Post/Author/DateTime	Post
big_squirrel 11-28-07, 02:56 PM	I don't know if anyone else has had the problem, but my arcane caster lacks any sort of usefulness in certain situations. Whether it be because my spells run out or I have no useful spells for the situation, there are times when I would like ot have some melee power so I don't end up being nothing more than a mild distraction for the badies. I know this isn't particularly original, but I couldn't find any prestige classes that granted spellcasting progession and added sneak attack damage that didn't have sneak attack as a prerequisite. I could multi-class into rogue or spellthief or something, I know, but there would be wasted abilities going into those classes, and it would eat at my spells known and caster level too much. This PrC is designed to allow arcane and divine casters to qualify. I don't know much about divine casting classes, but I'm sure there are divine casters out there that wouldn't mind getting a little more melee prowess. So, all that being rather unnecessarily said, this is my idea: -Rogue’s base attack bonus and saves -No armor or weapon proficiencies gained -five-level total progression: -second, third and fourth levels grants +1 level to existing spell-casting class (for spells known and spells per day) -first, third and fifth levels grant sneak attack +1d6 (stacks with other sneak attack damage sources) -first level: Insightful Aim (adds the key ability modifier from the previous spellcasting class [wisdom for cleric, charisma for bard and sorcerer, intelligence for wizard, etc.] to attack rolls with daggers, maces [light or heavy], short swords, short-bows, and crossbows [hand and light]) -fifth level: Insightful Damage (adds the key ability modifier from the previous spellcasting class to damage dealt, and stacks with any bonus damage from strength. This bonus only applies to attacks made with daggers, maces [light or heavy], short swords, short-bows, and crossbows [hand and light].) There would be no proficiencies gained, the HD would only be a d6, and the class would get 2 +int mod skill points per level. I haven't figured what all class skills should be included, but I tried to pull mostly from the rogue skill list with a couple others added in that are common to most casters. So far, I have: Concentration, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Disguise, Hide, Knowledge (arcana) or Knowledge (religion) {depending on whether the class being used to qualify for this class casts arcane or divine spells}, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spellcraft, Spot The prerequisites are fairly loose right now, but I think it's pretty fair because there aren't any real crazy powerful abilities. Anyway, prerequisites- Must be non-lawful in alignment Able to cast second level spells, including three Divination spells and four spells from either of the Illusion or Enchantment schools Eight ranks in Concentration, four ranks in knowledge (arcana) if coming from an arcane casting class or knowledge (religion) if coming from a divine casting class, and at least 6 ranks in four of the following skills: bluff, diplomacy, hide, move silently, scry, sense motive, spellcraft Must be proficient with either the short bow or crossbow (hand or light), and at least two of the following weapons: dagger, mace (light or heavy), short sword The class doesn't have a name yet- I'll worry about that after I figure out if this is balanced. I'm not really looking for "if you want a more versatile caster, you should..." or "why not just go eldritch knight" or "multiclass into factotum- it's the super keen!" responses, just honest evaluations of whether or not this class is balanced. I know putting a caster in melee range is not the best idea, but sometimes it can't be helped, and if I get my caster close enough to melee something, I'll sure as hell be there with someone else flanking the enemy, so sneak attack seems like a decent idea. I'm also working with a limited number of supplemental books and the DM doesn't want our characters getting too complicated, so I can't bounce around between rogue, unseen seer, arcane trickster, spellthief, so on and so on, but one small prestige class might be allowed, so I'm going with this idea. Er... that's all.
Dog_O_War 11-28-07, 03:02 PM	Could you please post your first three paragraphs in this thread? http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=951742&page=19 That would be really helpful, and people there would be more than willing to help you out.
dman11235 11-28-07, 04:02 PM	You do realize that there is the Arcane Trickster. You seem to realize that it requires some SA to get into, so it's a three level dip. However, you lose spell casting anyway with what you proposed. It is also full spell casting. Oh, and clerics don't need a damage boost.
teamfireyleader 11-28-07, 04:28 PM	My first impression would be NO WAY (if you're are using the magic system i use anyway, ask if you want to hear it) then i think "which schools have hold and dominate spells? just don't allow them." so that's what i'd do. If you insist though then that is a good idea so do that.
