Bear Warrior opinions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bear Warrior opinions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CountMRVHS
12-13-07, 09:30 PM I'm playing a lvl 5 Barbarian right now and have the glimmer of an interest in taking a few levels of Bear Warrior.

What are people's thoughts on this PrC? At first glance it seems to be pretty weak until 5th lvl, where you can take Brown Bear form and get some Improved Grab action happening. Before that, it seems like I'd be better off to just stay in human form and use my Rage for my melee weapons.

I'm also a bit concerned about my feat choices potentially not synergizing well ... Bear Warrior strikes me as a grappling class, and I have no grappling feats (yet-- I could be persuaded to burn a feat on Improved Grapple if that's all that's really necessary for that kind of build, but I'm not positive I wouldn't need a few more feats in there...)

The class also seems pretty dead-level-tastic. I know, I know -- you turn into a frickin' bear. But you also have to give up a Rage to do it, and your combat abilities seem a bit limited while in that form, at least until 5th and 10th lvl (dire bear!). Are there any variants for this class, or things that could be swapped in to make levels 2, 3, and 4 give you a bit more than just the Scent ability?

Or do you think the class is fine as is, and plays well in the game?

Just curious about anyone's thoughts on this!
Jaxgaret
12-13-07, 09:35 PM It seems a bit underpowered to me. I would have no problem as a DM adding some oomph to the class in the form of more class abilities in the dead levels.

It synergizes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy#Drug_synergism) quite well with levels in Warshaper.
Maat_Mons
12-13-07, 11:38 PM The bear form ability always struck me as just a severely limited substitute for wild shape. You can only turn into bears, and your bear forms are significantly behind a druid’s (a druid can turn into a dire bear at the level a bear warrior can turn into a brown bear).

The bear warrior has better ability scores than a druid when both are in the same form, but the druid’s access to better forms (with higher base ability scores) negates this advantage. The only thing a bear warrior beats a druid on is hit points, mostly because the current erratum for wild shape doesn’t give a druid the constitution score of an animal form.

I’m not saying everything needs to be druid-level, but you’d think the bear form ability could at least have been made competitive with wild shape, considering it’s the class’ only ability.
dman11235
12-14-07, 02:48 AM True, you give up "rage" (rmember, it's still rage when you turn into a bear), but: you turn into a bear! A said, when coupled with warshaper, it gets pretyy sweet. Also an option would be Fist of the Forest for some con-to-AC fun times. Another thing to keep in mind is that it's not wildshape, it's rage. Which means you do not get the strength scores of the forms, you gain a bonus (a high one), and your HP goes up with the con boost. Also, you gain the natural armor, and a boost to dex as well. Which means your AC goes up when you rage. I think it does well, despite the dead levels. Also, you get to turn into a bear without spell casting. And it is still rage, so rage feats work with it (reckless rage, etc.).

It is not wildshape by a long shot. Wildshape (like polymorph stuffs) turns your ability scores into the creature's scores. This adds to it. And you are a barbarian, not a druid, so it is is still different. It's not up to the druid's level (nothing is), but it is right there at the barbarians level, which is where it should be.

Note: I am currently playing a bearwarrior 5/monk 3/barbarian 2/FotF 3/Warshaper 4/witchslayer 2(ToMagic). I have evasion, mettle, high AC, HP, and saves (not yet, I'm only lv. 9 now). The last level has yet to be decided (fighter?). I am a grappler, but I have mucho unarmed damage as well (gargantuan damage at level 20: large size, improved natural attack, warshaper, all as a level 12 monk increased by two dice sizes: 3 levels, Superior unarmed strike, monk's belt, +2 from FotF). Comes to 12d8 base for my unarmed strike.

Sorry for the completely unorganized post.

I do want to know what animal that a level 20 druid can turn into has 52 strength. 16 base+5 levels+5 tome+6 item+4 warshaper+16 brown bear.
Maat_Mons
12-14-07, 04:51 AM A level 18 druid can turn into a dire polar bear with strength 39, throw two levels into warshaper for +4, cast enhance wild shape for +2 (4th level spell, duration 18 hours), and wear a +6 item (perhaps with a wilding clasp) for a total strength of 51. I’ll admit that was a lower result than I was expecting when I began typing that sentence. I guess you’d have to make up for it by taking levels of nature’s warrior (it stacks for wild shape, so there is no difficulty fitting it in) for the +3 to damage with natural weapons.

