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Gadren 04-19-07, 09:40 AM	Please review and critique this prestige class please! 4/25/07: UPDATE: Updated the prestige class based on input I've rceived on multiple boards. 5/07: UPDATE: This class was declared one of though co-winners of the "Multiclass This!" Prestige Class Design Contest on the Nifty Boards. Treeshield Clan Sentinel Deep in the forest of Vyalia dwells the Treeshield clan, a family of wood elves rumored to be blessed by Corellon Larethian himself. For millennia, the Treeshield Sentinels - an elite caste of the clan - has defended the forest with its unique mix of forestry, wizardry, and weapon mastery. The easiest and far most common way to join clan Treeshield is to be born into it. However, it is rare, though not unprecedented, for membership to be offered to those who prove their bravery and loyalty to the clan. A member of the Treeshield clan must be a wood elf or a fey creature, though other sub-races of elves, some humans, and even a tall fellow halfling have been inducted during the Clan’s long history by undergoing the Ritual of the Sylvan Heart. Ritual of the Sylvan Heart This ritual must be performed in the Grove of Ilsundal, a coexistent pocket plane in the forest of Vyalia that can only be reached with a Treeshield elder as a guide. In this grove lies the sacred, sentient, giant oak named Ilsundal, which holds a fragment of Corellon Larethian’s divine spark. All members of the Treeshield Clan are mystically connected to this tree, and its golden resin has mystical properties used both to unlock the powers of the Treeshield Sentinels and to perform the Ritual of the Sylvan Heart. The ritual must be performed by a member of the Treeshield clan able to cast 4th level druid or ranger spells. The recipient must be any race other than wood elf, who drinks a cup of pure Ilsundal resin, and willingly fails a DC 20 Fort save. If the recipient is evil, he immediately dies and is consumed by fire, leaving only ash similar to that of a disintegration spell. Otherwise, the recipient goes into a coma for one week while slowly dissolving into a pool of 5000 gp worth of special oils. (The recipient always has some sort of personal vision during the process.) At the end of the coma, he reforms and is treated as if he had died and been resurrected by a reincarnate spell as a wood elf, accept he retains his original size category and looks identical to before the ritual. (For example, a human would be treated in all respects as a wood elf from this point forward, but would still look human.) Adaptation: The Treeshield Clan could be replaced by any other elf clan devoted to an elf god in your campaign setting. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86409.jpg Treeshield Clan Sentinel Hit Die: d8. Requirements To qualify to become a Treeshield Clan Sentinel, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Non-evil Deity: Corellon Larethian Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells Special: Must have Combat Style class ability Must be a member of the Treeshield elf clan. http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/115/a/c/Table_by_gadren.jpg Class Skills The Treeshield clan sentinel's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are Class Features of the Treeshield Clan Sentinel prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Treeshield clan sentinel is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields. The Sentinel can cast spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a sentinel wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the arcane spell in question has a somatic component (most do). Spellcasting: At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if you had also gained a level in the ranger class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit the ranger class gives you. Also, at every odd-numbered Treeshield Clan Sentinel level, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of Treeshield Clan Sentinel to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before he became a Treeshield Clan Sentinel, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Treeshield Clan Sentinel for the purpose of determining spells per day. Arcane Forestry (Su): Beginning at 1st level, when you cast any spell from the ranger list or your arcane list, you may use your ranger casting level or your arcane casting level, whichever is higher. For example, a Wizard 3 / Ranger 2 / Treeshield Clan Sentinel 3 would normally have a ranger caster level of 2, and a wizard caster level of 5, but could choose to cast ranger spells as a level 5 caster. Furthermore, you may use your wisdom score in place of your intelligence or charisma score for your arcane casting attribute. Treeshield Ceremony: When a member of the Treeshield clan is inducted as sentinel, a ceremony is conducted at the base of a giant sacred oak tree in a secret grove blessed by Corellon Larethian himself. The sentinel is given 9 vials of sacred tree resin during this ceremony. Each time he levels up, he must use one vial’s worth or resin with other rare ingredients (costing 1000 gp) to make special oil that the sentinel uses in a ceremony dedicated to Corellon Larethian. These ingredients are nearly identical to the material components used for a reincarnation spell, and can be acquired the same way. Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, Treeshield clan sentinel’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery as his style, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If he selected two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. As before, the benefits of the chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. If a Treeshield clan sentinel already has improved combat style from a different class, or later gains the class ability again (for example, the character continues progressing in the ranger class), he automatically gains combat style mastery (as described under the ranger base class) instead. Spell Secret (Su): Thanks to your facility for blending ranger and arcane magic, you learn some of your ranger spells as arcane spells. If you cast spells spontaneously, you gain additional spells known. If you prepare arcane spells, these spells may immediately be scribed into your spellbook for free. These spells must be drawn from the ranger spell list and are thereafter treated as part of your arcane class spell list. At 3rd level, you add two 1st level ranger spells to your arcane class’s spell list. At 5th level, you add two 2nd level ranger spells to your arcane class’s spell list. At 7th level, you add two 3rd level ranger spells to your arcane class’s spell list. At 9th level, you add two 4th level ranger spells to your arcane class’s spell list. Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level, a Treeshield clan sentinel gains evasion. If exposed to any effect that normally allows her to attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage, she takes no damage with a successful saving throw. The evasion ability can only be used if the sentinel is wearing light armor or no armor. Swift Casting (Su): Beginning at 4th level, you can cast a spell as a swift action in any round that you make a melee or ranged weapon attack, as if you had applied the Quicken Spell feat to them (but without any change in level). The maximum level of a spell you can quicken in this way is equal to 1/4 your class level (rounded up). This ability can be used up to a number of times per day equal to your class level. Imbued Combat Style (Su): At 6th level, a Treeshield clan sentinel’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) takes on a magical touch. As a free action, the Treeshield sentinel can expend a prepared spell or unused spell slot. For that round, the Sentinel gains a bonus to base attack equal to the level of the spell, which might also grant extra attacks. This bonus only applies when the Sentinel is actively using his combat style.For example, a sentinel with a base attack of +9 with the archery combat style could expend a 2nd level spell to raise his base attack bonus to +11 for one round, granting him an extra attack when using the full attack action. The sentinel's base attack cannot be raised above +20. However, if this ability would give a temporary base attack of +21 or higher, the sentinel gets a competence bonus to his attack rolls equal to the difference, an extra attack (at a -15 penalty) when taking the full attack action, and the option to take five shots with the Manyshot feat at a -10 penalty. In addition, the Treeshield clan sentinel gains one of the following benefits from Imbued Combat Style: . If he selected archery as his style, he gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted. . If he selected two-weapon combat, he gains the ability to place spells into his melee weapons. Each morning, he chooses two melee weapons in his possession. For the next 24 hours, these weapons are considered spell-storing weapons. As before, the benefits of the chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 8th level, a Treeshield clan sentinel may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him. Camouflage (Ex): A Treeshield clan sentinel of 9th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment. Imbued Combat Mastery (Su): At 10th level, the Treeshield clan sentinel perfects his magical combat style, providing two bonuses. First, the DC and caster level of any spell the sentinel casts in the same round he make use of his combat style (such as making a full attack with two weapons) gets a +2 bonus. Second, the bonus to base attack gained from expending a spell via Imbued Combat Style is doubled. Original version: Adaptation: The Treeshield Clan could be replaced by any other elf clan devoted to an elf god in your campaign