big_squirrel 11-28-07, 10:30 PM	Dog o War- I'll pop over to that thread, thanks for letting me know where to go^^ dman- I know about Arcane Trickster, but it has worked out that my base casting class doesn't have mage hand and can't get it without having to take a dip into sorcerer or wizard as well as rogue, losing another caster level. I was planning for a certain type of character, and now that I've played it, I realize there are certain situations where my character ends up crawling on the walls and cheering everyone else on, but I can't remake everything now (unless my character dies, which probably won't happen very soon), so I'm trying to plan for a bit further along. My idea loses two caster levels, whereas I would need to lose four to get Arcane Trickster, which was why I haven't jumped at that option. And clerics may not need an attack boost, but other divine casters might benefit- as I said, I don't know much about divine casters, so it may not be worth it for any of them.
dman11235 11-28-07, 11:03 PM	There's an item called Hand of the Mage. It's in the DMG. Mage hand at will. And no divine caster needs a melee boost. Might I ask what kind of caster are you? That would help.
big_squirrel 11-28-07, 11:38 PM	Does casting from an item like that qualify for entry into a PrC? If it does, I didn't know about that, and I wish I had. (Even if it does, I'd have to pass it with the DM, who may not allow it, but it's worth a shot.) And that item might prove useful for my character, so I'll have to snag one at some point no matter what else happens. I'm playing a Beguiler right now. Every time I've said that before, people freak about not losing caster levels and point at mindbender and unseen seer, but my DM probably wouldn't allow me to take that many random dips into other classes (and I don't know if I would want to do it anyway), but the problem is that I keep coming up against mobs with disgustingly high will saves or outright immunity to my spells and all I can do is slap mage armor on someone, crawl into a corner and cry until the battle ends. And I bow to your superior knowledge of divine casters. I've only ever seen one druid and one sort of favored soul (maybe, he isn't telling what class he is) played, so I'm more than willing not to argue the point. It'll be easy enough to take out any divine references if I keep going with this idea, so no problem there.
dman11235 11-29-07, 01:41 AM	It's been debated heavily whether or not the Hand of the Mage lets you qualify for Arcane Trickster, but I say it does. Also, what level are you? Primary casting stat? Since you're a beguiler, you get cloaked casting. Also, spell focus (illusion) or (enchantment) can actually be USEFUL to you, because of cloaked casting (normally a +1 to the save doesn't matter much). And I say pooh on those people. Beguiler is one of the full casters that actually works even if you lose caster levels. It's not like sorcerer where if you give up caster levels you're commiting suicide. Also, with your advanced learning, pick up some of the shadow conjuration line. That will help. A lot. Yeah, and I've never played an arcane caster (wanted to, but couldn't).
Dog_O_War 11-29-07, 10:35 AM	Sorry big_squirrel, I had a double agenda with you posting your question in the other thread :evillaugh But since you did post over there, I will dedicate my time to helping you with your problem. I have some questions though, before I can help; What are your class levels (that is all classes and levels you currently posses)? What feats do you currently have? What books are you able to use, or if you have a big selection, what books are you NOT able to use?
Mandarbgrim 11-29-07, 11:04 AM	Perhaps design it as a Beguiler only PRC? That allows the PRC to be more powerful, because you know exactly how much the abilities could potentially be exploited. Example: Sneak Attack stacks with few if any of the Beguilers damage spells <I don't have the PHB2 on me.> Sneak Attack is a good area to branch into, but creating a Beguiler only PRC that has some Fort Save or no save Debuffs also seems a good idea. I was thinking of a PRC that branches into the Hexblade area...providing the Shadow companion & Bonus spells known from a short list of Necromancy spells. Or combine the two ideas. My suggestion to your actual problem, your beguiler being useless in certain situations, would be to ask your DM if he is throwing them intentionally at you <If it really is occuring often enough for you to contemplate losing Caster Levels over it.> or it is simply the plot. The suggestion following that is to use Magic Items to solve the issue. A decent weapon with an array of Weapon Crystals or a Bane Enchantment. UMD+Wands with blasting spells or debuffs that don't have saves. An Eternal Wand of Mass Snake's Swiftness.
