Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perseus_Stoned 03-27-07, 12:14 AM	Hey, I had a couple of questions about "The Champion" and figured this was the place to come to ask them. (For those unfamiliar with what "The Champion" class is, just go here: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/mYkD5jL8N9SAcClN3pZ.html Its a really amazing base class with a ton of flavor I'm interested in pursuing. I like the class, but was a little disappointed with how unwelcome it was to working other class designs in with it, but I want to keep the class true to how it was made, so here's my questions: 1) Have you or do you know of anyone who has ever designed a prestige class for it? If so, where could I find it? 2) Do you have any suggestions for a "Champion" prestige class? I guess giving the Avatar access to certain class abilities and divine spell casting would be a few; does anyone have any others?
Osedox 03-27-07, 11:39 AM	I would try looking on the Giant in the Playground forums there you might actualy get something from the Giant himself.
Perseus_Stoned 03-27-07, 01:41 PM	I would try looking on the Giant in the Playground forums there you might actualy get something from the Giant himself. I had searched all threads there and only found one actually about "The Champion", though I hadn't considered asking "The Giant" himself... I guess the only qualm I have about that is I just don't want to have to register a new account. I'll head over there, but if anyone has anything to contribute there that'd be great.
Onikani 03-27-07, 01:48 PM	the whole time i read this all i could think of were the words... BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL!!!!! looks like a cool class, but i don't think its the type of class you would want to PrC in. It seems solid enough on its own.
Perseus_Stoned 03-28-07, 06:32 PM	the whole time i read this all i could think of were the words... BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL!!!!! looks like a cool class, but i don't think its the type of class you would want to PrC in. It seems solid enough on its own. I mostly just want to PrC in it for flavor/fun reasons; I think 20 straight levels might be a boring, so if I could get a few options at certain levels, I'd be happier.
Jaxgaret 03-28-07, 08:23 PM	I like the class Do you have any suggestions for a "Champion" prestige class? I guess giving the Avatar access to certain class abilities and divine spell casting would be a few; does anyone have any others? Firstly, I love almost everything Rich Burlew does. However, this is not one of those times; I feel that the Champion class sorely needs remaking from this incarnation. Why should a character who is "a common man able to call upon the persona of a mighty avatar" have anything other than Commoner stats while in non-Avatar form? That is after all what the common man is. Instead they get Cleric BAB, d8 HD, and good Will saves, plus spellcasting. Just doesn't jive with the concept. Anyway, now that I've said my piece, it should be pretty simple to adapt any existing PrC for this class. An easy solution is to say that if a Champion takes any PrC, they continue gaining the Champion's benefits while in non-Avatar form, and the PrC's benefits in Avatar form in place of the normal Avatar benefit progression.
Perseus_Stoned 03-28-07, 08:30 PM	Firstly, I love almost everything Rich Burlew does. However, this is not one of those times; I feel that the Champion class sorely needs remaking from this incarnation. Why should a character who is "a common man able to call upon the persona of a mighty avatar" have anything other than Commoner stats while in non-Avatar form? That is after all what the common man is. Instead they get Cleric BAB, d8 HD, and good Will saves, plus spellcasting. Just doesn't jive with the concept. Those are all really good points. Either the flavor or the mechanics should be changed to reflect this; I have my own qualms with the class design as well and am planning on implementing a home-brewed class based heavily around "The Champion" instead. Anyway, now that I've said my piece, it should be pretty simple to adapt any existing PrC for this class. An easy solution is to say that if a Champion takes any PrC, they continue gaining the Champion's benefits while in non-Avatar form, and the PrC's benefits in Avatar form in place of the normal Avatar benefit progression. Yeap, mostly exactly what I put. I had BAB, ability scores, skills, and HD stay constant- everything else (fly speed, damage reduction, spellcasting, etc.) stays under "The Champion" to give incentive to continue taking levels in it. It sounds like you have some experience with "The Champion". Is this from simply spending a few minutes reading over the class (as many do with all of Burlew's materials) or have you played it/witnessed someone play it? If so what sort of things happened gamewise that were unique to the champion?
Jaxgaret 03-28-07, 08:40 PM	Those are all really good points. Either the flavor or the mechanics should be changed to reflect this; I have my own qualms with the class design as well and am planning on implementing a home-brewed class based heavily around "The Champion" instead. Thank you. Good gaming! :) It sounds like you have some experience with "The Champion". Is this from simply spending a few minutes reading over the class (as many do with all of Burlew's materials) or have you played it/witnessed someone play it? If so what sort of things happened gamewise that were unique to the champion? No experience with it whatsoever - just read it over, months ago when I first saw it on giantitp.com and a second time when I came upon your thread.