Assassin revision P.E.A.C.H. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assassin revision P.E.A.C.H. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
imakuni67
09-11-07, 12:31 PM Here is my take on the assassin:
Requirements:
Alignment: Any nongood
Skills: Craft: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Sleight of Hand 2 ranks.
Game Rule Information
The Assassin has the following game statistics.
Hit Die: d6
Saving Throws: As rogue
Base Attack Bonus: As rogue
Class Skills: The Assassin's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge: Local (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Table: Assassin
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak Attack +1d6, Death Attack, Poison Use
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Resist Poison, Uncanny Dodge
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Improved Poison Use
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Death Blow, Sneak Attack +2d6
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Improved Uncanny Dodge
6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Resist Death, Improved Death Attack
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak Attack +3d6
8th +6 +2 +6 +2 Hide in plain sight
9th +6 +3 +6 +3 Evasion
10th +7 +3 +7 +3 Crippling Strike, Sneak Attack +4d6

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Assassins are proficient with the bolas, blowgun (any), crossbow (hand, light, or heavy), dagger (any type, including barbed), dart, kukri, net, rapier, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), and short sword. Assassins are proficient with light armor but not with shields.
Spells:
Beginning at 1st level, an assassin gains the ability to cast a number of arcane spells. To cast a spell, an assassin must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so an assassin with an Intelligence of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Assassin bonus spells are based on Intelligence, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the assassin’s Intelligence bonus. When the assassin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level.
The assassin’s spell list appears below. An assassin casts spells just as a bard does and thus suffers no arcane failure while in light or no armor.
Upon reaching 6th level, at every even-numbered level after that (8th and 10th), an assassin can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level assassin spell the assassin can cast. An assassin may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for that level.
Sneak Attack:
As the rogue ability.
Death Attack:
If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.
If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.
Poison Use:
Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a weapon or when attacking with a weapon.
Resist Poison:
Due to frequent expose to poisons and knowledge of how they work, an Assassin gets a +4 save bonus against poison.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex):
Starting at 2nd level, an assassin retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).
Improved Poison Use:
An assassin can quickly and skillfully apply poison, doing so as a move action rather than a standard action.
Death Blow:
An assassin is always ready for an opportunity to kill. An assassin may make a coup de grace as a standard action rather than a full-round action.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex):
At 5th level, an assassin can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the assassin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the assassin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).
If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
Resist Death (Ex):
An assassin is so familiar with dealing death that he is aware of how fragile his own life is. An assassin gets a +2 insight bonus on saves versus death effects.
Improved Death Attack:
Any creature that succeeds a saving throw against an assassin's death attack is stunned for 1 round.
Hide in Plain Sight (Su):
At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.
Evasion (Ex):
At 9th level and higher, an assassin can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion. If an assassin already has evasion from another source, he gains Improved Evasion instead.
Crippling Strike (Ex):
An assassin with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.
Spells:
For spells per day and spells known see the tables on this page. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm)
Spell List:

1st Level
disguise self, detect poison, expeditious retreat, feather fall, ghost sound, hold portal, jump, mage hand, obscuring mist, silent image, sleep, true strike.

2nd Level
alter self, blur, cat’s grace, darkness, fox’s cunning, knock, invisibility, minor image, pass without trace, spider climb.

3rd Level
dark vision, deathknell, deep slumber, deeper darkness, hold person, major image, misdirection, nondetection, silence.

4th Level
blacklight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, dimension door, freedom of movement, glibness, greater invisibility, locate creature, modify memory, poison.

Notes on what I changed and why:

Requirements: Added some ranks in craft: poisonmaking for flavor and practicality. Quick Draw seems like a good addition as it works well with making sneak/death attacks out of combat (which is what an assassin would rather do). Changed the alignment to any nongood, which will probably start yet another debate...

Skills: Skills are the bread and butter of an assassin's abilities. The first thing is that I bumped it up to 6 per level like many other rogue-like classes have. Also, I changed some skills around as you might have noticed swapping disable device for knowledge (local).

Proficiency:
Added a few trappy weapons like bolas and the net.

Sneak Attack: I scaled it back a bit for power balance and an assassins reliance on death attack.

Resist Poison: It makes a lot more sense just to put it up front and get it out of the way. :P

Death Blow: Make sense, eh?

Resist Death: Very flavorful, too flavorful?