big_squirrel 11-29-07, 11:51 AM	Okay, basic info- Beguiler level 5 (intelligence is key modifier) Feats- Able Learner, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint Books- the DM has the three core books, meaning PHB, MM and DMG, as well as the Book of Vile Darkness, and I have the core three and the PHBII. I've seen bits and pieces from a few books (enough to see the able learner feat, for instance), but I'm mostly using an occasional small something from the other stuff as inspiration. dman-I was planning to get spell focus illusion when I hit level 6^^ I know a point or two to DC won't sway the battle, but I'm obviosly pretty desperate for any help I can get. And I was also looking into the shadow spell stuff, but I won't be able to get any of it for at least three more levels because of the spell level, and if all three levels are in beguiler, I'd have to wait another three levels before the next advanced learning comes around. dog o war- I've been a part of other evil plots, so no worries there. mandarbgrim- beguiler doesn't have any spells that deal lethal damage, and not many that are non-lethal. I could make this PrC beguiler-specific, but I'm trying to keep it a bit open in case my character dies and I end up with the same troubles with another arcane casting class (I like the arcane casters, what can I say). I went with reflex save for two reasons: first, it fits with the rogue-like idea that inspired the PrC; and second, it's the one I've had to use most often so far in the game. It's kind of cheap, I know, but when there's always a trap or flying bits of masonry or the like, my character always seems to get caught in it. The DM is going by a pre-made book, too, so I know he's not being mean, and we don't have weapon crystals in the game, but I have suggested it (and the DM liked it). My character is currently pretty poor, and we haven't come accross much by way of magic items, but I can defenitely read more about them and try to come up with a dream list.
Dog_O_War 11-29-07, 12:23 PM	Okay, since I'm at work right now, it'll be at least six hours before I can formulate a proper response. Since I never liked the Beguiler class (nothing to do with mechanics; I rarely disallow a class because of them. It's the flavor that bugs me) I'll have to re-read it to better refresh it's capabilities. For now though, since if favor creating a build around a character (rather than pasting a character on a build) what is your character's motivations, and what is your over-all goal with this guy? This will help me better understand what flavoring you need. It may be advantageous for you to get ahold of the Tome of Magic for some of the binder feats. Ofcourse, this is just a suggestion.
Mandarbgrim 11-29-07, 12:36 PM	Interesting...I really liked the Beguiler's flavor. To each their own. What bugged me about them is the INT as primary attribute. Both because of the Enchantment spells, fluff, and the Spontanious casting. So...you want a Rogue version of the E. Knight?
Dog_O_War 11-29-07, 01:09 PM	Interesting...I really liked the Beguiler's flavor. To each their own. What bugged me about them is the INT as primary attribute. Both because of the Enchantment spells, fluff, and the Spontanious casting. So...you want a Rogue version of the E. Knight? It's mainly from bad experiences. The games I grew up with ALWAYS had monsters make their saves versus mind-controlling effects, while seemingly even on the roll of a twenty, you'd fail yours (well, you would succeed, but then the enemy would just use the exact same ability next round.:mad: Likelyhood of me rolling 2 twenties in a row? 0%:weep: ) As such, I hate using spells like that on my players, while my own weakness for having them succeed would bar the class that does those things from ruining my own game. Kinda like staying away from chocolate because it makes you fat. This is also why I give up the enchantment school for every specialist wizard I've ever made, without even thinking twice.
big_squirrel 11-29-07, 03:33 PM	My character concept is centered around the ability to manipulate and trick people, and also being able to sneak about pretty well and get in locked places. He's a con-man and a thief, so the beguiler class seemed like a good way to go. I've done some interesting stuff with it already, but all of the interesting stuff is out-of-battle things. If DnD was solely about messing with people in a town with the occasional fight, my character would damn near be perfect. There are some good illusion and enchantment spells out there, and I'm glad I have them and other abilities beguiler provides, and while having charisma be the key modifier would make more sense with this class's flavor, I have to admit I like being able to increase my skill points gained and spellcasting potency with just one stat.^^ And pretty much, yes, a rogue version of eldritch knight is what I aimed for, but I wanted to be able to go into the class without taking a level of something else first, like having to take a random level of fighter to get into eldritch knight. I thought about going eldritch knight for a while, but it seems more flavored for, say, a warmage or a wizard focused on evocation, the kinds of casters who go for honest and upfront fighting rather than the sneaky approach of the beguiler.