If you look past the druid’s wild shape to wild shape in general, such as the master of many forms, you can do better though. With two levels of master of many forms (and 16 other levels tied up in wild shape) you can turn into a greater dusk giant with strength 48, throw two levels into warshaper for +4, cast enhance wild shape for +2 (4th level spell, duration 16 hours), and wear a +6 item (perhaps with a wilding clasp) for a total strength of 60.

Unless I’ve miscalculated, you’re starting with 12th level monk damage (2d6), increasing by two monk-increases (2d10), and increasing that by three size categories (8d8). 12d8 would be colossal-size damage.
The_Shaman
12-14-07, 06:15 AM I prefer the primeval, myself. Except for the hard prerequisites, it is imo much better.
Tordak
12-14-07, 09:39 AM I also think it's a bit underpower, espacially since you'll now rely mainly on natural weapon instead of your usual weapon. Not so much underpower as less versatile perhaps then the barbarian. Rage doesn't last very long either, so you couldn't take prestige class like nature's warrior or wildshaper to take advantage of fast healing (you'd have acces to other nice feature however, like DR (NW) or immunities and str and con bonus). I think that, by the level you get most of these, they could have made it into and Hybrid human bear form instead(much like a werebear), so that you still use your weapon. You have 2 claw and one bite, note to shabby, maybe you can take feats that improve on natural weapon use.

Then again, with appropriate gear (beast hide armor and magic item with wilding enhacement), you can get a lot from it. And as stated before, your physical abilities should be rather high since it's a bonus, with strengh easily in the 50's (which mean a bonus of 20+), and being large this should be enough to grapple many opponents, even if you don't have grapple feats.
CountMRVHS
12-14-07, 09:43 AM Good points, thanks.

I hadn't even considered Warshaper (the art for that PrC in Complete Warrior was, shall we say, less than inspiring....). It has some interesting stuff and looks like even a 1-lvl dip might be worth it. Much more than 1 or 2 lvls though, I don't know. My overall plan might be to take 5 lvls Barb, 10 lvls Swordthane (a Prc I made.. should be kicking around on this board somewhere), 5 lvls Bear Warrior (not in that order). I see Bear Warrior as adding some cool flavor, but since I'm not really maxing out the optimization of my character, I wonder if it will be all that effective.

My overall feat build will emphasize charges (Combat Brute and Shock Trooper -- Swordthane grants some bonus feats that will allow me to take both) and shoving people around (Bullrush), but no Grappling yet. I get the feeling that a creature with claws and bit might not be so effective in a charge.

Any feats that you'd consider critical for Bear Warrior? I have the core books, Complete Warrior, Adventurer, Scoundrel, PHBII, Heroes of Battle.
AngryJake
12-14-07, 03:14 PM I prefer the Frenzied Berserker, for my barbarians.
dman11235
12-14-07, 03:28 PM I prefer frenzied berserker bear warriors.
The_Shaman
12-14-07, 05:24 PM I prefer Runescarred Berserkers, really.
CandleZ792
12-14-07, 11:01 PM Natural weapons? I think there was an item in Savage Spieces that lets you use items as if you had hands. Barbarian rage is seperate from the bear form.

lv10 brbn 10bear warrior=+24 str, frenziedberserker10 + barbarian10 =+14

Just because it is only useable in rage does not mean it overrides the rage's bonuses, just adds to them.
Maat_Mons
12-14-07, 11:12 PM It overrides the rage bonuses because the ability says “ability score bonuses granted by rage or frenzy are replaced.”
dman11235
12-14-07, 11:12 PM Rage is the same as bear form. Your stat adjusments are different. It specifically says that your stat adjusments are changed to this.
Kelmourne
12-15-07, 05:46 PM I would base the decision on roleplaying. Does your character have ANY affinity for bears?
Silverthumb
12-17-07, 04:14 PM I would base the decision on roleplaying. Does your character have ANY affinity for bears?

