Bear Warrior Prestige Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bear Warrior Prestige Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cuindless
11-29-07, 10:58 AM I was just taking a look at the Complete Warrior supplement because one of my players wants to take the prestige class "Bear Warrior". At first level, it allows the character to assume the form of a Black Bear while raging, thus giving him a +8 to Str, a +2 to Dex and a +4 to Con. He will also get the claw and bite attacks of the bear, but lose the ability to use weapons. The PrC seems a little overpowered to me, possibly game breaking. The character is already pretty damn powerful as a Fighter4/Barbarian6. What is the general consensus, is this PrC acceptable?
TheBeardedElf
11-29-07, 01:18 PM The claw damage is fairly small compared to what a weapon could be dealing at those levels, and natural weapons don't get additional attacks due to a high BAB. Also all armor and equipment is absorbed into the Bear form when Bear Rage is activated, so he would lose any armor bonus he had before, unless he wants to shell out for a wilding clasp from the Magic Item Compendium.
Mr_Teapot
11-29-07, 02:35 PM I was just taking a look at the Complete Warrior supplement because one of my players wants to take the prestige class "Bear Warrior". At first level, it allows the character to assume the form of a Black Bear while raging, thus giving him a +8 to Str, a +2 to Dex and a +4 to Con. He will also get the claw and bite attacks of the bear, but lose the ability to use weapons. The PrC seems a little overpowered to me, possibly game breaking. The character is already pretty damn powerful as a Fighter4/Barbarian6. What is the general consensus, is this PrC acceptable?

There are a lot more broken things in that book alone (Hulking Hurler can get into millions of damage if you do it right, Frenzied Berserker is also crazy broken). I've never heard of anyone using Bear Warrior to do anything especially game breaking. A Druid could have been turning into a Black Bear at 5th level (or by 11th level, something bigger and worse), and would get full Spellcasting and an animal companion to boot.
dman11235
11-29-07, 06:06 PM Also: they get nothing else. Their special column is pretty barren. And natural attacks don't get iterative attacks, so by level 20 that barbarian 10/ bear warrior 10 will be getting three attacks, while the barbarian 10/ frenzied berserker 10 will be getting 4 and a higher damage dice (2d6 for a great sword). It's best used when combined with a couple monk levels to get unarmed strike, and possibly psy war to get expansion, and turn it into a grappling machine.
CryoSilver
12-01-07, 02:26 AM Honestly, Bear Warrior is what I think a PrC should be: it's very focused, but you wouldn't lose anything by going straight through to barbarian 20. When the designers said PrCs should be optional, I took that to mean that playing without them should be just as powerful as playing with them.
dman11235
12-01-07, 04:04 PM CryoSilver: yes. That's what a PrC is. And yet I see people making PrCs to be more powerful than base classes all the time. It's okay for the class to be more powerful, as long as it's balanced by prereqs and such.
Cuindless
12-01-07, 07:49 PM CryoSilver: yes. That's what a PrC is. And yet I see people making PrCs to be more powerful than base classes all the time. It's okay for the class to be more powerful, as long as it's balanced by prereqs and such.

I agree with that completely! Someone in my first 3.5 game asked me to make a PrC for their character based around celestial bloodline and divine power. They made a bunch of suggestions for powers that they thought would be cool. I took their suggestions and made the PrC, but made the requirements very strict.
CryoSilver
12-01-07, 10:38 PM Well, a PrC is generally more powerful in one focus than a base class, but should give up some versatility to gain that focus. Case in point: Bear Warrior. You dump AC and iterative attacks to massively boost your stats.
dman11235
12-01-07, 11:55 PM Yeah, dump that AC and iterative attacks...unless you go Fist of the Forest/monk/barbarian/bear warrior. Then your AC goes up when you rage!

But you have to admit: more powerful in one specific area /= more powerful. It should be balanced by the specialization. Most of the time it is.
Ander Spectacular
12-03-07, 10:10 AM Though they give up iterative attacks, they still get 3 attacks per round as soon as they enter, regardless of iterative attacks. This can give them 1 extra attack above what BAB would allow immediately. Also, with Multiattack, you hit better than you would with iterative attacks, and Rapid strike can allow you to equal that number. Bear Warrior is pretty sweet. You lose a lot of stuff, but Dire Bear shape is nasty.
-AS-
Nephlite
12-03-07, 11:53 AM The claw damage is fairly small compared to what a weapon could be dealing at those levels, and natural weapons don't get additional attacks due to a high BAB. Also all armor and equipment is absorbed into the Bear form when Bear Rage is activated, so he would lose any armor bonus he had before, unless he wants to shell out for a wilding clasp from the Magic Item Compendium.

Nope, only Wildshape absorbs all gear.

Non-armor/weapons are not absorbed if the bear can wear them: belt, rings, gloves, boots, helmet, etc.
CryoSilver
12-03-07, 04:36 PM CryoSilver: yes. That's what a PrC is. And yet I see people making PrCs to be more powerful than base classes all the time. It's okay for the class to be more powerful, as long as it's balanced by prereqs and such.