Dog_O_War 11-29-07, 05:58 PM	Okay, I re-read the Beguiler. Multiclass. It's the only way you can get what you want without a splat book. Creating a prestige class is good 'an all, but rarely will a DM accept a class that someone posted on the internet. I would suggest looking into the book Complete Mage. There is a class called Unseen Seer, which has all the qualifications you've asked for. Though if you insist on creating a PrC, I will help you out with this venture, though I highly recommend talking with the DM first on whether or not this will be a valid choice once finished.
dman11235 11-29-07, 06:03 PM	I still say that three level dip into rogue would be worth it to get into Arcane Trickster. You also pretty much are not going to be able to have full casting AND other damge potential. That's reserved for divine casters (they pay for it with a less damaging spell list, but let's not go there now). Unfortunately, the methods of gaining spells on your spell list (aside from advanced learning) are all in books you don't own. BoED and Sandstorm have the Exalted Arcanist and the Sandshaper. There are other ways, but they are pretty obscure iirc. The other thing is, beguilers don't do this sort of thing. They sneak. And they illuse and enchant. And again, if you look at the spell list, appropriate use of the spells will end up with save or lose mostly. You can't expect to have them fail every save. Now, if their will saves are on the order of +9 or 10 at that level, I'd have to say something's up. Granted, I've played a mongrelfolk barbarian/monk with that high a will save against enchantment, but that's a special case. I had +10 against enchantment while raging. He was sort of made to be unkillable. So, if you can't make them fail a single save, they are all imune, etc., talk to your DM about it, you may wish to change characters if it would continue (as in, the entire campaign revolves around constructs or something).
Mandarbgrim 11-29-07, 06:03 PM	I don't think that having a level of Rogue or whatever will be necessary. You can just build that cost straight into the PRC. So..what is the flavor of the PRC itself? It needs to have something better going for it than Arcane Rogue in my opinion... Like the Arcane Trickster has the Ranged Legerdemain. I would suggest a concept ability to center it around. Current Thoughts: Shadow Stalker: Dark Companion Effect when close. Increase DC of Will Save Spells when you hit them? Sudden Strike Damage. Temporal Blade: Modified Haste ability+Sneak Attack Arcane Striker: A modified Arcane Strike. 1 Strike for a lot of damage. Phantom Blade: Illusion spells that buff and don't allow Will Saves. Divination based Warrior: True Strike and those kind of spells. Truesight? Braggart: Concentration upon Goading, Feinting, & Distraction. Mind-drainer: Turn Spells into Melee strikes that deal mental ability score damage? Edit: Have you thought about uses for Arcane Strike? I was going to make a character centered around it before...and thought Bequiler and Dread Necromancer may be the best for the spell
dman11235 11-29-07, 06:34 PM	That just reminded me. There are illusions which don't allow for a save unless interacted with. They can help. They even affect mindless creatures.
big_squirrel 11-29-07, 06:41 PM	dog o war- I may be able to at least go skim through Complete Mage sometime to see what it has to offer, but I don't have a lot of extra cash around for DnD books, so I probably won't be able to get it. And I'd really like to make this PrC work, but I don't know much about how to design these things. I'm pretty sure the DM will allow it- another friend of ours is playing a class he found on the internet, and the DM is pretty cool about accepting new stuff, but making serious changes (like a whole new character) would probably not be allowed. dman- I know I can't have full casting and extra damage, and that doesn't bother me much, but I'd like to keep as much casting as possible. The PrC idea I have loses two caster levels instead of the three I would lose going the rogue/arcane trickster route, and my DM probably wouldn't allow hand of the mage to quallify me for arcane trickster, so that's another level lost to some other class. And while I'm not losing every spell I cast because the enemy has good saves, they're making them more than three-quarters of the time so far. mandarbgrim- I'm trying to make the class focus on stealth, and my goal is to have it grant sneak attack damage without requiring it to qualify for the class. I think I want the class feel like an arcane thief or assassin, never giving someone a fair fight, but I'm not really interested in any other rogue abilities, which is one reason I haven't gone ahead and multi-classed into rogue. And what's arcane strike? That sounds like it could be something interesting.
big_squirrel 11-29-07, 06:52 PM	dman, most of those are shadow illusions. I've looked into those, and plan to make use of them, but it'll be several levels (six, I'm pretty sure, but somewhere in there for definite) before I can get any of the ones I've seen. They are badass, though- one fifth level spell that can mimic any sor/wiz evocation spell of forth level and lower? Yeah, defenitely badass.
