Binder/Warlock PrC: Invoker of the eternal souls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Binder/Warlock PrC: Invoker of the eternal souls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
demonic_dante
09-26-06, 05:00 PM This idea was origianally Wrathamon's (think that is spelled right) but the thread kinda fell apart so I am reposting here.

Invoker of the Eternal Souls
Born to be a conduit for vestiges a warlock can learn that pact magic can be a boon to his innate abilities. Learning that a soul born of eldritch power can be harnessed and shaped into a binding seal, He becomes a living conduit for binding vestiges. In turn these vestiges fuel his fiendish eldritch might.

entry requirements
Alignment: Any nongood
Feat Ability Focus, Improved Binding
Spell or Spell-like Abilities: ability to manifest a 2d6 Eldritch Blast
Special: Ability to bind a 3rd level vestige
Hit Dice: d6

Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Ability
1. 0 0 0 2 Soul Seal / Soul Binding +1 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2. 1 0 0 3 Expel Vestige / Soul Binding +2 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3. 2 1 1 3 / Soul Binding +3 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4. 3 1 1 4 / Soul Binding +4 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
5. 3 1 1 4 Soul power (1/day) / Soul Binding +5 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
6. 4 2 2 5 Soul Prisoner / Soul Binding +6 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7. 5 2 2 5 / Soul Binding +7 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
8. 6 2 2 6 Soul Power (2/day) / Soul Binding +8 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
9. 6 3 3 6 Soul Slave / Soul Binding +9 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
10. 7 3 3 7 Vestige blast / Soul Binding +10 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

Class Skills:
The class skills (and key ability for each skill) are
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: Arcana (Int), Knowledge: The Planes (Int), Knowledge: Religion (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Int).
Skills Points at 1st level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Soul Seal An invoker doesn’t need to draw a seal to summon a vestige. Their soul is used to mimic the effects of a seal. When an invoker attempts to summon a vestige the vestiges seal appears on the chest of the invoker. The vestige then appears as though the seal was drawn 5ft. in front of the invoker, if the invoker should move during summoning the vestige moves as well. When binding a vestige in this manner the invoker can ignore all special requirements.

Expel Vestige You gain this feat as a bonus feat.

Soul Power When a vestige is bound you may empower a spell-like ability as a free action 1/day. This increases to 2/day at 8th level.

Soul Prisoner When you attain 6th you force vestiges into servitude. You become immune to fear effects for as long as a vestige is bound to you (if you already have the soul guardian class feature treat this as the next soul guardian ability). Due to the fear you inspire in weak vestiges (those that are not the highest level you can bind) you take a +5 benefit when making a binding check, however powerful vestiges (those of the highest level you can bind) resent you and you take a -5 penalty when making a binding check involving one of those vestiges.

Soul Slave At 9th level you begin to enslave vestiges, no longer making pacts but forcing them to bind to you. As a standard action you can expel any one vestige. Doing so decreases the wait time between ability uses by one round for the duration of the day. You cannot bind another vestige to replace the one you expelled with this feat. For example a warlock3/binder3/invoker9 that had Amon, Aym, and Leraje bound to him could spend a standard action to expel Aym and for the rest of the day could use the fire breath granted by Amon once every 4 rounds (instead of 5). Your merciless treatment of vestiges causes the weak to submit in fear and the strong to hate and despise you. When binding any vestiges that are at least one level lower than the highest you can bind you automatically make a good pact. When binding vestiges of the highest level you can bind you automatically make a bad pact.

Vestige Blast As a swift action an invoker can expel a bound vestige to power their Eldritch Blast. The Eldritch blast gains a number of dice equal to bound vestiges level + a bonus to damage equal to the Soul Binding bonus/2. This can be done once per day and the vestige expelled in this manor cannot be bound again for 48 hours.

P.S. I know that the bonuses/penalties and auto success/failure that I put in soul prisoner and soul slave is kinda weird but wizards themselves said that influence was really for role playing and didn't have a big game effect, so I thought it was a nice piece of flavor. I have absolutely no problem with taking it out.
QuarianRex
09-26-06, 11:23 PM I have got to say that this is a beautiful class. Nice mix, some minor perks, and flavour out the wazoo.

Well done.
Soel Griffin
09-27-06, 04:06 AM Does the Warlock's blast progression continue? Can't tell from reading....
demonic_dante
09-27-06, 04:57 PM yes, whenever a warlock gets +1 spell casting progression he gets eldritch blast dmg up as well.
utilitarian
09-27-06, 10:07 PM Hmm nice neat little PrC. I'm assuming the +1 binder level works the same as the equivilant class feature from KoTSS or Anima Mage.