May I suggest a Shifter Bear totem Barbarian Bear Warrior Weretouched Master Animal(Bear) Lord? :D

Also, yes you can do it.
The_Shaman
12-17-07, 05:04 PM Which bear totem, the UA one?
CountMRVHS
12-17-07, 06:01 PM Well, I hadn't originally planned Bear Warrior when I created the character. But I can see how it would fit, as he's a tough barbarian guy from a pretty low-tech part of the world. I've been doing some reading of the Icelandic Sagas and the way some of the berserks were considered to be not only melee bad-asses but "shape shifters" who would sometimes take the form of bears or wolves. I can see my guy getting into that. Maybe it will involve some form of initiation, dire-bear killing quest, or something like that.

It's rather too late for me to start planning all 20 lvls of a brand new character with scads of prestige classes, though.

I was just wondering, if I was essentially a barb/bear warrior, what kinds of things about the PrC (if anything) would I need to change, and what sorts of feats etc might I want to take.
Jaxgaret
12-17-07, 07:31 PM May I suggest a Shifter Bear totem Barbarian Bear Warrior Weretouched Master Animal(Bear) Lord? :D

:rofl:

I want to play that character. "So... you like bears, huh?"

It would be Stephen Colbert's nightmare come true!
Silverthumb
12-18-07, 12:49 PM Which bear totem, the UA one?

There's more than one? If so, yes, the UA.

:rofl:

I want to play that character. "So... you like bears, huh?"

It would be Stephen Colbert's nightmare come true!

You might say that adventuring with him would be unbearable.
zook1shoe666
12-18-07, 01:03 PM I prefer the primeval, myself. Except for the hard prerequisites, it is imo much better.

agree'd, and you're not limited to just bears ;)
Kelmourne
12-20-07, 11:38 AM You might say that adventuring with him would be unbearable.

You sir have created a monster among puns.
madbliza
12-20-07, 11:49 AM The only advantage that I see coming from the Bear Warrior is the scent ability. Especially if you take the scent feats. Then nobody can sneak up on with in 30ft. If they fall within 20ft. you know where they are. An interesting advantage for a barbarian who gets Listen as a skill, but not Spot.
drunkman
12-20-07, 02:46 PM This class is what I call underpowered, at least they could have said something like "the bear warrior's levels stack with barbarian levels for the purpose of number of times per day it can rage", I'd think then, you'd have a fair class, I'd suggest you talk to the DM about including that.

After you've completed the Bear Warrior, I'd suggest taking the warshaper prestige class in the same book you got the bear warrior from, and requirements? Just from taking the bear warrior prestige class, you've pretty much met all the requirements. The ability to morph into a bear, then get all wacky with it with the warshaper is a mean combination. After you've completed both prestige classes, go back to leveling up your barbarian.

As for the imroved grapple question, yeah, even though the bear transformation gives you improved grab, improved grapple is still worth it for the bonus, but you must take improved unarmed strike as your level six feat, then improved grapple at level nine. And then there's more feats I suggest. For one, Earth's Embrace in the complete warrior book, which deals an extra 1d12 damage for every round you maintain a pin. Then I'd suggest looking at the Monster Manuals and Savage Species for some monsterous feats that I would think you meet the perequisites for because you can be a bear. Take multiattack and improved multiattack right away. Then I'd suggest taking improved natural attack twice to improve the power of your claw and bite. Make sure to take Multi-grab and Improved Multi-grab (Savage Species), which basically make it possible for you to conduct a grapple without you being considered "grappled" (without the -20 penalty).

I'd think you're getting the best out of the bear warrior right there.
Aryxbez
12-20-07, 02:58 PM Well, I hadn't originally planned Bear Warrior when I created the character. But I can see how it would fit, as he's a tough barbarian guy from a pretty low-tech part of the world. I've been doing some reading of the Icelandic Sagas and the way some of the berserks were considered to be not only melee bad-asses but "shape shifters" who would sometimes take the form of bears or wolves. I can see my guy getting into that. Maybe it will involve some form of initiation, dire-bear killing quest, or something like that.