dman11235 11-29-07, 07:37 PM	Minor and Major image. Those sorts as well. Well, when you do get the chance to get a shadow spell, take conjuration. It's just better. Also, orbs rock. Also, another thing to consider would be actually asking your DM. If you haven't, I'd strongly suggest that you do so. Another thing to ask (whether or not he says yes or no) would be to add mage hand to the beguiler spell list. Because I have no idea why it's not on there. I actually thought "Beguiler? Mage hand is on the list!" only to have my hopes and dreams shattered when I found out it wasn't. Because generally, if your DM will allow a homebrew, he'll allow at least one of these. Arcane strike is pretty much a must have feat for you if you want melee potential. Heck, just taking that feat and you won't worry about getting SA. It's from CArcane, so that's why I haven't suggested it (you said you don't have access to it). You expend spell slots for a boost to both damage and attack. Oh, and one more thing, you should read On the Philosophy of Class Design (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55947) if you want to create a new class. It works almost the same with prestige classes, so give it a read through. Particularly the first part.
Dog_O_War 11-29-07, 08:16 PM	Illusory Fencer Requirements Skills: bluff 8 ranks, sense motive 4 ranks, spellcraft 4 ranks, tumble 4 ranks Feats: Combat Expertise, Weapon Proficiency(Rapier), Weapon Focus (Rapier) Special: must be able to cast arcane spells, one of which must be Mirror Image. Hit dice: d6. Skills (4+int): Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge(arcana), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Tumble. BAB: 3/4 (+0,+1,+2,+3,+3) Saves: Good Ref and Will (+2,+3,+3,+4,+4) Poor Fort (+0,+0,+1,+1,+1) Spellcasting: +1 arcane casting level at 2 and 4. Level one ability - Duplicity(Su):* At first level an Illusuory Fencer can create a mirror image of himself (as the spell) at will. This double Functions exactly as the mirror image spell, except only one conjuered, and may be summoned any number of times per day. Level two ability - Sneak Attack +1d6. Level three ability - Illusory Strike(Su):** At third level an Illusory Fencer can strike with erie accuracy. Once per day per class level, any attack the fencer performs may instead strike through a mirror image, with a special +4 bonus to the attack roll because of the unexpected strike. This may be through his double or through a mirror image spell he has cast. Level four ability - Sneal Attack +2d6. Level five ability - Shadowy Twin(Su):*** At fifth level, his twin of Duplicity becomes infused with shadow stuff, as if he were conjuered via a shadow conjueration spell. This shadowy double has an AC similar to a mirror image, plus a bonus equal to the fencer's primary casting ability. Any time the fencer would hit with an attack, so does his duplicate; this adds an additional 1d6 points worth of damage. This bonus damage is a magical force effect. The Shadowy duplicate has hit points equal to 1/5 the caster's. The duplicate must always attack the same target as the fencer. If the duplicate is "killed" before he is dismissed, he cannot summon another one for 1 hour, though he may conjuer a normal mirror image. If the shadowy duplicate was injured and then dismissed, this "damage" repairs itself after 1 hour. *I just thought an ability like this would be pretty cool, so I worked it into a class. **This ability may allow strikes normally out of reach, and thanks to images being able to flank, may deny the target his dex. bonus to AC. Additionally, because of the unique supernatural effect involved, creatures normally able to see through illusions can still be struck with this ability, and may still count as flanked if they normally would be. ***The shadow twin is a buff to the mirror image ability; because mirror image may be negated (and often will be) at higher level, I added this to keep the abilities from becoming useless. Also, I thought it was pretty cool. So this is what I propose. It may need some tweeking, and will need some fluff (as I haven't given any), but I stand by my creation. I didn't just design a class with everything you'd asked for obviously; I went more for something that had a neat concept, and that would have a really cool theme to it. I also strive for balance; as you can see, the illusory strike could be quite potent for a character that had mainly rogue levels; that is why it's limited to levels/per day. The Duplicity; while only one image is conjuered, is still enough to provide a flank bonus, as well as a miss-chance. I may re-post this as a p.e.a.c.h. on these forums, depending on feed-back here.
dman11235 11-29-07, 09:22 PM	There we go. A concept rather than just "I want damage". And a good one at that. Please post as PEACH.