Can't see any major problems with it. I like it. Good job balancing the the weak/strong vestige line, though I might perhaps include highest and second highest level vestiges in the "strong" catagory.
Rudiger_Smith
01-22-07, 12:47 AM Congrats on a great class, I am a huge fan of the Binder and Warlock, and ever since I saw that anima mage didn't quite work with Warlock i felt a part of me died.

Now you've cast true ressurection on that part. If you don't mind, I'd love to play one in a game that'll be happening soon.

Balance wise, its roughly balanced like an anima mage, but with higher level pre-requisites. All in all, a great class, well balanced and very flavourful.
nighttree
01-22-07, 11:07 AM I am SOOOOO using this class....(with your kind permission of course ;) ). This is by far the "best" take on a multiclass Warlock/Binder, I have seen so far (IMO).
Great Job........:cheer:
Pallin Rahl
01-22-07, 01:04 PM For a different take on the Binder/Warlock mix... check out my PrC (and comment if you desire) :)

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=773794

---

There are some nice elements in the Invoker of the Eternal Souls, though... agreed. :)
QuarianRex
03-31-07, 08:18 PM :bump: Just a bump for a great class.
Gazrivmar
04-01-07, 09:56 AM I have a PC using a binder in my current campaign and personally I've been having troubles with the binder being a bit powerful. Granted abilities outweigh the influences by a huge amount, and the granted abilities in a lot of cases are unbelieveable, things that are usually templates getting stacked in one class.

I also played beside a warlock and with the right feat selection this PC is hard to consider fair because the abilities he can gain at early levels and use whenever he wants are really good.

At first when I saw this I figured "Ok, he's not allowing the ability to bind multiple vestiges, only higher ones... but the last ability states that you are. To me mixing 2 of the most powerful PC's like this w/o making them every other level is a bit too much. As for that ability that allows you to sacrifice the vestige for a daily bonus, thats a bit harsh considering how much damage you already get from your firebreath. I do think its well composed, just think personally mixing 2 classes that are reputed for being a bit too powerful is asking for a DM to throw in a doppleganger and give you a taste of your own medicine. And I know they did it in Tome of Magic but the extra's they gave were pretty pathetic BECAUSE of the basic awesome power the 2 have. Not having to draw circles is too helpful btw. Some of those reqs are there for a reason.

Not trying to be a bubble burster just figured the other side should have a quick word. Playing it would be fun, but it is a bit much is all I'm saying.
QuarianRex
04-01-07, 01:40 PM Odd perspective. Specifically, what elements of the two classes were you finding to be overpowering in your games? I'm looking for in-game situations, not just replies of "at-will is too powerful".

I have played both classes myself (as a Gestalt Warlock/Binder no less) and "Overpowered" was definitely not a word I would use. A versatile bag full of tricks who can flaunt what power he does have willy-nilly? Absolutely.

A Sorcerer/Wizard with a few blasty-type spells can out damage a Warlock and has more tricks than a Binder. Don't get me wrong, I love the Warlock and the Binder but those classes are not about raw optimization.

In light of this, how do you see this class as being more powerful than the Anima mage?

Also, influences of the Vestiges are meant as flavour, not as a balance against the abilities.
LittleCarp04
04-01-07, 07:05 PM could you help me understand the Soul Blast class feature a bit more? Basically you get extra dice dmg (say from 3 d6 to 5 d6 for a lvl 2 vestige right), and you also get bonus dmg from the soul binding bonus (what is the soul binding bonus? thanks

i love the flavor you put into it, warlock and binder are two of my favorite classes
Gazrivmar
04-01-07, 07:40 PM Well let me start w/ the warlock. Devil's Sight for 1st level. All darkness is moot. and at 2nd level you can detect magic at will and create as much darkness as you please... that you can see perfectly in. Multi-D6 ranged touch attacks added in with this, and it gets nasty. I'm not saying I don't allow them played I'm just saying that they are powerful.