Improved death attack: A little hesitant about this one...

Evasion: Too good?

Crippling Strike: Seems a fitting capstone.

Spell list: The assassin should be good at three things, striking with the element of surprise, killing his contract (though it may be required to hamper them first), and running away/avoiding being found guilty. With those in mind I re-evaluated the spell list.

1st level: Added Expedious Retreat and Hold Portal as retreat spells and substituted Obscuring Mist for Silent Image. You can't make sneak or death attacks in the mist and Silent Image is a better toolbox.
2nd level: Added blindness/deafness as a hamper spell and knock for breaking in (or breaking out!). Illusionary script always seemed like a weird choice anyway and undetectable alignment isn't as useful with the class being any non-good now.
3rd level: Dark Vision seemed a no-brainer. Deathknell seemed better flavorwise than False Life for an Assassin, so I swapped the two. Major Image was added for it's minor version. Magic Circle was out and was too defensive for the Assassin to begin with (It's better to run and snipe than to take the chance of hand to hand combat). Hold person is another great hampering spell to add. Silence is a tri-fold spell offering quiet feat for you, hushed screams of your victim and hampering any spellcaster that gets in your way!
4th level: Unchanged.
3DJutsu
09-11-07, 12:54 PM Not too terribly fond of it, but thats mostly because Im content with the actual PrC from the DMG.

And 6 skill pts is a bit much considering the Asn gets spells.

Other than that it looks decent.
imakuni67
09-11-07, 05:33 PM Not too terribly fond of it, but thats mostly because Im content with the actual PrC from the DMG.

And 6 skill pts is a bit much considering the Asn gets spells.

Other than that it looks decent.

The Bard gets 6 skills and spells up to 6th level
Khatoblepas
09-11-07, 05:59 PM Crippling Strike (Ex):
An assassin with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.

This is... strong... you mean that the average TWF rogue type, getting on average 6 attacks per round can also deal 12 points of Strength damage per round? On average? Change it to a penalty, or make it only trigger on critical hits.
dman11235
09-11-07, 06:01 PM Crippling Strike (Ex)

A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.

This is no different. But I'm content with the DMG assassin.
Khatoblepas
09-11-07, 06:05 PM Ah, interesting. And really odd. In which case, nevermind. :)

It seems to lose +1d6 dice of Sneak Attack damage, to gain a few interesting class features. I like it.
imakuni67
09-11-07, 06:28 PM This is no different. But I'm content with the DMG assassin.

Crippling strike isn't game winning
3DJutsu
09-13-07, 01:39 AM The Bard gets 6 skills and spells up to 6th level

But does the Bard get Sneak Attack and other spiffy-sneaky things?
imakuni67
09-13-07, 03:43 PM The Bard gets Lore and lots of other class features via bardic music. This assassin gets a slower sneak attack progression to trade for the spells and other abilities.
aura888
09-13-07, 08:25 PM I'm sorry but you seem to have put "hide in plain sight" in your table but I can't find it anywhere. Hopefully for me I know what the ability does, but maybe some people don't.
3DJutsu
09-13-07, 08:26 PM That didn't answer the question.

Nevertheless, SA is a key ability for any sneaky class that uses it, gimping the progression of it simply to 'trade-off' for spells and other abilities doesn't make much sense, especially when your revision doesn't change much about the class.

The only real changes I see are a 10th level rogue ability, evasion, a free fear (death blow), and an ability to enhance your death attack should it fail.
Also, Assassins shouldn't be relying on Death Attack, once you use it, you really can't use it again for the rest of that combat, it's a very situational ability, which is why SA is there to help shore up the dmg output.

And the 6 skill points still seems a bit much, also, I'd put poison resistance back the way it was to prevent people from taking a double dip to get a +4 resist to poisons.
imakuni67
09-14-07, 10:46 AM I'm sorry but you seem to have put "hide in plain sight" in your table but I can't find it anywhere. Hopefully for me I know what the ability does, but maybe some people don't.

Whoops! (update):

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.
imakuni67
09-14-07, 10:57 AM Nevertheless, SA is a key ability for any sneaky class that uses it, gimping the progression of it simply to 'trade-off' for spells and other abilities doesn't make much sense, especially when your revision doesn't change much about the class.

How much did it really loose? Trading +1d6 over 10 levels seems fine to me if you are trading for 2 more skills and a few mid-power abilities.

