Better Bladesinger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Better Bladesinger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 07:32 PM I'm hoping to make a better bladesinger. The PrC in the Complete Warrior just seems to be lacking something for me that I just can't place. I think I was just expecting a more.....Bardic (??) feel to it.

Anyone have any suggestions? I like the Bladesong style, Lesser spellsong and song of celerity, but the rest just seem to be level fillers.

Thanks, Cheers. :D
The_Shaman
04-14-07, 08:04 PM Well, you could go for a bardic eldritch knight... Now that would, imo, be somewhat novel.
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 08:11 PM Ha, I never thought of that. The thing is, I like some of the original Bladesinger class features, its just that the others seem to lack something.

Thanks.
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 10:59 PM Ok, working on making the new class now. Hope to have it up soon.

Cheers! :D
StevenO
04-14-07, 11:15 PM I'd use two similiar versions of the Bladesinger; the half caster in the Complete Warrior and the one with a self contained casting progression found in one of the Realms books and as a web enhancement for Tome and Blood.

As it is I'd say it already goes fairly well with a combat oriented Bard.
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 11:35 PM I would almost agree, but some of the class features seem dead, it just feels like you give up too much for the benefits.
The_Shaman
04-15-07, 07:00 AM Well, you could just improve the spellcasting progression a little. Also, I remember seeing some 2nd ed book that detailed the bladesinger kit (might have been the PHB, I don't know) and it provided a variable bonus on whether you were full defense, full attack, or measured attack. Maybe you could take the daggerspell stance and adapt it to fit them?
Fabius Maximus
04-15-07, 09:32 AM Look at the Elven Netbook thread in the FR General forums. It has a decent Bladesinger variant.
TheDarkPrince
04-15-07, 01:49 PM Thanks. I think I'll do that. And thanks for the thread tip.
ChaoticGood
04-16-07, 12:16 AM Try the Duskblade from PHB2... assuming you can find a DM who will allow it! :D

Seriously, though, they really should have just reflavored some of the class abilities and called it "the Bladesinger Core Class."
Marcus Majarra
04-16-07, 12:38 AM I agree. The duskblade is the quintessential bladesinger, with good combat ability, combat casting in armor, spell channeling and quickened casting.
Lotus Crane
04-16-07, 01:44 AM Except that an actual Bladesinger (or any proper gish build for that matter) has access to buffs and utility spells, while a duskblade doesn't.

Heck, a psychic warrior better approximates the gish ideal than a duskblade, again, because buffs and utility spells (or powers) are more intrinsic (and useful) to the concept than the bland direct damage that's all the duskblade is capable of.

Is the duskblade more powerful than a Bladesinger? Probably. Is the duskblade a proper gish? No.
Fabius Maximus
04-16-07, 06:11 AM Except that an actual Bladesinger (or any proper gish build for that matter) has access to buffs and utility spells, while a duskblade doesn't.

Heck, a psychic warrior better approximates the gish ideal than a duskblade, again, because buffs and utility spells (or powers) are more intrinsic (and useful) to the concept than the bland direct damage that's all the duskblade is capable of.

Is the duskblade more powerful than a Bladesinger? Probably. Is the duskblade a proper gish? No.

Seconded.
ChaoticGood
04-16-07, 10:56 AM My campaign's resident duskblade casts blade of blood as a swift action, taking the 5 damage to up the power of the spell, then channels shocking grasp and attacks. What do you need buffs for when you can deal 1d8 + manyd6 damage on a successful hit at... uh, 5th level?
Hideous Phidias
04-16-07, 12:27 PM Did anyone say anything about the Bladesinger in Races of Faerun It is a better built I think
Babaganouj
04-18-07, 07:57 PM Did anyone say anything about the Bladesinger in Races of Faerun It is a better built I think

Yes, that is the 3.0 version originally printed in the Web Enhancement to Tome and Blood.
Cold Napalm
04-18-07, 08:34 PM My campaign's resident duskblade casts blade of blood as a swift action, taking the 5 damage to up the power of the spell, then channels shocking grasp and attacks. What do you need buffs for when you can deal 1d8 + manyd6 damage on a successful hit at... uh, 5th level?

Umm 1d8+8d6+3 str+1 magic weapon is umm...not that great at level 5 for damage that's why? Thats a measly 30ish damage at level 5 and that's ALL you can do. A warblade can do as much damage AND have a few other neat tricks. a FIGHTER, yes that weak WEAK class can do more damage. Remember level 8 fighters (6 for humansa) can do hundreds of damage in a round with uber charge builds. Congradulation as a duskblade you can do less damage then the weakest class...oh and thats all you do...right...
Marcus Majarra
04-19-07, 12:47 AM Except that an actual Bladesinger (or any proper gish build for that matter) has access to buffs and utility spells, while a duskblade doesn't.

Heck, a psychic warrior better approximates the gish ideal than a duskblade, again, because buffs and utility spells (or powers) are more intrinsic (and useful) to the concept than the bland direct damage that's all the duskblade is capable of.

Is the duskblade more powerful than a Bladesinger? Probably. Is the duskblade a proper gish? No.

That's because actual Bladesingers merely improve on any existing spellcasting ability. If you look more closely, the class abilities of the Bladesinger resemble those of the Duskblade a lot:

1) Both have Combat Casting.
2) Both cast arcane spells in armor with no spell failure at a certain point.
3) Both get to quicken a fixed number of spells per day at no cost.
4) Both classes have good BAB.

Only a few abilities differ; the concepts are otherwise the same: melee characters who incorporate magic into their fighting style in a "quick" fashion. In essence, the duskblade is what you get when you combine the bladesinger with the spellsword.