big_squirrel 11-30-07, 01:24 AM	I like that very much. Defenitely post it, I'd say. I only have three points I'd bring up about it- first, can Duplicity and Shadowy Twin be used at the same time, and can either be used with Mirror Image also in effect? Second, can the Illusory Fencer immediately recreate the Shadowy Twin if the Shadowy Twin is dismissed without being damaged? Lastly, can the Shadowy Twin's health be recovered in any way, or does it have to be dismissed/destroyed to get back the HP? What are the prerequisites and details for Arcane Strike? That seems to be almost exactly what I was after all along. Then again, now you guys have me thinking in odd ways about custom classes, so I'll probably keep messing with these things, and that Illusory Fencer sounds interesting enough that I'm defenitely going to keep an eye on how it developes. Hey... I had a concept in my original post... I just didn't organize it well :P I may reorganize it, rework it and re-post it in this thread at some point.
dman11235 11-30-07, 01:46 AM	Can't post that here, it's not OGL. Oh, and it's in CWarrior, not CArcane. Here (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf) is a more detailed description (page 59, near the bottom, under Arcane Caster feats). Or apparently here (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Arcane_Strike,CW) works too.
Dog_O_War 11-30-07, 10:28 AM	I like that very much. Defenitely post it, I'd say. I only have three points I'd bring up about it- first, can Duplicity and Shadowy Twin be used at the same time, and can either be used with Mirror Image also in effect? Second, can the Illusory Fencer immediately recreate the Shadowy Twin if the Shadowy Twin is dismissed without being damaged? Lastly, can the Shadowy Twin's health be recovered in any way, or does it have to be dismissed/destroyed to get back the HP? What are the prerequisites and details for Arcane Strike? That seems to be almost exactly what I was after all along. Then again, now you guys have me thinking in odd ways about custom classes, so I'll probably keep messing with these things, and that Illusory Fencer sounds interesting enough that I'm defenitely going to keep an eye on how it developes. Hey... I had a concept in my original post... I just didn't organize it well :P I may reorganize it, rework it and re-post it in this thread at some point. I'll answer all the questions you have in the Illusory Fencer thread.
Mandarbgrim 11-30-07, 08:28 PM	Temporal Blade: A Temporal Blade starts by using raw arcane energy to defy the laws of motion throught the manipulation of time. Pushing himself faster and faster he risks disconnection from the flow of time itself. Prerequisites: The ability to cast 3rd lvl spells, 2 Ranks in Tumble, Feats: C. Expertise, I. Feint, HD 6 BAB 3/4 Normal SAVES Good- Reflex, Will Bad- Fort Skill Points 4 Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Knowledge <Arcana>, Listen, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Spot, Swim, Tumble, 1 Burst of Speed: A Temporal Blade can expend a prepared spell or a spell slot as a swift action in order to gain minor bonuses. This ability does not stack with haste. The duration of this ability is 1 round per level of spell expended. Benefit: +10 Movement Speed, +2 Insight bonus to Dexterity Insightful Tumble: Gain INT modifier instead of DEX to Tumble checks. <Or CHA equivalent Canny Tumble.> Spell Known Gained: Lesser Deflect, 2 +1 Level of Spellcasting Class +1d6 Sneak Attack Damage 3 Unnatural Quickness: At 3rd lvl a Temporal Blade becomes more secure in his manipulation of motion. The numerical benefits of his Burst of Speed ability double. Additionally he gains an extra attack with melee weapons on a full attack action. These abilities do not stack with Haste. Spell Known Gained: Deflect 4 +1 Level of Spellcasting Class +1d6 Sneak Attack Damage 5 Temporal Acceleration: At 5th lvl a Temporal Blade accelerates the time flow around him to such an extent that he now exists the crest between the present and future. Benefit: Haste now stacks with the Temporal Blades Temporal Acceleration ability. The Insight Bonus to DEX increased to +6 & the speed bonus increases to +30. Additionally, all effects have a chance of not affecting him. He gains a 20% miss chance against anything that targets his armor class or requires a save unless they are ongoing effects that he would be affected by next round as well. A good example is a Dragon’s Frightful Presence. This effect also applies against beneficial effects, such as Healing spells. Spell Known Gained: Haste Spells Known: If the Temporal Blade was a spontaneous caster he now gains these spells to his list of spells known. If he was a prepared caster he now gains greater diversity and can expend a prepared spell in order to cast these spells spontaneously. I'm worried that the capstone ability is overpowered, But they are giving up 3 caster levels for it. It seems like this PRC could be extended to 10 levels if I started adding in Celerity effects and "Regression" effects.