The only real changes I see are a 10th level rogue ability, evasion, a free fear (death blow), and an ability to enhance your death attack should it fail.
Also, Assassins shouldn't be relying on Death Attack, once you use it, you really can't use it again for the rest of that combat, it's a very situational ability, which is why SA is there to help shore up the dmg output.

But if you set up a good enough Death Attack then there might not be a rest of combat.

And the 6 skill points still seems a bit much, also, I'd put poison resistance back the way it was to prevent people from taking a double dip to get a +4 resist to poisons.

6 points isn't too much, it's needed. An assassin needs ranks in a lot of different skills, every level. Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, and Open Lock. That's 6 right there! An assassin should be just as good as a skilled specialist as a Ranger or Bard, but obviously not as good as the Rogue. As for the poison dip you propose, if someone wants to do that they could just take the resist poison feat or great fortitude. +4 versus poison isn't game breaking and you'd honestly be better dipping 2 for Fighter to gain +3 foritude save and two bonus feats to boot. The assassin isn't a cheap dippy class. Death Attack is important and is class level based.
1 ton ghost
09-14-07, 01:05 PM i can appreciate the attempt, though it's not all for me. some of the changes you've made are well thought out and realistic so well done on that end.

-i'm of the opinion that alignment isn't that big a deal. non good works IMO, it's the acts that push you to evil
-wouldn't see Quick Draw and Craft Poison as requirements. they're not for everyone, you know? some assassins make do w/ buying poison and focusing ranged. Sleight of Hand is always an option for concealed weapons too. don't like being pigeonholed as one type of assassin or another. let your skill/feats combinations do the talking through your (Ex)
-Death Blow is an interesting idea. seems appropriate despite being rarely used. if the shoe fits...
-i hate losing extra Ranks in skills, but all the extra benefits, spells, attacks atone for it. i'd leave well enough alone here
-some of you spell recommendations are sound, Silent Image and Hold Portal particularly. i'd watch Blindness though, it's basically all over for target if they fail save.

overall, i like assassin (DMG) as is. i let my PC'/friends opt out on the alignment restriction and guild requirement though.
imakuni67
09-15-07, 01:35 PM Thanks for the input, 1 ton ghost! I think I'll swap out quick draw and craft: poisonmaking for 2 ranks in sleight of hand. I was warry of blindness as well, I think I'll swap/drop it.

