Charisma based class that doesn't fight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charisma based class that doesn't fight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xart
11-03-07, 12:56 PM Any good charisma based classes out there that doesn't get involved in fights and is balanced?
Mark_Aged
11-03-07, 12:59 PM What are you looking for? A spell user? Or something that doesn't fight at all? If so, what do you want them to do specifically?
Xart
11-03-07, 01:01 PM I wouldn't mind casting spells that could help me trick people, but I really don't want to fight at all.
Mark_Aged
11-03-07, 01:06 PM I don't know any off the top of my head, but you could look around The PrC Peach Orchard (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=901259), if you haven't all ready, and don't mind homebrew things.
Xart
11-03-07, 01:09 PM Thanks, I'll take a look through some of them.
Krusk
11-03-07, 01:40 PM sorcerer or bard can both do a pretty good job at what your looking to do.
Xart
11-03-07, 01:46 PM Yes, neither of those give enough skill points =(
vorpo
11-03-07, 01:50 PM Yes, neither of those give enough skill points =(

What? Bard? And I thought bards have the 2nd highest number of skill points right under rogues....
Xart
11-03-07, 01:51 PM What? Bard? And I thought bards have the 2nd highest number of skill points right under rogues....

Oh, yes I thought they were 4 + int but they're 6 my bad.
AstralFireIX
11-03-07, 03:53 PM I believe that bards had 4+Int in 3.0.
navar100
11-03-07, 06:25 PM Favored Soul

It does get Weapon Specialization at 12th level, but it's not a warrior unless you choose the spells to make you one.
Mordin
11-03-07, 06:53 PM My Master Entertainer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=920855) might be worth looking at.
Xart
11-03-07, 08:26 PM My Master Entertainer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=920855) might be worth looking at.

Not bad, I'll look at what more people suggest, then pick Thanks!
bkdubs123
11-04-07, 03:07 AM Jradd777's Apologetic (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=932807)is worth a mention as well as the Marshall from the Miniatures Handbook, and the Dragon Shaman from Player's Handbook II.
Mr_Teapot
11-04-07, 09:58 AM What you probably want is a bard (or maybe sorceror, Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Favored Soul or Cleric) with the Vow of Noviolence and/or Vow of Peace from the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Xart
11-04-07, 04:01 PM Let me be a little more specific on what I am right now,

25 Charisma female human. 13 str, 14 dex, 13 con, 13 int, 13 wis

I have the potential to be level 5.. so feats are welcome as well. Thank you
JackSnape
11-04-07, 04:12 PM For 1 feat I'd suggest force of personality from complete adventurer which allows you to use cha bonus instead of wis for mind-affecting will saves (most will saves)

For a race I'd say go bard, focus on not being fight based, and try to qualify for virtuioso (CA again) or I think it's called great orator in Complete Divine.
Jaxgaret
11-04-07, 04:18 PM Definitely Bard. And you're going to want Melodic Casting, from Complete Mage, so that you can keep up your Bardic Music while still casting. Subsonics is good, too, it makes your Bardic Music inaudible.

One of the best Bard builds is Bard 6 / Lyric Thaumaturge 4 / Sublime Chord 10.

The LT can be found in Complete Mage, and the SC in Complete Arcane.
Fireclave
11-04-07, 04:19 PM I'll echo sorcerer or bard as well. It seems that you want lots of skill points, wouldn't mind having having spells, want to avoid combat, and want to make use of your sky-high charisma, but that's still very vague. What exactly do you envision this character doing, and how do you want her to contribute to the party? What do you want accomplish with those skill points and your charisma?

And when you say "but I really don't want to fight at all," to what exactly do you mean by this and to what extent? Do you mean that you simply don't want to go into melee and would prefer ranged combat? Do you mean that you don't want to cause any direct damage? Do you want to avoid using indirect effects like save-or-suck spells and combat maneuvers like tripping and grappling? Do you want to completely avoid anything resembling combat altogether? A combination of those things? And most importantly, what will your character do, and not do, when she does eventually get tossed into combat?

Johny 5 needs input.
Xart
11-04-07, 04:41 PM I'll echo sorcerer or bard as well. It seems that you want lots of skill points, wouldn't mind having having spells, want to avoid combat, and want to make use of your sky-high charisma, but that's still very vague. What exactly do you envision this character doing, and how do you want her to contribute to the party? What do you want accomplish with those skill points and your charisma?