Mandarbgrim 11-30-07, 09:02 PM	Mind Stalker A Mind Stalker hones his ability to influence others. Instead of the blunt trauma of a Enchantment spell he opts for subtle precision in his influence in order to slip past an enemies mental guardians. A Mindstriker focuses upon subtley altering an opponents perception and slipping past their guard to strike deep into their mind. Requirements: C. Experties, I. Feint, 2 Ranks of Hide, The ability to cast 3rd lvl spells. Must know atleast 5 Enchantment spells. HD 6 Skill Points 4 Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Hide, Knowledge <Arcana>, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Tumble, Arcane Caster Level: Increases at 1,3,5 1 Fade from Thought (SU): A Mind Stalker can now Hide with a Bluff check. This follows the normal rules for Hide checks except that it doesn't work against unintelligent foes. 2 Lesser MindStrike: As a standard action a Mind Stalker can expend a prepared spell or spell slot in order to perform a melee strike that harms an opponents mind as well as body. A lesser mindstrike does mental ability score damage equal to the level of the spell expended to a max of +2 to any singe mental ability score. Mindstrike also confers a bonus to hit and normal damage equal to the level of the spell expended. 3 Dark Presence: The threat of a Mindstriker's blades confer a -2 penalty to Will Saves & AC to enemies that they are flanking. Enemies immune to Flanking ignore this effect. 4 Greater MindStrike: As lesser Mindstrike but activation of this ability is a swift action, but still only effects a single attack. The max damage to any single mental ability score is now 4. A Mindstrike now also confers a bonus equal to the spell expended to Bluff checks to hiding for 1 round or as a Dodge Bonus to AC for 1 round. 5 Hide in Plain Thoughts: Identical to Hide in Plain Sight except with Bluff Checks. Very likely too powerful. If it was changed up to lose 3 caster levels I would feel more comfortable with it. Dark Presence is less powerful because of the requirement to be in melee for the caster himself. It would be far more useful for a Rogue to "Aid Another" an Enchanter. Question: Should Mindstrike be Supernatural or Extraordinary?
big_squirrel 12-01-07, 01:05 AM	This started out as just a reorginazation of my original idea, but it's developing into something else as I go, so don't blame me for it being different. If something like this already exists, I apologize for wasting the time it takes to read this. I know I need to work on the skills and ability names, but I'm really tired and don't feel like trying that hard. "Blessed Arcanist" Requirements Skills: 8 ranks in Concentration, 5 ranks in Knowledge (religion) and Spellcraft Feats: Combat Expertise, Weapon Proficiency (deity's favored weapon) and Weapon Focus (deity's favored weapon) Special: Must be able to cast third level arcane spells and worship a deity with an alignment no more than one step different from the character's alignment HD: d6 Skills (4+int): Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Spellcraft, and the class skills associated with your deity's domains (see "Domans and Class Skills" in the Cleric section of the PHB) BAB: 3/4 Saves: Good Will, Poor Fort and Ref Spellcasting: +1 arcane casting level at two, three and four Level one ability: Inspired Aim (Replaces the str/dex bonus with the key ability modifier from the previous spellcasting class [wisdom for cleric, charisma for bard and sorcerer, intelligence for wizard, etc.] to attack rolls with deity's favored weapon.) Level two ability: ** Level three ability: Domain access (Choose any single domain from your deity's domain list. You add those spells to your spellbook or spells known list and cast them as arcane spells, meaning without a divine focus, but all other components are the same. This ability does not grant access to the domain's power.)* Level four ability: ** Level five ability: Inspired Arcane Strike (As the Arcane Strike feat, except in the following ways: The spell sacrifice is a swift action, not a free action, and the spell sacrificed is treated as being one level higher for the purposes of attack bonus and damage. This ability allows you to sacrifice a zero level spell for +1 to attack and +1d4 to damage. This ability does not stack with Arcane Strike.) ** *I would have said it granted the domain's power as well, but a lot of the domains' granted powers don't really work for arcane casters, so instead I'm thinking just go with extra spells known and grant a caster level. **If this is too much, I'm thinking it could be changed to "add your class level as extra damage," but that feels a bit weak for a last ability. That covers three caster levels, adds damage (not much without sacrifice, though), and could increase spell versatility. The only problem I'm seeing is that with this, a sorcerer or warmage or whatever might be able to get access to healing spells, but since they would have to sacrifice a spell slot/prepared spell to be able to make with the healing, I don't think it would be a real problem. For the class skills section, is there a list of skills associated with deities? I looked through the domains and there aren't many that would add any class skills, so I'm thinking maybe some should be added by deity, like how dragon shaman in PHBII gets class skills based on totem dragon. If there's already a list, I'd prefer to use that than make a new one, but that's mostly just because I'm lazy.