setting. Treeshield Clan Sentinel Hit Die: d8. Requirements To qualify to become a Treeshield Clan Sentinel, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Non-evil Deity: Corellon Larethian Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells Special: Must have Combat Style class ability Must be a member of the Treeshield elf clan. http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs15/f/2007/109/7/a/Table_by_gadren.jpg Class Skills The arcane archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are Class Features of the arcane archer prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane archer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields. The Sentinel can cast spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a sentinel wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the arcane spell in question has a somatic component (most do). Spellcasting: At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if you had also gained a level in the ranger class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit the ranger class gives you. Also, at every odd-numbered Treeshield Clan Sentinel level, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of Treeshield Clan Sentinel to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before he became a Treeshield Clan Sentinel, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Treeshield Clan Sentinel for the purpose of determining spells per day. Arcane Forestry (Su): Beginning at 1st level, when you cast any spell from the ranger list or your arcane list, you may use your ranger casting level or your arcane casting level, whichever is higher. For example, a Wizard 3 / Ranger 2 / Treeshield Clan Sentinel 3 would normally have a ranger caster level of 2, and a wizard caster level of 5, but could choose to cast ranger spells as a level 5 caster. Treeshield Ceremony: When a member of the Treeshield clan is inducted as sentinel, a ceremony is conducted at the base of a giant sacred oak tree in a secret grove blessed by Corellon Larethian himself. The sentinel is given 9 vials of sacred tree resin during this ceremony. Each time he levels up, he must use one vial’s worth or resin with other rare ingredients (costing 1000 gp) to make special oil that the sentinel uses in a ceremony dedicated to Corellon Larethian. Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, Treeshield clan sentinel’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery as his style, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If he selected two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. As before, the benefits of the chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. If a Treeshield clan sentinel already has improved combat style from a different class, or later gains the class ability again (for example, the character continues progressing in the ranger class), he automatically gains combat style mastery (as described under the ranger base class) instead. Spell Secret: Thanks to your facility for blending ranger and arcane magic, you learn some of your ranger spells as arcane spells. If you cast spells spontaneously, you gain additional spells known. If you prepare arcane spells, these spells may immediately be scribed into your spellbook for free. These spells must be drawn from the ranger spell list and are thereafter treated as part of your arcane class spell list. At 3rd level, you add one 1st level ranger spell to your arcane class’s spell list. At 5th level, you add one 2nd level ranger spell to your arcane class’s spell list. At 7th level, you add one 3rd level ranger spell to your arcane class’s spell list. At 9th level, you add one 4th level ranger spell to your arcane class’s spell list. Swift Casting (Su): Beginning at 4th level, you can cast a spell as a swift action in any round that you make a melee or ranged weapon attack, as if you had applied the Quicken Spell feat to them (but without any change in level). The maximum level of a spell you can quicken in this way is equal to 1/4 your class level (rounded up). This ability can be used up to a number of times per day equal to your class level. Imbued Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a Treeshield clan sentinel’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) takes on a magical touch. If he selected archery as his style, he gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted. If he selected two-weapon combat, he gains the ability to place spells into his melee weapons. Each morning, he chooses two melee weapons in his possession. For the next 24 hours, these weapons are considered spell-storing weapons. As before, the benefits of the chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 8th level, a Treeshield clan sentinel may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him. Camouflage (Ex): A Treeshield clan sentinel of 10th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.