Sometime it doesn't help that certain base classes (sorcerer) are impossible NOT to outclass without dropping key features (spellcasting).
dman11235
12-03-07, 04:42 PM True, but it must be done, otherwise it's bland. Also, prereqs can be limiting, and so can RP reasons. I know that fluff isn't supposed to be a balancing factor to most, but I believe that it can if you let it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cuindless 11-29-07, 10:58 AM	I was just taking a look at the Complete Warrior supplement because one of my players wants to take the prestige class "Bear Warrior". At first level, it allows the character to assume the form of a Black Bear while raging, thus giving him a +8 to Str, a +2 to Dex and a +4 to Con. He will also get the claw and bite attacks of the bear, but lose the ability to use weapons. The PrC seems a little overpowered to me, possibly game breaking. The character is already pretty damn powerful as a Fighter4/Barbarian6. What is the general consensus, is this PrC acceptable?
TheBeardedElf 11-29-07, 01:18 PM	The claw damage is fairly small compared to what a weapon could be dealing at those levels, and natural weapons don't get additional attacks due to a high BAB. Also all armor and equipment is absorbed into the Bear form when Bear Rage is activated, so he would lose any armor bonus he had before, unless he wants to shell out for a wilding clasp from the Magic Item Compendium.
Mr_Teapot 11-29-07, 02:35 PM	I was just taking a look at the Complete Warrior supplement because one of my players wants to take the prestige class "Bear Warrior". At first level, it allows the character to assume the form of a Black Bear while raging, thus giving him a +8 to Str, a +2 to Dex and a +4 to Con. He will also get the claw and bite attacks of the bear, but lose the ability to use weapons. The PrC seems a little overpowered to me, possibly game breaking. The character is already pretty damn powerful as a Fighter4/Barbarian6. What is the general consensus, is this PrC acceptable? There are a lot more broken things in that book alone (Hulking Hurler can get into millions of damage if you do it right, Frenzied Berserker is also crazy broken). I've never heard of anyone using Bear Warrior to do anything especially game breaking. A Druid could have been turning into a Black Bear at 5th level (or by 11th level, something bigger and worse), and would get full Spellcasting and an animal companion to boot.
dman11235 11-29-07, 06:06 PM	Also: they get nothing else. Their special column is pretty barren. And natural attacks don't get iterative attacks, so by level 20 that barbarian 10/ bear warrior 10 will be getting three attacks, while the barbarian 10/ frenzied berserker 10 will be getting 4 and a higher damage dice (2d6 for a great sword). It's best used when combined with a couple monk levels to get unarmed strike, and possibly psy war to get expansion, and turn it into a grappling machine.
CryoSilver 12-01-07, 02:26 AM	Honestly, Bear Warrior is what I think a PrC should be: it's very focused, but you wouldn't lose anything by going straight through to barbarian 20. When the designers said PrCs should be optional, I took that to mean that playing without them should be just as powerful as playing with them.
dman11235 12-01-07, 04:04 PM	CryoSilver: yes. That's what a PrC is. And yet I see people making PrCs to be more powerful than base classes all the time. It's okay for the class to be more powerful, as long as it's balanced by prereqs and such.
Cuindless 12-01-07, 07:49 PM	CryoSilver: yes. That's what a PrC is. And yet I see people making PrCs to be more powerful than base classes all the time. It's okay for the class to be more powerful, as long as it's balanced by prereqs and such. I agree with that completely! Someone in my first 3.5 game asked me to make a PrC for their character based around celestial bloodline and divine power. They made a bunch of suggestions for powers that they thought would be cool. I took their suggestions and made the PrC, but made the requirements very strict.
CryoSilver 12-01-07, 10:38 PM	Well, a PrC is generally more powerful in one focus than a base class, but should give up some versatility to gain that focus. Case in point: Bear Warrior. You dump AC and iterative attacks to massively boost your stats.
dman11235 12-01-07, 11:55 PM	Yeah, dump that AC and iterative attacks...unless you go Fist of the Forest/monk/barbarian/bear warrior. Then your AC goes up when you rage! But you have to admit: more powerful in one specific area /= more powerful. It should be balanced by the specialization. Most of the time it is.
Ander Spectacular 12-03-07, 10:10 AM	Though they give up iterative attacks, they still get 3 attacks per round as soon as they enter, regardless of iterative attacks. This can give them 1 extra attack above what BAB would allow immediately. Also, with Multiattack, you hit better than you would with iterative attacks, and Rapid strike can allow you to equal that number. Bear Warrior is pretty sweet. You lose a lot of stuff, but Dire Bear shape is nasty. -AS-
Nephlite 12-03-07, 11:53 AM	The claw damage is fairly small compared to what a weapon could be dealing at those levels, and natural weapons don't get additional attacks due to a high BAB. Also all armor and equipment is absorbed into the Bear form when Bear Rage is activated, so he would lose any armor bonus he had before, unless he wants to shell out for a wilding clasp from the Magic Item Compendium. Nope, only Wildshape absorbs all gear. Non-armor/weapons are not absorbed if the bear can wear them: belt, rings, gloves, boots, helmet, etc.
CryoSilver 12-03-07, 04:36 PM	CryoSilver: yes. That's what a PrC is. And yet I see people making PrCs to be more powerful than base classes all the time. It's okay for the class to be more powerful, as long as it's balanced by prereqs and such. Sometime it doesn't help that certain base classes (sorcerer) are impossible NOT to outclass without dropping key features (spellcasting).
dman11235 12-03-07, 04:42 PM	True, but it must be done, otherwise it's bland. Also, prereqs can be limiting, and so can RP reasons. I know that fluff isn't supposed to be a balancing factor to most, but I believe that it can if you let it.