Adding in Binder, the influences are supposed to be debilitating, they are a balance as well as flavor. Because balance adds a lot of flavor. Some influences force you to save vs. beneficial spells, one forces you to not do anything requiring 3 or more round that takes a concentration check, and one forces you to use bluff and intimidate instead of diplomacy. Those are negative effects, IE balancing.
And I stand strong on the necessity of the Circles you draw. The circles are 10 ft., and have unique reqs, you shouldn't just get them, ignoring the thing that makes the vestige difficult to get in the first place.
As for the sheer power, water walking at will is a 4th level vestige, possible to get at 6th class level. Total value of a 6th levels avg. gold is 12k, while a ring of water walking, wasting a slot, is valued at 15k. In my opinion anything that outdoes cash value to such a degree is wrong. Granted rogues get evasion at 2nd, and its much more valuable, but he's stuck w/ what he gets, and thats pretty much one of the best thing he gets. You can take it or not as per your discretion, and when you can take multiple vestiges, you can hold off on one until you know you need whichever ability. Getting all those stacking vestiges later on with multiple higher-level spells useful every 5 rounds is harsh in my opinion.
Like I said though, its all personal opinion, in your game you may enjoy it for those reasons, I like to be challenged and there doesn't seem to be much true balance there.
nighttree
07-16-07, 09:37 PM I have LOVED this PrC since I first found it months ago (thank you Demonic Dante :D ).
I am about to actually stat a character up using this PrC, and was wondering if anything from newer material sprung to mind that I should consider in my build ?

What I have so far...............
Hellbred (soul)
Alternate Warlock and Binder through level six, with "Ignore requirements", "Improved Binding",and " Ability focus" as feats.

I will then be shooting straight through the PrC except for a little break at level 10th through 12th to take Hellfire Warlock.

Anything "spring to mind" ???
nighttree
07-18-07, 09:18 AM Well OK then......:allalone:
frietex
07-19-07, 08:15 PM ever thought about adding the warlock's ability to craft magical items at 12th lvl to this prc? by adding the right vestiges a binder/warlock could create anything and not
spend the feats.
Kaldar_the_Summoner
07-30-07, 04:34 PM FINALLY!! I've been looking for one of these! I've been planning a witch-like Warlock/Binder for a while and was thinking about how to adapt the anima mage. Thank you, sir, for this. You are beautiful.
Sleepwalker13666
08-26-07, 12:14 AM Not bad, not bad at all, one minor suggesstion Instead of listing it as +1 caster level you might change it to +1 Invocation User (thats they way wizards was listing it in complete mage)

This gives me something to consider using after finishing out that Hellfire Warlock with Naberius Combo.