It's rather too late for me to start planning all 20 lvls of a brand new character with scads of prestige classes, though.

I was just wondering, if I was essentially a barb/bear warrior, what kinds of things about the PrC (if anything) would I need to change, and what sorts of feats etc might I want to take.

There is the Berserk PRC in Deities and Demigods, however you would probably have to give some minor fixes to make it decent. It indeed has the ability for them shape change, but last time I recall, it was pretty weak. However it is very easy to get into, and taking only 1 level nets it's Beserk fury and movement.

Runescarred? I fail to see what is so mighty of this PRC, I believe it is in some forgotten realms book?
dman11235
12-20-07, 03:01 PM Another option: one level of monk (or two, or three). Grab Imp Grap as a bonus feat, and Imp Un Strk as a bonus feat. Also, deal more unarmed damage. Also getting an unarmed strike that can be used as an iterative attack. Also, you can't take improved natural attack more than once. Just buy a fanged ring instead and save yourself a feat slot.
drunkman
12-20-07, 04:17 PM Another option: one level of monk (or two, or three). Grab Imp Grap as a bonus feat, and Imp Un Strk as a bonus feat. Also, deal more unarmed damage. Also getting an unarmed strike that can be used as an iterative attack. Also, you can't take improved natural attack more than once. Just buy a fanged ring instead and save yourself a feat slot.

Well yeah, the monk thing saves you a feat or two, but first of all, but you can't level up as a monk without a multiclass penalty unless he's a human or anything with a monk or barbarian as a favoured class. Second of all, you have to either become an ex-monk as soon as you reach the first monk level or become an ex-barbarian in order to advance as a monk, but if you become an ex-barbarian, you are no longer allowed to rage which means you can't go bear form which makes the entire bear warrior class is useless. Therefore you'd be stuck with a first level monk.

And actually, yes you can take improved natural attack feat twice, each time it applies to a different natural attack (one would be for the bite, another for the claw attacks). Also, it's possible to get irritive attacks from a natural weapon, not necessarily from having a high base attack bonus but by having a neckless of natural weapons (savage species), which allows you to get magical adjustments for natural weapons, so I can have a +1 speed claw attack. And actually, I think the natural attack deals more damage thsn a level 1 monk's unarmed strike.
dman11235
12-20-07, 05:47 PM Which is why you take your monk levels first then become an ex-monk. You lose nothing. Or you could get your DM to waive those silly alignment restrictions, which don't make sense for monks, and make less sense for barbarians. What, if I'm lawful I can't be angry???

And oh, I thought you meant more than once for the same natural attack. My bad.
Cartigan
12-20-07, 06:27 PM Which is why you take your monk levels first then become an ex-monk. You lose nothing. Or you could get your DM to waive those silly alignment restrictions, which don't make sense for monks, and make less sense for barbarians. What, if I'm lawful I can't be angry???

And oh, I thought you meant more than once for the same natural attack. My bad.
Wouldn't it be better to take Fighter instead of Monk if you just wanted feats (and not Stunning Fist)?
dman11235
12-20-07, 06:51 PM Monks get evasion. And two feats at level 1. Also they get flurry. And if you needed stunning fist for your PrC, you could take that instead of imp grap. And unarmed damage, which if you do it right is better than non-monk SUS.
Cartigan
12-20-07, 07:45 PM Well that is an entirely different argument than "get Improved Grapple and Improved Unarmed Strike." Also, there is the problem of mixing Monk and Barbarian, and the decrease in BaB.
drunkman
12-21-07, 12:37 AM Which is why you take your monk levels first then become an ex-monk. You lose nothing.

Oh, I'm all for having a first level monk, now that you mentioned it, it's just that he'll be an ex-monk right when he reached the first level. True, the guy should have taken three levels, but the questioner can't, he's already a level five barbarian.

Or you could get your DM to waive those silly alignment restrictions, which don't make sense for monks, and make less sense for barbarians. What, if I'm lawful I can't be angry???