Gadren 04-19-07, 11:21 PM	Sample Encounter Treeshield clan sentinels are mostly found in the forests of Vyalia, protecting the ancestral home of their Clan. However, they occasionally can be found away from their home, carrying out some long-term mission abroad. Elves and fey begin one step nearer to helpful than normal while dealing with a Treeshield sentinel, while drow, hobgoblins, and orcs begin one step close to hostile. EL 18: Captain Duarion Starbow is normally second in command of the sentinels, but has traveled far from home in search of Prince Galadren Treeshield, who went missing months ago. He has discovered that the prince is being held prisoner by a powerful orc tribe and its half-fiend shaman chieftain, who has been trying to extract the power of Ilsundal from the prince. Starbow’s contingent of rangers and sentinels has been wiped out, and he approaches the PCs for assistance in the rescue and revenge. Duarion Starbow CR 16 Male wood elf ranger 2/wizard 4/Treeshield clan sentinel 10 N Medium humanoid Init: +1; Senses: Listen +24, Spot +24 Languages: Elven, Common, Sylvan ________________________________________ ______ AC 31, touch 17, flat-footed 24; (+7 Dex, +8 armor, +6 shield) hp 138 (16 HD) = 112 hp +26 temporary hp Resist: evasion Fort +9, Ref +18, Will +14 ________________________________________ ______ Speed: 40 ft. land and swim (8 squares), 50 ft. fly (good; 8 squares) Melee: Sylvan Scimitar +20/+15/+10 (1d6-1/19-20) Ranged: Cuen’Giliath +28/+23/+18 or +26/+26/+21/+16 (1d8+13+1d6 frost/x3) Base Atk +14; Grp +17 Special Actions: Swift Casting, Imbued Combat Mastery Combat Gear: Sylvan Scimitar (DMG 229) and Cuen’Giliath (+1 Exit-Wounding (CW) Composite Longbow of Collision (MIC) with a +3 strength rating) Ranger Spell Prepared (CL 13): 3rd— arrow storm x2 2nd—cure light wounds x2 1st— guided shot, hawkeye Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 13): 5th— heart of fire+, overland flight+ 4th— cure serious wounds, deeper darkvision+, heart of earth+ 3rd— frostball, frost arrow, keen edge, greater magic weapon+, heart of water+ 2nd— barkskin, glitterdust, heart of air+, see invisibility, sonic weapon 1st— arrow mind, true strike x5 0th— detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic + Already cast, using a bead of karma to increase the caster level by 4. ________________________________________ ________ Abilities: Str 16, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 21, Cha 14 SQ: Fast Healing 3, Fire Resistance 20, Arcane Forestry, Evasion, Swift Casting, Woodland Stride, Camouflage, Imbued Combat Mastery, Wild Empathy Feats: Energy Substitution (Frost), Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Practiced Spell Caster (Wizard), Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Track, True Believer (Corellon Larethian) Skills: Concentration +5, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +12, Handle Animal +10, Hide +15, Jump +13, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Knowledge (Nature) +5, Listen +24, Move Silently +15, Spellcraft +15, Spot +24, Survival +15, Swim +11 Possessions: +5 darkwood buckler, Boots of Elvenkind (DMG 250), Cloak of Elvenkind (DMG 253), Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC), Gloves of Dexterity +6 (DMG 257), Greater Bracers of Archery (DMG 250), Heward’s Handy Haversack (DMG 259), Lesser Crystal of Frost Assault (MIC), Millennial Chainmail (CD 98), Periapt of Wisdom +4 (DMG), Strand of Prayer Beads (DMG 267), 50 arrows, 50 cold iron arrows, 50 silver arrows, 20 +1 drow bane arrows, 20 +1 ghost touch arrows Spellbook: spells prepared plus 0— All; 1st— burning hands, charm person, color spray, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, detect undead, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, sleep, Tenser's floating disk; 2nd—alter self, blindness/deafness, blur, cat’s grace, darkvision, fog cloud, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, Leomund’s trap, locate object, magic mouth, misdirection, resist energy; 3rd—fly, haste, invisibility sphere, lightning bolt, protection from energy, slow, suggestion; 4th—bestow curse, greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain; 5th—false vision, feeblemind, mirage arcana, seeming ________________________________________ _________ Hook: "The power of Ilsundal flows through us."
Nalreth 04-20-07, 12:09 AM	Given the heightened focus on casting, I would suggest changing the base attack bonus from Good to Average, and also, to avoid the chance that it is overlooked, remove the ability to cast arcane spells in light armor from the Weapon and Armor proficiency, change the Weapon and Armor Proficiency block to say None Gained, and add Armored Mage as a first level class feature. Normally that is a class feature of the warmage, but if you rewrite it to apply it only to the TCS for the purposes of this PrC, it will meet the same ends that you are trying to reach with how you originally wrote it. Also, why isn't there some sort of materials cost for entering the Sentinels? It seems odd that with other PrCs that have financial costs for leveling (such as Green Star Adepts or Mages of the Arcane Order), which also have an entry cost. you seem to be able to freely enter the PrC and only have to pay to raise your rank. Might I suggest a quest gathering the nonperishable elements for all the resin, as well as buying specially prepared vials (300 GP) that the resin concoctions will go inside, so all you need are the more volatile ingredients at each level that are at the 1000 GP value? Just a thought.