And when you say "but I really don't want to fight at all," to what exactly do you mean by this and to what extent? Do you mean that you simply don't want to go into melee and would prefer ranged combat? Do you mean that you don't want to cause any direct damage? Do you want to avoid using indirect effects like save-or-suck spells and combat maneuvers like tripping and grappling? Do you want to completely avoid anything resembling combat altogether? A combination of those things? And most importantly, what will your character do, and not do, when she does eventually get tossed into combat?

Johny 5 needs input.

I wouldn't mind using Divine or Arcane magic. I want to mostly avoid combat, but magic could benefit me greatly though.

I want my character to be more of an information gather and such, I really get tired of combat and would like to do things differently.

Edit:I really wouldn't mind being a feat ***** as well.
Fireclave
11-04-07, 06:13 PM I wouldn't mind using Divine or Arcane magic. I want to mostly avoid combat, but magic could benefit me greatly though.

I want my character to be more of an information gather and such, I really get tired of combat and would like to do things differently.
Then I'll heavily suggest Bard since you want to be an info-gather, with Sorcerer being a close second. Bards make the best spies out of the core classes. Sink your skill points in Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, Gather Information, and Disguise. Take the Urban Tracking (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#urbanTrackin g) feat. Learn spells that make you better at spying, gathering intel, and avoiding combat or ending very quickly, and getting away. The PH is full of useful spells for this purpose (with Alterself, Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Glibness, Dominate Person, Confusion, Expeditious Retreat, Dominate Person, Gaseous Form and Glitterdust probably being high on your list of considerations), but if you have access to the Spell Compendium, also take a look at Know Vulnerabilities, Know Opponent, Listening Coin, Lay of the Land, Speech Link, Improvisation, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Voice of the Dragon, Dragonsight, and Ethereal Mount.

Regardless of which class you chose, don't completely ignore combat. When you're an adventurer, sh*t happens. If you go bard, or some other class with at least 3/4 Bab, at the very least carry a reliable ranged weapon and a back up melee weapon. If you play a primary spellcaster, focus on buffs, debuffs, field control and save-or-die spells for combat, but keep a few key offensive spells in your repertoire as well. A bard can use bardic music to grant her party insane bonuses to hit and damage (read: + 10 or more) with the right feats, spells, and items.
bkdubs123
11-04-07, 07:06 PM Also make sure to put ranks in Escape Artist. You don't want to get killed by a grappler.

Take care to remember that while the other party members are fighting you can be doing something else useful. Get away from the battle if you can and sneak around gather intel and/or picking up useful items. Disguises are certainly your friend, magical and mundane, as is the spell Shock and Awe. Wonderful for a magic using scout. If you get caught and you win initiative cast it and get the hell out of there.
The_Shaman
11-04-07, 07:11 PM I wouldn't mind using Divine or Arcane magic. I want to mostly avoid combat, but magic could benefit me greatly though.

I want my character to be more of an information gather and such, I really get tired of combat and would like to do things differently.

Edit:I really wouldn't mind being a feat ***** as well.

Another vote for bards. Not only are they darn good at most everything outside of combat, but thanks to diplomancy, fascinate and suggestion they are also darn good at making sure it doesn't happen even when the other side wants it to. Rogues (also psy-rogues (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)), beguilers, telepaths and factota (ok, those tend to rely more on intelligence), among others, are also ok choices for the role, but imo bards are the best.

If you really have to get extra feats, the UA rogue variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) that sacrifices SA progression for feats can work for a level or two, but I think it's not a very good trade.
bkdubs123
11-04-07, 07:21 PM For feats, better than that Rogue variant is the Super Expert. Take Expert, give it proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, then give it bonus feats at the same rate as a fighter except that they can be anything (not just a Fighter Bonus Feat). The possibilities are endless!
The_Shaman
11-04-07, 07:25 PM I thought the rogue variant just got feats at the rate of the fighter - it's not such a big difference anyway. Where is this super expert from, btw?
bkdubs123
11-04-07, 08:41 PM Nothing official its just something I saw on the forums a while back and decided to take up as one of my official houserule classes. You might also want to give it some sort of list of "special abilities" it can draw upon giving one special ability at 1st level and then proceeding with special abilities at 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th.

Special Abilities can include things like Trapfinding, Wild Empathy, and Bardic Knowledge (which would have no prerequisites) to more powerful ones that would require prerequisites like Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion/Uncanny Dodge, Hide in Plain Sight, Wild Shape (medium), among others.