*(update)*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
imakuni67 09-11-07, 12:31 PM	Here is my take on the assassin: Requirements: Alignment: Any nongood Skills: Craft: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Sleight of Hand 2 ranks. Game Rule Information The Assassin has the following game statistics. Hit Die: d6 Saving Throws: As rogue Base Attack Bonus: As rogue Class Skills: The Assassin's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge: Local (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier. Table: Assassin Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak Attack +1d6, Death Attack, Poison Use 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Resist Poison, Uncanny Dodge 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Improved Poison Use 4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Death Blow, Sneak Attack +2d6 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Improved Uncanny Dodge 6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Resist Death, Improved Death Attack 7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak Attack +3d6 8th +6 +2 +6 +2 Hide in plain sight 9th +6 +3 +6 +3 Evasion 10th +7 +3 +7 +3 Crippling Strike, Sneak Attack +4d6 Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Assassins are proficient with the bolas, blowgun (any), crossbow (hand, light, or heavy), dagger (any type, including barbed), dart, kukri, net, rapier, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), and short sword. Assassins are proficient with light armor but not with shields. Spells: Beginning at 1st level, an assassin gains the ability to cast a number of arcane spells. To cast a spell, an assassin must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so an assassin with an Intelligence of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Assassin bonus spells are based on Intelligence, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the assassin’s Intelligence bonus. When the assassin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level. The assassin’s spell list appears below. An assassin casts spells just as a bard does and thus suffers no arcane failure while in light or no armor. Upon reaching 6th level, at every even-numbered level after that (8th and 10th), an assassin can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level assassin spell the assassin can cast. An assassin may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for that level. Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability. Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack. Poison Use: Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a weapon or when attacking with a weapon. Resist Poison: Due to frequent expose to poisons and knowledge of how they work, an Assassin gets a +4 save bonus against poison. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, an assassin retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.) If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below). Improved Poison Use: An assassin can quickly and skillfully apply poison, doing so as a move action rather than a standard action. Death Blow: An assassin is always ready for an opportunity to kill. An assassin may make a coup de grace as a standard action rather than a full-round action. Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level, an assassin can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the assassin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the assassin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him). If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character. Resist Death (Ex): An assassin is so familiar with dealing death that he is aware of how fragile his own life is. An assassin gets a +2 insight bonus on saves versus death effects. Improved Death Attack: Any creature that succeeds a saving throw against an assassin's death attack is stunned for 1 round. Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow. Evasion (Ex): At 9th level and higher, an assassin can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion. If an assassin already has evasion from another source, he gains Improved Evasion instead. Crippling Strike (Ex): An assassin with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability. Spells: For spells per day and spells known see the tables on this page. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) Spell List: 1st Level disguise self, detect poison, expeditious retreat, feather fall, ghost sound, hold portal, jump, mage hand, obscuring mist, silent image, sleep, true strike. 2nd Level alter self, blur, cat’s grace, darkness, fox’s cunning, knock, invisibility, minor image, pass without trace, spider climb. 3rd Level dark vision, deathknell, deep slumber, deeper darkness, hold person, major image, misdirection, nondetection, silence. 4th Level blacklight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, dimension door, freedom of movement, glibness, greater invisibility, locate creature, modify memory, poison. Notes on what I changed and why: Requirements: Added some ranks in craft: poisonmaking for flavor and practicality. Quick Draw seems like a good addition as it works well with making sneak/death attacks out of combat (which is what an assassin would rather do). Changed the alignment to any nongood, which will probably start yet another debate... Skills: Skills are the bread and butter of an assassin's abilities. The first thing is that I bumped it up to 6 per level like many other rogue-like classes have. Also, I changed some skills around as you might have noticed swapping disable device for knowledge (local). Proficiency: Added a few trappy weapons like bolas and the net. Sneak Attack: I scaled it back a bit for power balance and an assassins reliance on death attack. Resist Poison: It makes a lot more sense just to put it up front and get it out of the way. :P Death Blow: Make sense, eh? Resist Death: Very flavorful, too flavorful? Improved death attack: A little hesitant about this one... Evasion: Too good? Crippling Strike: Seems a fitting capstone. Spell list: The assassin should be good at three things, striking with the element of surprise, killing his contract (though it may be required to hamper them first), and running away/avoiding being found guilty. With those in mind I re-evaluated the spell list. 1st level: Added Expedious Retreat and Hold Portal as retreat spells and substituted Obscuring Mist for Silent Image. You can't make sneak or death attacks in the mist and Silent Image is a better toolbox. 2nd level: Added blindness/deafness as a hamper spell and knock for breaking in (or breaking out!). Illusionary script always seemed like a weird choice anyway and undetectable alignment isn't as useful with the class being any non-good now. 3rd level: Dark Vision seemed a no-brainer. Deathknell seemed better flavorwise than False Life for an Assassin, so I swapped the two. Major Image was added for it's minor version. Magic Circle was out and was too defensive for the Assassin to begin with (It's better to run and snipe than to take the chance of hand to hand combat). Hold person is another great hampering spell to add. Silence is a tri-fold spell offering quiet feat for you, hushed screams of your victim and hampering any spellcaster that gets in your way! 4th level: Unchanged.