Furthermore, I never said the duskblade was a proper gish. I said it was the quintessential bladesinger: someone who blends swordplay and arcane magic into a harmonious whole.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 07:32 PM	I'm hoping to make a better bladesinger. The PrC in the Complete Warrior just seems to be lacking something for me that I just can't place. I think I was just expecting a more.....Bardic (??) feel to it. Anyone have any suggestions? I like the Bladesong style, Lesser spellsong and song of celerity, but the rest just seem to be level fillers. Thanks, Cheers. :D
The_Shaman 04-14-07, 08:04 PM	Well, you could go for a bardic eldritch knight... Now that would, imo, be somewhat novel.
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 08:11 PM	Ha, I never thought of that. The thing is, I like some of the original Bladesinger class features, its just that the others seem to lack something. Thanks.
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 10:59 PM	Ok, working on making the new class now. Hope to have it up soon. Cheers! :D
StevenO 04-14-07, 11:15 PM	I'd use two similiar versions of the Bladesinger; the half caster in the Complete Warrior and the one with a self contained casting progression found in one of the Realms books and as a web enhancement for Tome and Blood. As it is I'd say it already goes fairly well with a combat oriented Bard.
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 11:35 PM	I would almost agree, but some of the class features seem dead, it just feels like you give up too much for the benefits.
The_Shaman 04-15-07, 07:00 AM	Well, you could just improve the spellcasting progression a little. Also, I remember seeing some 2nd ed book that detailed the bladesinger kit (might have been the PHB, I don't know) and it provided a variable bonus on whether you were full defense, full attack, or measured attack. Maybe you could take the daggerspell stance and adapt it to fit them?
Fabius Maximus 04-15-07, 09:32 AM	Look at the Elven Netbook thread in the FR General forums. It has a decent Bladesinger variant.
TheDarkPrince 04-15-07, 01:49 PM	Thanks. I think I'll do that. And thanks for the thread tip.
ChaoticGood 04-16-07, 12:16 AM	Try the Duskblade from PHB2... assuming you can find a DM who will allow it! :D Seriously, though, they really should have just reflavored some of the class abilities and called it "the Bladesinger Core Class."
Marcus Majarra 04-16-07, 12:38 AM	I agree. The duskblade is the quintessential bladesinger, with good combat ability, combat casting in armor, spell channeling and quickened casting.
Lotus Crane 04-16-07, 01:44 AM	Except that an actual Bladesinger (or any proper gish build for that matter) has access to buffs and utility spells, while a duskblade doesn't. Heck, a psychic warrior better approximates the gish ideal than a duskblade, again, because buffs and utility spells (or powers) are more intrinsic (and useful) to the concept than the bland direct damage that's all the duskblade is capable of. Is the duskblade more powerful than a Bladesinger? Probably. Is the duskblade a proper gish? No.
Fabius Maximus 04-16-07, 06:11 AM	Except that an actual Bladesinger (or any proper gish build for that matter) has access to buffs and utility spells, while a duskblade doesn't. Heck, a psychic warrior better approximates the gish ideal than a duskblade, again, because buffs and utility spells (or powers) are more intrinsic (and useful) to the concept than the bland direct damage that's all the duskblade is capable of. Is the duskblade more powerful than a Bladesinger? Probably. Is the duskblade a proper gish? No. Seconded.
ChaoticGood 04-16-07, 10:56 AM	My campaign's resident duskblade casts blade of blood as a swift action, taking the 5 damage to up the power of the spell, then channels shocking grasp and attacks. What do you need buffs for when you can deal 1d8 + manyd6 damage on a successful hit at... uh, 5th level?
Hideous Phidias 04-16-07, 12:27 PM	Did anyone say anything about the Bladesinger in Races of Faerun It is a better built I think
Babaganouj 04-18-07, 07:57 PM	Did anyone say anything about the Bladesinger in Races of Faerun It is a better built I think Yes, that is the 3.0 version originally printed in the Web Enhancement to Tome and Blood.
Cold Napalm 04-18-07, 08:34 PM	My campaign's resident duskblade casts blade of blood as a swift action, taking the 5 damage to up the power of the spell, then channels shocking grasp and attacks. What do you need buffs for when you can deal 1d8 + manyd6 damage on a successful hit at... uh, 5th level? Umm 1d8+8d6+3 str+1 magic weapon is umm...not that great at level 5 for damage that's why? Thats a measly 30ish damage at level 5 and that's ALL you can do. A warblade can do as much damage AND have a few other neat tricks. a FIGHTER, yes that weak WEAK class can do more damage. Remember level 8 fighters (6 for humansa) can do hundreds of damage in a round with uber charge builds. Congradulation as a duskblade you can do less damage then the weakest class...oh and thats all you do...right...
Marcus Majarra 04-19-07, 12:47 AM	Except that an actual Bladesinger (or any proper gish build for that matter) has access to buffs and utility spells, while a duskblade doesn't. Heck, a psychic warrior better approximates the gish ideal than a duskblade, again, because buffs and utility spells (or powers) are more intrinsic (and useful) to the concept than the bland direct damage that's all the duskblade is capable of. Is the duskblade more powerful than a Bladesinger? Probably. Is the duskblade a proper gish? No. That's because actual Bladesingers merely improve on any existing spellcasting ability. If you look more closely, the class abilities of the Bladesinger resemble those of the Duskblade a lot: 1) Both have Combat Casting. 2) Both cast arcane spells in armor with no spell failure at a certain point. 3) Both get to quicken a fixed number of spells per day at no cost. 4) Both classes have good BAB. Only a few abilities differ; the concepts are otherwise the same: melee characters who incorporate magic into their fighting style in a "quick" fashion. In essence, the duskblade is what you get when you combine the bladesinger with the spellsword. Furthermore, I never said the duskblade was a proper gish. I said it was the quintessential bladesinger: someone who blends swordplay and arcane magic into a harmonious whole.