You can be angry as a lawful, but this isn't just anger, this is supposed to be a chaotic burst of frenzy that unscrews all law and order out your head. Lawfuls shouldn't be able to do that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CountMRVHS 12-13-07, 09:30 PM	I'm playing a lvl 5 Barbarian right now and have the glimmer of an interest in taking a few levels of Bear Warrior. What are people's thoughts on this PrC? At first glance it seems to be pretty weak until 5th lvl, where you can take Brown Bear form and get some Improved Grab action happening. Before that, it seems like I'd be better off to just stay in human form and use my Rage for my melee weapons. I'm also a bit concerned about my feat choices potentially not synergizing well ... Bear Warrior strikes me as a grappling class, and I have no grappling feats (yet-- I could be persuaded to burn a feat on Improved Grapple if that's all that's really necessary for that kind of build, but I'm not positive I wouldn't need a few more feats in there...) The class also seems pretty dead-level-tastic. I know, I know -- you turn into a frickin' bear. But you also have to give up a Rage to do it, and your combat abilities seem a bit limited while in that form, at least until 5th and 10th lvl (dire bear!). Are there any variants for this class, or things that could be swapped in to make levels 2, 3, and 4 give you a bit more than just the Scent ability? Or do you think the class is fine as is, and plays well in the game? Just curious about anyone's thoughts on this!
Jaxgaret 12-13-07, 09:35 PM	It seems a bit underpowered to me. I would have no problem as a DM adding some oomph to the class in the form of more class abilities in the dead levels. It synergizes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy#Drug_synergism) quite well with levels in Warshaper.
Maat_Mons 12-13-07, 11:38 PM	The bear form ability always struck me as just a severely limited substitute for wild shape. You can only turn into bears, and your bear forms are significantly behind a druid’s (a druid can turn into a dire bear at the level a bear warrior can turn into a brown bear). The bear warrior has better ability scores than a druid when both are in the same form, but the druid’s access to better forms (with higher base ability scores) negates this advantage. The only thing a bear warrior beats a druid on is hit points, mostly because the current erratum for wild shape doesn’t give a druid the constitution score of an animal form. I’m not saying everything needs to be druid-level, but you’d think the bear form ability could at least have been made competitive with wild shape, considering it’s the class’ only ability.
dman11235 12-14-07, 02:48 AM	True, you give up "rage" (rmember, it's still rage when you turn into a bear), but: you turn into a bear! A said, when coupled with warshaper, it gets pretyy sweet. Also an option would be Fist of the Forest for some con-to-AC fun times. Another thing to keep in mind is that it's not wildshape, it's rage. Which means you do not get the strength scores of the forms, you gain a bonus (a high one), and your HP goes up with the con boost. Also, you gain the natural armor, and a boost to dex as well. Which means your AC goes up when you rage. I think it does well, despite the dead levels. Also, you get to turn into a bear without spell casting. And it is still rage, so rage feats work with it (reckless rage, etc.). It is not wildshape by a long shot. Wildshape (like polymorph stuffs) turns your ability scores into the creature's scores. This adds to it. And you are a barbarian, not a druid, so it is is still different. It's not up to the druid's level (nothing is), but it is right there at the barbarians level, which is where it should be. Note: I am currently playing a bearwarrior 5/monk 3/barbarian 2/FotF 3/Warshaper 4/witchslayer 2(ToMagic). I have evasion, mettle, high AC, HP, and saves (not yet, I'm only lv. 9 now). The last level has yet to be decided (fighter?). I am a grappler, but I have mucho unarmed damage as well (gargantuan damage at level 20: large size, improved natural attack, warshaper, all as a level 12 monk increased by two dice sizes: 3 levels, Superior unarmed strike, monk's belt, +2 from FotF). Comes to 12d8 base for my unarmed strike. Sorry for the completely unorganized post. I do want to know what animal that a level 20 druid can turn into has 52 strength. 16 base+5 levels+5 tome+6 item+4 warshaper+16 brown bear.