3DJutsu 09-11-07, 12:54 PM	Not too terribly fond of it, but thats mostly because Im content with the actual PrC from the DMG. And 6 skill pts is a bit much considering the Asn gets spells. Other than that it looks decent.
imakuni67 09-11-07, 05:33 PM	Not too terribly fond of it, but thats mostly because Im content with the actual PrC from the DMG. And 6 skill pts is a bit much considering the Asn gets spells. Other than that it looks decent. The Bard gets 6 skills and spells up to 6th level
Khatoblepas 09-11-07, 05:59 PM	Crippling Strike (Ex): An assassin with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability. This is... strong... you mean that the average TWF rogue type, getting on average 6 attacks per round can also deal 12 points of Strength damage per round? On average? Change it to a penalty, or make it only trigger on critical hits.
dman11235 09-11-07, 06:01 PM	Crippling Strike (Ex) A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability. This is no different. But I'm content with the DMG assassin.
Khatoblepas 09-11-07, 06:05 PM	Ah, interesting. And really odd. In which case, nevermind. :) It seems to lose +1d6 dice of Sneak Attack damage, to gain a few interesting class features. I like it.
imakuni67 09-11-07, 06:28 PM	This is no different. But I'm content with the DMG assassin. Crippling strike isn't game winning
3DJutsu 09-13-07, 01:39 AM	The Bard gets 6 skills and spells up to 6th level But does the Bard get Sneak Attack and other spiffy-sneaky things?
imakuni67 09-13-07, 03:43 PM	The Bard gets Lore and lots of other class features via bardic music. This assassin gets a slower sneak attack progression to trade for the spells and other abilities.
aura888 09-13-07, 08:25 PM	I'm sorry but you seem to have put "hide in plain sight" in your table but I can't find it anywhere. Hopefully for me I know what the ability does, but maybe some people don't.
3DJutsu 09-13-07, 08:26 PM	That didn't answer the question. Nevertheless, SA is a key ability for any sneaky class that uses it, gimping the progression of it simply to 'trade-off' for spells and other abilities doesn't make much sense, especially when your revision doesn't change much about the class. The only real changes I see are a 10th level rogue ability, evasion, a free fear (death blow), and an ability to enhance your death attack should it fail. Also, Assassins shouldn't be relying on Death Attack, once you use it, you really can't use it again for the rest of that combat, it's a very situational ability, which is why SA is there to help shore up the dmg output. And the 6 skill points still seems a bit much, also, I'd put poison resistance back the way it was to prevent people from taking a double dip to get a +4 resist to poisons.
imakuni67 09-14-07, 10:46 AM	I'm sorry but you seem to have put "hide in plain sight" in your table but I can't find it anywhere. Hopefully for me I know what the ability does, but maybe some people don't. Whoops! (update): Hide in Plain Sight (Su) At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.
imakuni67 09-14-07, 10:57 AM	Nevertheless, SA is a key ability for any sneaky class that uses it, gimping the progression of it simply to 'trade-off' for spells and other abilities doesn't make much sense, especially when your revision doesn't change much about the class. How much did it really loose? Trading +1d6 over 10 levels seems fine to me if you are trading for 2 more skills and a few mid-power abilities. The only real changes I see are a 10th level rogue ability, evasion, a free fear (death blow), and an ability to enhance your death attack should it fail. Also, Assassins shouldn't be relying on Death Attack, once you use it, you really can't use it again for the rest of that combat, it's a very situational ability, which is why SA is there to help shore up the dmg output. But if you set up a good enough Death Attack then there might not be a rest of combat. And the 6 skill points still seems a bit much, also, I'd put poison resistance back the way it was to prevent people from taking a double dip to get a +4 resist to poisons. 6 points isn't too much, it's needed. An assassin needs ranks in a lot of different skills, every level. Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, and Open Lock. That's 6 right there! An assassin should be just as good as a skilled specialist as a Ranger or Bard, but obviously not as good as the Rogue. As for the poison dip you propose, if someone wants to do that they could just take the resist poison feat or great fortitude. +4 versus poison isn't game breaking and you'd honestly be better dipping 2 for Fighter to gain +3 foritude save and two bonus feats to boot. The assassin isn't a cheap dippy class. Death Attack is important and is class level based.
1 ton ghost 09-14-07, 01:05 PM	i can appreciate the attempt, though it's not all for me. some of the changes you've made are well thought out and realistic so well done on that end. -i'm of the opinion that alignment isn't that big a deal. non good works IMO, it's the acts that push you to evil -wouldn't see Quick Draw and Craft Poison as requirements. they're not for everyone, you know? some assassins make do w/ buying poison and focusing ranged. Sleight of Hand is always an option for concealed weapons too. don't like being pigeonholed as one type of assassin or another. let your skill/feats combinations do the talking through your (Ex) -Death Blow is an interesting idea. seems appropriate despite being rarely used. if the shoe fits... -i hate losing extra Ranks in skills, but all the extra benefits, spells, attacks atone for it. i'd leave well enough alone here -some of you spell recommendations are sound, Silent Image and Hold Portal particularly. i'd watch Blindness though, it's basically all over for target if they fail save. overall, i like assassin (DMG) as is. i let my PC'/friends opt out on the alignment restriction and guild requirement though.
imakuni67 09-15-07, 01:35 PM	Thanks for the input, 1 ton ghost! I think I'll swap out quick draw and craft: poisonmaking for 2 ranks in sleight of hand. I was warry of blindness as well, I think I'll swap/drop it. (update)