Oh, and the Super Expert gets d8 for HD rather than d6.
bhu
11-04-07, 10:07 PM Well if you dont mind homebrew classes you can try the Cat Burglar in my sig

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xart 11-03-07, 12:56 PM	Any good charisma based classes out there that doesn't get involved in fights and is balanced?
Mark_Aged 11-03-07, 12:59 PM	What are you looking for? A spell user? Or something that doesn't fight at all? If so, what do you want them to do specifically?
Xart 11-03-07, 01:01 PM	I wouldn't mind casting spells that could help me trick people, but I really don't want to fight at all.
Mark_Aged 11-03-07, 01:06 PM	I don't know any off the top of my head, but you could look around The PrC Peach Orchard (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=901259), if you haven't all ready, and don't mind homebrew things.
Xart 11-03-07, 01:09 PM	Thanks, I'll take a look through some of them.
Krusk 11-03-07, 01:40 PM	sorcerer or bard can both do a pretty good job at what your looking to do.
Xart 11-03-07, 01:46 PM	Yes, neither of those give enough skill points =(
vorpo 11-03-07, 01:50 PM	Yes, neither of those give enough skill points =( What? Bard? And I thought bards have the 2nd highest number of skill points right under rogues....
Xart 11-03-07, 01:51 PM	What? Bard? And I thought bards have the 2nd highest number of skill points right under rogues.... Oh, yes I thought they were 4 + int but they're 6 my bad.
AstralFireIX 11-03-07, 03:53 PM	I believe that bards had 4+Int in 3.0.
navar100 11-03-07, 06:25 PM	Favored Soul It does get Weapon Specialization at 12th level, but it's not a warrior unless you choose the spells to make you one.
Mordin 11-03-07, 06:53 PM	My Master Entertainer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=920855) might be worth looking at.
Xart 11-03-07, 08:26 PM	My Master Entertainer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=920855) might be worth looking at. Not bad, I'll look at what more people suggest, then pick Thanks!
bkdubs123 11-04-07, 03:07 AM	Jradd777's Apologetic (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=932807)is worth a mention as well as the Marshall from the Miniatures Handbook, and the Dragon Shaman from Player's Handbook II.
Mr_Teapot 11-04-07, 09:58 AM	What you probably want is a bard (or maybe sorceror, Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Favored Soul or Cleric) with the Vow of Noviolence and/or Vow of Peace from the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Xart 11-04-07, 04:01 PM	Let me be a little more specific on what I am right now, 25 Charisma female human. 13 str, 14 dex, 13 con, 13 int, 13 wis I have the potential to be level 5.. so feats are welcome as well. Thank you
JackSnape 11-04-07, 04:12 PM	For 1 feat I'd suggest force of personality from complete adventurer which allows you to use cha bonus instead of wis for mind-affecting will saves (most will saves) For a race I'd say go bard, focus on not being fight based, and try to qualify for virtuioso (CA again) or I think it's called great orator in Complete Divine.
Jaxgaret 11-04-07, 04:18 PM	Definitely Bard. And you're going to want Melodic Casting, from Complete Mage, so that you can keep up your Bardic Music while still casting. Subsonics is good, too, it makes your Bardic Music inaudible. One of the best Bard builds is Bard 6 / Lyric Thaumaturge 4 / Sublime Chord 10. The LT can be found in Complete Mage, and the SC in Complete Arcane.
Fireclave 11-04-07, 04:19 PM	I'll echo sorcerer or bard as well. It seems that you want lots of skill points, wouldn't mind having having spells, want to avoid combat, and want to make use of your sky-high charisma, but that's still very vague. What exactly do you envision this character doing, and how do you want her to contribute to the party? What do you want accomplish with those skill points and your charisma? And when you say "but I really don't want to fight at all," to what exactly do you mean by this and to what extent? Do you mean that you simply don't want to go into melee and would prefer ranged combat? Do you mean that you don't want to cause any direct damage? Do you want to avoid using indirect effects like save-or-suck spells and combat maneuvers like tripping and grappling? Do you want to completely avoid anything resembling combat altogether? A combination of those things? And most importantly, what will your character do, and not do, when she does eventually get tossed into combat? Johny 5 needs input.