Mandarbgrim 12-01-07, 11:18 AM	Interesting. An arcanist calls upon his god in order to channel his spells toward martial pursuits. Inspired Aim should probably be changed to your key ability score replacing the normal <STR or DEX> ability score. Otherwise they are frequently getting their two highest ability scores to attack. If there was a feat, or even three, similiar to that it would be considered unacceptable. Or you limit it to rounds per day or similiar. Domain Access: Arcanists casting divine spells doesn't concern me, but for spontanious casters with a very limited list adding all those spells known can be a huge boost. But I think it should be okay. Inspired Strike: The feat is already balanced slightly on the low side. Having it be 1 level higher doesn't seem problematic considering the level in which you will be getting it.
big_squirrel 12-01-07, 01:43 PM	I changed the wording for Inspired Aim as you suggested (it's what I had in mind but forgot to specify), and I tried to think of a way to word the domain access so it wouldn't be quite so... extensive, but the only thing I could think of is maybe limiting the number of uses for domain spells per day, like maybe only being able to use three spells granted from the domain per day plus one use per class level, but I'm not sure how that would go, or even how potentially unbalanced it might be to begin with. Looking at the Temporal Blade, I think the Temporal Acceleration ability could be changed to Dex +4, Movement +20 ft, and instead of the blur-like effect, make it so the Temporal Blade can take an extra partial action each round the ability is in effect. I don't think that ability should stack with Haste if you change it that way, so instead maybe... a bonus to AC and saves against immediate effects equal to the spell's level? With Mindstalker, I think the Mindstrike abilities would be supernatural because they affect something that couldn't be physically affected without sticking a knife in the enemy's head. I'm also thinking, and I'm not sure why, that the mindstrikes could be, like... I guess it would be called tiered or scaled for the ability damage while giving the same attack/regular damage as you have. Lesser Mindstrike could be first and second level spells grant 1 ability point damage, third and fourth could be 2 points, then Greater could allow fifth and sixth spells for 3 points, and seventh, eighth and ninth for 4 points. It would make it a little less powerful, maybe even underpowered, but it could be rescaled to make it more fair, like the highest ability damage being 5 or 6 instead of 4.
Mandarbgrim 12-01-07, 02:14 PM	I thought about the partial action idea, but I am not sure what that would accomplish short of giving an extra standard action per round. If they can't cast spells that wouldn't be a big deal, but if they can't cast spells with it that wouldn't be that useful either. I like the miss chance idea and was originally just thinking of adding the Blur spell. Then taking away the restrictions & Fatigue. The Mindstrike seems kinda clunky right now, but I am not sure of how to have it tier appropriately without a straight spell level=ability score damage. If you combine that with sniping techniques you can take out a lot of creatures simply by targetting their lowest ability score in two rounds. As an added benefit you also did so without killing them. I thought of some more abilities for the Mindstalker. It seems like it could warrant 10 levels.
dman11235 12-01-07, 04:10 PM	Could you format these properly and put them in their own thread? Makes it easier to PEACH. Format: use {code}table{/code} replace {} with []. Use a different size font for the title and another size for the ability title. EXAMPLE: here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=906064). You can ignore sblocks if you want. Actually, do this. I don't want to have to open a score of sblocks just to see the class in its entirety. And I'm sure no one else wants to either.
big_squirrel 12-01-07, 04:32 PM	table Level BAB F/W Ref Special Spell Progression 1 0 0 2 Blessed Aim - 2 1 0 3 +1 existing arcane class 3 2 1 3 Domain spells +1 existing arcane class 4 3 1 4 +1 existing arcane class 5 3 1 4 Blessed Arcane Strike - just seeing if I can get the table thing made up properly before making a new thread, and now that I can, I'm going to repost as its own thing.
dman11235 12-01-07, 05:34 PM	Thanks.