Would you be interested in having this added to the Tome of Secrets?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
demonic_dante 09-26-06, 05:00 PM	This idea was origianally Wrathamon's (think that is spelled right) but the thread kinda fell apart so I am reposting here. Invoker of the Eternal Souls Born to be a conduit for vestiges a warlock can learn that pact magic can be a boon to his innate abilities. Learning that a soul born of eldritch power can be harnessed and shaped into a binding seal, He becomes a living conduit for binding vestiges. In turn these vestiges fuel his fiendish eldritch might. entry requirements Alignment: Any nongood Feat Ability Focus, Improved Binding Spell or Spell-like Abilities: ability to manifest a 2d6 Eldritch Blast Special: Ability to bind a 3rd level vestige Hit Dice: d6 Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Ability 1. 0 0 0 2 Soul Seal / Soul Binding +1 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 2. 1 0 0 3 Expel Vestige / Soul Binding +2 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 3. 2 1 1 3 / Soul Binding +3 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 4. 3 1 1 4 / Soul Binding +4 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 5. 3 1 1 4 Soul power (1/day) / Soul Binding +5 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 6. 4 2 2 5 Soul Prisoner / Soul Binding +6 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 7. 5 2 2 5 / Soul Binding +7 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 8. 6 2 2 6 Soul Power (2/day) / Soul Binding +8 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 9. 6 3 3 6 Soul Slave / Soul Binding +9 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 10. 7 3 3 7 Vestige blast / Soul Binding +10 & +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class Class Skills: The class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: Arcana (Int), Knowledge: The Planes (Int), Knowledge: Religion (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Int). Skills Points at 1st level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Soul Seal An invoker doesn’t need to draw a seal to summon a vestige. Their soul is used to mimic the effects of a seal. When an invoker attempts to summon a vestige the vestiges seal appears on the chest of the invoker. The vestige then appears as though the seal was drawn 5ft. in front of the invoker, if the invoker should move during summoning the vestige moves as well. When binding a vestige in this manner the invoker can ignore all special requirements. Expel Vestige You gain this feat as a bonus feat. Soul Power When a vestige is bound you may empower a spell-like ability as a free action 1/day. This increases to 2/day at 8th level. Soul Prisoner When you attain 6th you force vestiges into servitude. You become immune to fear effects for as long as a vestige is bound to you (if you already have the soul guardian class feature treat this as the next soul guardian ability). Due to the fear you inspire in weak vestiges (those that are not the highest level you can bind) you take a +5 benefit when making a binding check, however powerful vestiges (those of the highest level you can bind) resent you and you take a -5 penalty when making a binding check involving one of those vestiges. Soul Slave At 9th level you begin to enslave vestiges, no longer making pacts but forcing them to bind to you. As a standard action you can expel any one vestige. Doing so decreases the wait time between ability uses by one round for the duration of the day. You cannot bind another vestige to replace the one you expelled with this feat. For example a warlock3/binder3/invoker9 that had Amon, Aym, and Leraje bound to him could spend a standard action to expel Aym and for the rest of the day could use the fire breath granted by Amon once every 4 rounds (instead of 5). Your merciless treatment of vestiges causes the weak to submit in fear and the strong to hate and despise you. When binding any vestiges that are at least one level lower than the highest you can bind you automatically make a good pact. When binding vestiges of the highest level you can bind you automatically make a bad pact. Vestige Blast As a swift action an invoker can expel a bound vestige to power their Eldritch Blast. The Eldritch blast gains a number of dice equal to bound vestiges level + a bonus to damage equal to the Soul Binding bonus/2. This can be done once per day and the vestige expelled in this manor cannot be bound again for 48 hours. P.S. I know that the bonuses/penalties and auto success/failure that I put in soul prisoner and soul slave is kinda weird but wizards themselves said that influence was really for role playing and didn't have a big game effect, so I thought it was a nice piece of flavor. I have absolutely no problem with taking it out.
QuarianRex 09-26-06, 11:23 PM	I have got to say that this is a beautiful class. Nice mix, some minor perks, and flavour out the wazoo. Well done.
Soel Griffin 09-27-06, 04:06 AM	Does the Warlock's blast progression continue? Can't tell from reading....
demonic_dante 09-27-06, 04:57 PM	yes, whenever a warlock gets +1 spell casting progression he gets eldritch blast dmg up as well.
utilitarian 09-27-06, 10:07 PM	Hmm nice neat little PrC. I'm assuming the +1 binder level works the same as the equivilant class feature from KoTSS or Anima Mage. Can't see any major problems with it. I like it. Good job balancing the the weak/strong vestige line, though I might perhaps include highest and second highest level vestiges in the "strong" catagory.
Rudiger_Smith 01-22-07, 12:47 AM	Congrats on a great class, I am a huge fan of the Binder and Warlock, and ever since I saw that anima mage didn't quite work with Warlock i felt a part of me died. Now you've cast true ressurection on that part. If you don't mind, I'd love to play one in a game that'll be happening soon. Balance wise, its roughly balanced like an anima mage, but with higher level pre-requisites. All in all, a great class, well balanced and very flavourful.
nighttree 01-22-07, 11:07 AM	I am SOOOOO using this class....(with your kind permission of course ;) ). This is by far the "best" take on a multiclass Warlock/Binder, I have seen so far (IMO). Great Job........:cheer:
Pallin Rahl 01-22-07, 01:04 PM	For a different take on the Binder/Warlock mix... check out my PrC (and comment if you desire) :) http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=773794 --- There are some nice elements in the Invoker of the Eternal Souls, though... agreed. :)
QuarianRex 03-31-07, 08:18 PM	:bump: Just a bump for a great class.
Gazrivmar 04-01-07, 09:56 AM	I have a PC using a binder in my current campaign and personally I've been having troubles with the binder being a bit powerful. Granted abilities outweigh the influences by a huge amount, and the granted abilities in a lot of cases are unbelieveable, things that are usually templates getting stacked in one class. I also played beside a warlock and with the right feat selection this PC is hard to consider fair because the abilities he can gain at early levels and use whenever he wants are really good. At first when I saw this I figured "Ok, he's not allowing the ability to bind multiple vestiges, only higher ones... but the last ability states that you are. To me mixing 2 of the most powerful PC's like this w/o making them every other level is a bit too much. As for that ability that allows you to sacrifice the vestige for a daily bonus, thats a bit harsh considering how much damage you already get from your firebreath. I do think its well composed, just think personally mixing 2 classes that are reputed for being a bit too powerful is asking for a DM to throw in a doppleganger and give you a taste of your own medicine. And I know they did it in Tome of Magic but the extra's they gave were pretty pathetic BECAUSE of the basic awesome power the 2 have. Not having to draw circles is too helpful btw. Some of those reqs are there for a reason. Not trying to be a bubble burster just figured the other side should have a quick word. Playing it would be fun, but it is a bit much is all I'm saying.
QuarianRex 04-01-07, 01:40 PM	Odd perspective. Specifically, what elements of the two classes were you finding to be overpowering in your games? I'm looking for in-game situations, not just replies of "at-will is too powerful". I have played both classes myself (as a Gestalt Warlock/Binder no less) and "Overpowered" was definitely not a word I would use. A versatile bag full of tricks who can flaunt what power he does have willy-nilly? Absolutely. A Sorcerer/Wizard with a few blasty-type spells can out damage a Warlock and has more tricks than a Binder. Don't get me wrong, I love the Warlock and the Binder but those classes are not about raw optimization. In light of this, how do you see this class as being more powerful than the Anima mage? Also, influences of the Vestiges are meant as flavour, not as a balance against the abilities.
LittleCarp04 04-01-07, 07:05 PM	could you help me understand the Soul Blast class feature a bit more? Basically you get extra dice dmg (say from 3 d6 to 5 d6 for a lvl 2 vestige right), and you also get bonus dmg from the soul binding bonus (what is the soul binding bonus? thanks i love the flavor you put into it, warlock and binder are two of my favorite classes
Gazrivmar 04-01-07, 07:40 PM	Well let me start w/ the warlock. Devil's Sight for 1st level. All darkness is moot. and at 2nd level you can detect magic at will and create as much darkness as you please... that you can see perfectly in. Multi-D6 ranged touch attacks added in with this, and it gets nasty. I'm not saying I don't allow them played I'm just saying that they are powerful. Adding in Binder, the influences are supposed to be debilitating, they are a balance as well as flavor. Because balance adds a lot of flavor. Some influences force you to save vs. beneficial spells, one forces you to not do anything requiring 3 or more round that takes a concentration check, and one forces you to use bluff and intimidate instead of diplomacy. Those are negative effects, IE balancing. And I stand strong on the necessity of the Circles you draw. The circles are 10 ft., and have unique reqs, you shouldn't just get them, ignoring the thing that makes the vestige difficult to get in the first place. As for the sheer power, water walking at will is a 4th level vestige, possible to get at 6th class level. Total value of a 6th levels avg. gold is 12k, while a ring of water walking, wasting a slot, is valued at 15k. In my opinion anything that outdoes cash value to such a degree is wrong. Granted rogues get evasion at 2nd, and its much more valuable, but he's stuck w/ what he gets, and thats pretty much one of the best thing he gets. You can take it or not as per your discretion, and when you can take multiple vestiges, you can hold off on one until you know you need whichever ability. Getting all those stacking vestiges later on with multiple higher-level spells useful every 5 rounds is harsh in my opinion. Like I said though, its all personal opinion, in your game you may enjoy it for those reasons, I like to be challenged and there doesn't seem to be much true balance there.
nighttree 07-16-07, 09:37 PM	I have LOVED this PrC since I first found it months ago (thank you Demonic Dante :D ). I am about to actually stat a character up using this PrC, and was wondering if anything from newer material sprung to mind that I should consider in my build ? What I have so far............... Hellbred (soul) Alternate Warlock and Binder through level six, with "Ignore requirements", "Improved Binding",and " Ability focus" as feats. I will then be shooting straight through the PrC except for a little break at level 10th through 12th to take Hellfire Warlock. Anything "spring to mind" ???
nighttree 07-18-07, 09:18 AM	Well OK then......:allalone:
frietex 07-19-07, 08:15 PM	ever thought about adding the warlock's ability to craft magical items at 12th lvl to this prc? by adding the right vestiges a binder/warlock could create anything and not spend the feats.
Kaldar_the_Summoner 07-30-07, 04:34 PM	FINALLY!! I've been looking for one of these! I've been planning a witch-like Warlock/Binder for a while and was thinking about how to adapt the anima mage. Thank you, sir, for this. You are beautiful.
Sleepwalker13666 08-26-07, 12:14 AM	Not bad, not bad at all, one minor suggesstion Instead of listing it as +1 caster level you might change it to +1 Invocation User (thats they way wizards was listing it in complete mage) This gives me something to consider using after finishing out that Hellfire Warlock with Naberius Combo. Would you be interested in having this added to the Tome of Secrets?