Gadren 04-20-07, 12:35 AM	Given the heightened focus on casting, I would suggest changing the base attack bonus from Good to Average, and also, to avoid the chance that it is overlooked, remove the ability to cast arcane spells in light armor from the Weapon and Armor proficiency, change the Weapon and Armor Proficiency block to say None Gained, and add Armored Mage as a first level class feature. Normally that is a class feature of the warmage, but if you rewrite it to apply it only to the TCS for the purposes of this PrC, it will meet the same ends that you are trying to reach with how you originally wrote it. Also, why isn't there some sort of materials cost for entering the Sentinels? It seems odd that with other PrCs that have financial costs for leveling (such as Green Star Adepts or Mages of the Arcane Order), which also have an entry cost. you seem to be able to freely enter the PrC and only have to pay to raise your rank. Might I suggest a quest gathering the nonperishable elements for all the resin, as well as buying specially prepared vials (300 GP) that the resin concoctions will go inside, so all you need are the more volatile ingredients at each level that are at the 1000 GP value? Just a thought. Well, the focus is supposed to be on combat, so I really dont want to lower BAB or armor; I would rather remove other abilities or increase the leveling cost. But he only gains arcane caster 5/10 levels, and ranger casting is already designed for a full BAB class, with a caster level that only goes up every other level as well. So effectively (IMO) its the same (or less than) as gaining one casting level each level, like Abjurant Champion. If you think its overpower, what powers do you think I should remove instead of BAB or armor? Good point on the entry fee. How about setting it at 3000 gp, in addition to the 1000 gp per level, since you (or anyone else?) seems to thinks its overpowered as is?
Nalreth 04-20-07, 01:05 AM	I wasn't suggesting removing the armor ability for arcane casting, just changing how you have it written in your write-up for more clarity. In re-examination, I can see that it's not overpowered given the really narrow entry into this PrC, just awkward in how spellcasting is given. The way that you're raising the arcane spellcasting levels every other level but then adding ranger spells to the arcane spell list with Spell Secret seems strange. Might I instead suggest either reversing the spell level increases, or changing the Spell Secret to add arcane spells that you know or are in your book to your ranger spell list?
LordArchaon 04-20-07, 01:56 PM	I really think it's very good! Don't see anything that should be changed. It's a good power level. Maybe you could just rename Spell Secret in order not to get confused with the Wu Jen class feature, which is different from yours.
Gadren 04-20-07, 02:23 PM	I really think it's very good! Don't see anything that should be changed. It's a good power level. Maybe you could just rename Spell Secret in order not to get confused with the Wu Jen class feature, which is different from yours. Thankyou! I actually took the name "spell secret" from the Lyric Thaumaturge prestige class, where it works almost identical to what I have here.
Fingers Boggis 04-21-07, 10:00 AM	Thought I'd repay the favour after you commented on mine :) My first thought would be that this PrC almost completely replaces the Arcane Archer PrC. I'm concerned at the full BAB, even following the comments you've made already I'd be tempted to drop it medium. I would say its powerful but not overpowered, and I could see myself playing one which I guess is always a sign its a reasonable PrC Fingers
Gadren 04-21-07, 02:09 PM	Thought I'd repay the favour after you commented on mine :) My first thought would be that this PrC almost completely replaces the Arcane Archer PrC. I'm concerned at the full BAB, even following the comments you've made already I'd be tempted to drop it medium. I would say its powerful but not overpowered, and I could see myself playing one which I guess is always a sign its a reasonable PrC Fingers The Arcane Archer is an incredibly weak PrC - a common complaint on the boards. It is unusual for anyone to dip more than two levels into AA., especially now that there are classes like Abjurant Champion or Spellwarp Sniper. But, its a moot point, because the only ability TCS has in common with AA is imbue arrow (if TCS is taken by someone with archery combat style). I mean, would you still really want to take all ten levels of this class if it had -3 BAB???