Maat_Mons 12-14-07, 04:51 AM	A level 18 druid can turn into a dire polar bear with strength 39, throw two levels into warshaper for +4, cast enhance wild shape for +2 (4th level spell, duration 18 hours), and wear a +6 item (perhaps with a wilding clasp) for a total strength of 51. I’ll admit that was a lower result than I was expecting when I began typing that sentence. I guess you’d have to make up for it by taking levels of nature’s warrior (it stacks for wild shape, so there is no difficulty fitting it in) for the +3 to damage with natural weapons. If you look past the druid’s wild shape to wild shape in general, such as the master of many forms, you can do better though. With two levels of master of many forms (and 16 other levels tied up in wild shape) you can turn into a greater dusk giant with strength 48, throw two levels into warshaper for +4, cast enhance wild shape for +2 (4th level spell, duration 16 hours), and wear a +6 item (perhaps with a wilding clasp) for a total strength of 60. Unless I’ve miscalculated, you’re starting with 12th level monk damage (2d6), increasing by two monk-increases (2d10), and increasing that by three size categories (8d8). 12d8 would be colossal-size damage.
The_Shaman 12-14-07, 06:15 AM	I prefer the primeval, myself. Except for the hard prerequisites, it is imo much better.
Tordak 12-14-07, 09:39 AM	I also think it's a bit underpower, espacially since you'll now rely mainly on natural weapon instead of your usual weapon. Not so much underpower as less versatile perhaps then the barbarian. Rage doesn't last very long either, so you couldn't take prestige class like nature's warrior or wildshaper to take advantage of fast healing (you'd have acces to other nice feature however, like DR (NW) or immunities and str and con bonus). I think that, by the level you get most of these, they could have made it into and Hybrid human bear form instead(much like a werebear), so that you still use your weapon. You have 2 claw and one bite, note to shabby, maybe you can take feats that improve on natural weapon use. Then again, with appropriate gear (beast hide armor and magic item with wilding enhacement), you can get a lot from it. And as stated before, your physical abilities should be rather high since it's a bonus, with strengh easily in the 50's (which mean a bonus of 20+), and being large this should be enough to grapple many opponents, even if you don't have grapple feats.
CountMRVHS 12-14-07, 09:43 AM	Good points, thanks. I hadn't even considered Warshaper (the art for that PrC in Complete Warrior was, shall we say, less than inspiring....). It has some interesting stuff and looks like even a 1-lvl dip might be worth it. Much more than 1 or 2 lvls though, I don't know. My overall plan might be to take 5 lvls Barb, 10 lvls Swordthane (a Prc I made.. should be kicking around on this board somewhere), 5 lvls Bear Warrior (not in that order). I see Bear Warrior as adding some cool flavor, but since I'm not really maxing out the optimization of my character, I wonder if it will be all that effective. My overall feat build will emphasize charges (Combat Brute and Shock Trooper -- Swordthane grants some bonus feats that will allow me to take both) and shoving people around (Bullrush), but no Grappling yet. I get the feeling that a creature with claws and bit might not be so effective in a charge. Any feats that you'd consider critical for Bear Warrior? I have the core books, Complete Warrior, Adventurer, Scoundrel, PHBII, Heroes of Battle.
AngryJake 12-14-07, 03:14 PM	I prefer the Frenzied Berserker, for my barbarians.
dman11235 12-14-07, 03:28 PM	I prefer frenzied berserker bear warriors.
The_Shaman 12-14-07, 05:24 PM	I prefer Runescarred Berserkers, really.
CandleZ792 12-14-07, 11:01 PM	Natural weapons? I think there was an item in Savage Spieces that lets you use items as if you had hands. Barbarian rage is seperate from the bear form. lv10 brbn 10bear warrior=+24 str, frenziedberserker10 + barbarian10 =+14 Just because it is only useable in rage does not mean it overrides the rage's bonuses, just adds to them.
Maat_Mons 12-14-07, 11:12 PM	It overrides the rage bonuses because the ability says “ability score bonuses granted by rage or frenzy are replaced.”
dman11235 12-14-07, 11:12 PM	Rage is the same as bear form. Your stat adjusments are different. It specifically says that your stat adjusments are changed to this.
Kelmourne 12-15-07, 05:46 PM	I would base the decision on roleplaying. Does your character have ANY affinity for bears?
Silverthumb 12-17-07, 04:14 PM	I would base the decision on roleplaying. Does your character have ANY affinity for bears? May I suggest a Shifter Bear totem Barbarian Bear Warrior Weretouched Master Animal(Bear) Lord? :D Also, yes you can do it.