Tuhljin 04-21-07, 07:57 PM	A very interesting concept - I like it. Before we get into balance and such there is one thing to correct. Arcane Forestry (Su): Beginning at 1st level, when you cast any spell from the ranger list or your arcane list, you may use your ranger casting level or your arcane casting level, whichever is higher. For example, a Wizard 3 / Ranger 2 / Treeshield Clan Sentinel 3 would normally have a ranger caster level of 2, and a wizard caster level of 5, but could choose to cast ranger spells as a level 5 caster. The ability itself isn't bad, but isn't the example wrong? You gain a caster level for ranger with every level of this PrC, so the character's Ranger caster level would already be 5 (2 from Ranger, 3 from the PrC). Other nitpicking details I would consider: - Imbued Combat Style: Make it so that, in the case of melee weapons, they are only considered spell storing when in the hands of the Sentinel. If someone else wields them, the spell stored isn't lost but it can't be activated and no one else can put a spell in them. - Spell Secret: Ranger spells include cure spells. It might be a bit much to give a sorcerer cure moderate wounds, for example. Maybe exclude those from the list? Or do you think it won't be too bad since you only get arcane caster levels every other level? - Swift Casting: Spells that can be affected by this shouldn't have a cast time that is normally more than 1 standard action. - Camouflage: It's nice to pick up an ability you'd otherwise lose, but if it's not overpowering I'd prefer to see this moved down just a little bit in level since it's not really that powerful for a capstone and put a new, hopefully unique, ability in at 10th. Perhaps you could move Camouflage to 8th and move Woodland Stride to 5th.
Gadren 04-21-07, 10:19 PM	A very interesting concept - I like it. Before we get into balance and such there is one thing to correct. The ability itself isn't bad, but isn't the example wrong? You gain a caster level for ranger with every level of this PrC, so the character's Ranger caster level would already be 5 (2 from Ranger, 3 from the PrC). Rangers' casting level is only half their class level. Other nitpicking details I would consider: - Imbued Combat Style: Make it so that, in the case of melee weapons, they are only considered spell storing when in the hands of the Sentinel. If someone else wields them, the spell stored isn't lost but it can't be activated and no one else can put a spell in them. This is what I intended, I shall go back and clarify it soon. - Spell Secret: Ranger spells include cure spells. It might be a bit much to give a sorcerer cure moderate wounds, for example. Maybe exclude those from the list? Or do you think it won't be too bad since you only get arcane caster levels every other level? note only do you only get arcane caster levels every other level, but rangers gain cure spells a level late anyways. So a sorc with casting progression stinted to half who can cast cure serious as a fourth level spell doesnt seem all that bad. - Swift Casting: Spells that can be affected by this shouldn't have a cast time that is normally more than 1 standard action. Aye, also this is what I intended. - Camouflage: It's nice to pick up an ability you'd otherwise lose, but if it's not overpowering I'd prefer to see this moved down just a little bit in level since it's not really that powerful for a capstone and put a new, hopefully unique, ability in at 10th. Perhaps you could move Camouflage to 8th and move Woodland Stride to 5th. I shall see if I can come up with something else.
Tuhljin 04-22-07, 01:27 AM	Rangers' casting level is only half their class level. Oh right, forgot about that. :embarrass
Gadren 04-26-07, 02:24 AM	I have updated the class. I made the following changes: -Fixed minor errors. -Added flavor text -Doubled number of spells learned via Spell Secret -Added evasion at 3rd level -Improved Imbued Combat Style -Lowered camouflage ability one level -Added Imbued Combat Mastery as a 10th level capstone.