The_Shaman 12-17-07, 05:04 PM	Which bear totem, the UA one?
CountMRVHS 12-17-07, 06:01 PM	Well, I hadn't originally planned Bear Warrior when I created the character. But I can see how it would fit, as he's a tough barbarian guy from a pretty low-tech part of the world. I've been doing some reading of the Icelandic Sagas and the way some of the berserks were considered to be not only melee bad-asses but "shape shifters" who would sometimes take the form of bears or wolves. I can see my guy getting into that. Maybe it will involve some form of initiation, dire-bear killing quest, or something like that. It's rather too late for me to start planning all 20 lvls of a brand new character with scads of prestige classes, though. I was just wondering, if I was essentially a barb/bear warrior, what kinds of things about the PrC (if anything) would I need to change, and what sorts of feats etc might I want to take.
Jaxgaret 12-17-07, 07:31 PM	May I suggest a Shifter Bear totem Barbarian Bear Warrior Weretouched Master Animal(Bear) Lord? :D :rofl: I want to play that character. "So... you like bears, huh?" It would be Stephen Colbert's nightmare come true!
Silverthumb 12-18-07, 12:49 PM	Which bear totem, the UA one? There's more than one? If so, yes, the UA. :rofl: I want to play that character. "So... you like bears, huh?" It would be Stephen Colbert's nightmare come true! You might say that adventuring with him would be unbearable.
zook1shoe666 12-18-07, 01:03 PM	I prefer the primeval, myself. Except for the hard prerequisites, it is imo much better. agree'd, and you're not limited to just bears ;)
Kelmourne 12-20-07, 11:38 AM	You might say that adventuring with him would be unbearable. You sir have created a monster among puns.
madbliza 12-20-07, 11:49 AM	The only advantage that I see coming from the Bear Warrior is the scent ability. Especially if you take the scent feats. Then nobody can sneak up on with in 30ft. If they fall within 20ft. you know where they are. An interesting advantage for a barbarian who gets Listen as a skill, but not Spot.
drunkman 12-20-07, 02:46 PM	This class is what I call underpowered, at least they could have said something like "the bear warrior's levels stack with barbarian levels for the purpose of number of times per day it can rage", I'd think then, you'd have a fair class, I'd suggest you talk to the DM about including that. After you've completed the Bear Warrior, I'd suggest taking the warshaper prestige class in the same book you got the bear warrior from, and requirements? Just from taking the bear warrior prestige class, you've pretty much met all the requirements. The ability to morph into a bear, then get all wacky with it with the warshaper is a mean combination. After you've completed both prestige classes, go back to leveling up your barbarian. As for the imroved grapple question, yeah, even though the bear transformation gives you improved grab, improved grapple is still worth it for the bonus, but you must take improved unarmed strike as your level six feat, then improved grapple at level nine. And then there's more feats I suggest. For one, Earth's Embrace in the complete warrior book, which deals an extra 1d12 damage for every round you maintain a pin. Then I'd suggest looking at the Monster Manuals and Savage Species for some monsterous feats that I would think you meet the perequisites for because you can be a bear. Take multiattack and improved multiattack right away. Then I'd suggest taking improved natural attack twice to improve the power of your claw and bite. Make sure to take Multi-grab and Improved Multi-grab (Savage Species), which basically make it possible for you to conduct a grapple without you being considered "grappled" (without the -20 penalty). I'd think you're getting the best out of the bear warrior right there.