Fingers Boggis 04-26-07, 06:17 PM	I still like it, the changes to Imbued combat style make me more concerned about the full BAB, but I think I already know what you're going to say in answer to that one :) so there is little point in me saying more there. I've been considering making a ranger/scout archer for an upcoming game but I think I might change my concept a little and shoot for this instead. If I get it rolling I'll give you some in-game feedback Fingers
Tuhljin 04-26-07, 08:09 PM	Second, the bonus to base attack gained from expending a spell via Imbued Combat Style is doubled. This part seems a bit much, in my opinion.
Gadren 05-19-07, 08:27 PM	This part seems a bit much, in my opinion. Well, I was getting alot of complaints the its "capstone" ability wasn't powerful enough, so that is why I made it as it is now. Do you think 50% extra would be better than double? They way I figure it though, even with this ability, a 20th level character with 10 levels of TSCS would have to sacrifice a 7th level spell to gain +14 to attack for one round and one extra attack that round. That bonus for one round doesn't seem unreasonable for a 7th level spell, does it? Especially compared to something like delayed blast fireball.
Dyne 05-19-07, 10:35 PM	I've only skimmed it, but I love the concept. I think it would go very well alongside my Elven Songweaver (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846020) PrC. EDIT: The only thing that might worry me is the Swift Casting ability. I might change it to usable once per day for every two levels in the PrC, instead of once per day for every level. Imbued Combat Mastery doesn't really bother me; the Arcane Strike feat from CW would probably be better than Imbued Combat Style otherwise (Arcane Strike gives +1 attack/level of spell used, and +1d4/spell level damage).
rone_leah 05-19-07, 11:52 PM	The only problem I have with the class is that it takes another class away from me that I could go a straight 20 lvls in. It just makes a ranger equal to a gish, and that means a viable threat at higher levels. And to top it off it blows my ranger prc out of the water. Blight hunter (shameless plug)
Gadren 05-20-07, 05:22 AM	The only problem I have with the class is that it takes another class away from me that I could go a straight 20 lvls in. It just makes a ranger equal to a gish, and that means a viable threat at higher levels. And to top it off it blows my ranger prc out of the water. Blight hunter (shameless plug) So, your objection is that it makes rangers more desirable..?
rone_leah 05-20-07, 04:20 PM	No I have objections to the class, just my group has a problem with me not having a full classed character expect a druid.
Gadren 05-20-07, 05:07 PM	No I have objections to the class, just my group has a problem with me not having a full classed character expect a druid. I don't understand why people take issues with most 3.5 characters being multiclassed. Its the way the system was designed. I get so annoyed when people are like "well if you want to play a archer then just play a straight ranger, because multiclassing to be better at it means your a munchkin."
Gadren 05-20-07, 08:03 PM	Some play-testing brought to my attention that the wood elf intelligence penalty makes this class hard to play. As a result, I have made a new addition to the Arcane Forestry ability that allows substitution of wisdom for an arcane casting stat.
Tuhljin 05-20-07, 09:15 PM	Well, I was getting alot of complaints the its "capstone" ability wasn't powerful enough, so that is why I made it as it is now. Do you think 50% extra would be better than double? They way I figure it though, even with this ability, a 20th level character with 10 levels of TSCS would have to sacrifice a 7th level spell to gain +14 to attack for one round and one extra attack that round. That bonus for one round doesn't seem unreasonable for a 7th level spell, does it? Especially compared to something like delayed blast fireball. I suppose it may not be as powerful as I was thinking at the time. Only playtesting can tell. Great work with this class, by the way. :)
Gadren 05-21-07, 12:42 AM	I suppose it may not be as powerful as I was thinking at the time. Only playtesting can tell. Great work with this class, by the way. :) Thanks!
Gadren 05-21-07, 03:03 AM	Added a sample encounter with a sample Treeshield Clan Sentinel
LordArchaon 06-04-07, 09:25 AM	Hello! I see you already won some contest, and I was sure about that... But without knowing, I was going to "invite you" to The Official Class Cookie Contest II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=797241) and in particular the new PrC Contest, that needs 6 more participants to begin! So why not? :)
Gadren 06-20-07, 02:39 AM	By the way, another race that qualifies easily for this class besides wood elves are the "wood sprites" I made: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=854166