Aryxbez 12-20-07, 02:58 PM	Well, I hadn't originally planned Bear Warrior when I created the character. But I can see how it would fit, as he's a tough barbarian guy from a pretty low-tech part of the world. I've been doing some reading of the Icelandic Sagas and the way some of the berserks were considered to be not only melee bad-asses but "shape shifters" who would sometimes take the form of bears or wolves. I can see my guy getting into that. Maybe it will involve some form of initiation, dire-bear killing quest, or something like that. It's rather too late for me to start planning all 20 lvls of a brand new character with scads of prestige classes, though. I was just wondering, if I was essentially a barb/bear warrior, what kinds of things about the PrC (if anything) would I need to change, and what sorts of feats etc might I want to take. There is the Berserk PRC in Deities and Demigods, however you would probably have to give some minor fixes to make it decent. It indeed has the ability for them shape change, but last time I recall, it was pretty weak. However it is very easy to get into, and taking only 1 level nets it's Beserk fury and movement. Runescarred? I fail to see what is so mighty of this PRC, I believe it is in some forgotten realms book?
dman11235 12-20-07, 03:01 PM	Another option: one level of monk (or two, or three). Grab Imp Grap as a bonus feat, and Imp Un Strk as a bonus feat. Also, deal more unarmed damage. Also getting an unarmed strike that can be used as an iterative attack. Also, you can't take improved natural attack more than once. Just buy a fanged ring instead and save yourself a feat slot.
drunkman 12-20-07, 04:17 PM	Another option: one level of monk (or two, or three). Grab Imp Grap as a bonus feat, and Imp Un Strk as a bonus feat. Also, deal more unarmed damage. Also getting an unarmed strike that can be used as an iterative attack. Also, you can't take improved natural attack more than once. Just buy a fanged ring instead and save yourself a feat slot. Well yeah, the monk thing saves you a feat or two, but first of all, but you can't level up as a monk without a multiclass penalty unless he's a human or anything with a monk or barbarian as a favoured class. Second of all, you have to either become an ex-monk as soon as you reach the first monk level or become an ex-barbarian in order to advance as a monk, but if you become an ex-barbarian, you are no longer allowed to rage which means you can't go bear form which makes the entire bear warrior class is useless. Therefore you'd be stuck with a first level monk. And actually, yes you can take improved natural attack feat twice, each time it applies to a different natural attack (one would be for the bite, another for the claw attacks). Also, it's possible to get irritive attacks from a natural weapon, not necessarily from having a high base attack bonus but by having a neckless of natural weapons (savage species), which allows you to get magical adjustments for natural weapons, so I can have a +1 speed claw attack. And actually, I think the natural attack deals more damage thsn a level 1 monk's unarmed strike.
dman11235 12-20-07, 05:47 PM	Which is why you take your monk levels first then become an ex-monk. You lose nothing. Or you could get your DM to waive those silly alignment restrictions, which don't make sense for monks, and make less sense for barbarians. What, if I'm lawful I can't be angry??? And oh, I thought you meant more than once for the same natural attack. My bad.
Cartigan 12-20-07, 06:27 PM	Which is why you take your monk levels first then become an ex-monk. You lose nothing. Or you could get your DM to waive those silly alignment restrictions, which don't make sense for monks, and make less sense for barbarians. What, if I'm lawful I can't be angry??? And oh, I thought you meant more than once for the same natural attack. My bad. Wouldn't it be better to take Fighter instead of Monk if you just wanted feats (and not Stunning Fist)?
dman11235 12-20-07, 06:51 PM	Monks get evasion. And two feats at level 1. Also they get flurry. And if you needed stunning fist for your PrC, you could take that instead of imp grap. And unarmed damage, which if you do it right is better than non-monk SUS.
Cartigan 12-20-07, 07:45 PM	Well that is an entirely different argument than "get Improved Grapple and Improved Unarmed Strike." Also, there is the problem of mixing Monk and Barbarian, and the decrease in BaB.
drunkman 12-21-07, 12:37 AM	Which is why you take your monk levels first then become an ex-monk. You lose nothing. Oh, I'm all for having a first level monk, now that you mentioned it, it's just that he'll be an ex-monk right when he reached the first level. True, the guy should have taken three levels, but the questioner can't, he's already a level five barbarian. Or you could get your DM to waive those silly alignment restrictions, which don't make sense for monks, and make less sense for barbarians. What, if I'm lawful I can't be angry??? You can be angry as a lawful, but this isn't just anger, this is supposed to be a chaotic burst of frenzy that unscrews all law and order out your head. Lawfuls shouldn't be able to do that.