Xart 11-04-07, 04:41 PM	I'll echo sorcerer or bard as well. It seems that you want lots of skill points, wouldn't mind having having spells, want to avoid combat, and want to make use of your sky-high charisma, but that's still very vague. What exactly do you envision this character doing, and how do you want her to contribute to the party? What do you want accomplish with those skill points and your charisma? And when you say "but I really don't want to fight at all," to what exactly do you mean by this and to what extent? Do you mean that you simply don't want to go into melee and would prefer ranged combat? Do you mean that you don't want to cause any direct damage? Do you want to avoid using indirect effects like save-or-suck spells and combat maneuvers like tripping and grappling? Do you want to completely avoid anything resembling combat altogether? A combination of those things? And most importantly, what will your character do, and not do, when she does eventually get tossed into combat? Johny 5 needs input. I wouldn't mind using Divine or Arcane magic. I want to mostly avoid combat, but magic could benefit me greatly though. I want my character to be more of an information gather and such, I really get tired of combat and would like to do things differently. Edit:I really wouldn't mind being a feat ***** as well.
Fireclave 11-04-07, 06:13 PM	I wouldn't mind using Divine or Arcane magic. I want to mostly avoid combat, but magic could benefit me greatly though. I want my character to be more of an information gather and such, I really get tired of combat and would like to do things differently. Then I'll heavily suggest Bard since you want to be an info-gather, with Sorcerer being a close second. Bards make the best spies out of the core classes. Sink your skill points in Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, Gather Information, and Disguise. Take the Urban Tracking (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#urbanTrackin g) feat. Learn spells that make you better at spying, gathering intel, and avoiding combat or ending very quickly, and getting away. The PH is full of useful spells for this purpose (with Alterself, Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Glibness, Dominate Person, Confusion, Expeditious Retreat, Dominate Person, Gaseous Form and Glitterdust probably being high on your list of considerations), but if you have access to the Spell Compendium, also take a look at Know Vulnerabilities, Know Opponent, Listening Coin, Lay of the Land, Speech Link, Improvisation, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Voice of the Dragon, Dragonsight, and Ethereal Mount. Regardless of which class you chose, don't completely ignore combat. When you're an adventurer, sh*t happens. If you go bard, or some other class with at least 3/4 Bab, at the very least carry a reliable ranged weapon and a back up melee weapon. If you play a primary spellcaster, focus on buffs, debuffs, field control and save-or-die spells for combat, but keep a few key offensive spells in your repertoire as well. A bard can use bardic music to grant her party insane bonuses to hit and damage (read: + 10 or more) with the right feats, spells, and items.
bkdubs123 11-04-07, 07:06 PM	Also make sure to put ranks in Escape Artist. You don't want to get killed by a grappler. Take care to remember that while the other party members are fighting you can be doing something else useful. Get away from the battle if you can and sneak around gather intel and/or picking up useful items. Disguises are certainly your friend, magical and mundane, as is the spell Shock and Awe. Wonderful for a magic using scout. If you get caught and you win initiative cast it and get the hell out of there.
The_Shaman 11-04-07, 07:11 PM	I wouldn't mind using Divine or Arcane magic. I want to mostly avoid combat, but magic could benefit me greatly though. I want my character to be more of an information gather and such, I really get tired of combat and would like to do things differently. Edit:I really wouldn't mind being a feat ***** as well. Another vote for bards. Not only are they darn good at most everything outside of combat, but thanks to diplomancy, fascinate and suggestion they are also darn good at making sure it doesn't happen even when the other side wants it to. Rogues (also psy-rogues (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)), beguilers, telepaths and factota (ok, those tend to rely more on intelligence), among others, are also ok choices for the role, but imo bards are the best. If you really have to get extra feats, the UA rogue variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) that sacrifices SA progression for feats can work for a level or two, but I think it's not a very good trade.
bkdubs123 11-04-07, 07:21 PM	For feats, better than that Rogue variant is the Super Expert. Take Expert, give it proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, then give it bonus feats at the same rate as a fighter except that they can be anything (not just a Fighter Bonus Feat). The possibilities are endless!
The_Shaman 11-04-07, 07:25 PM	I thought the rogue variant just got feats at the rate of the fighter - it's not such a big difference anyway. Where is this super expert from, btw?
bkdubs123 11-04-07, 08:41 PM	Nothing official its just something I saw on the forums a while back and decided to take up as one of my official houserule classes. You might also want to give it some sort of list of "special abilities" it can draw upon giving one special ability at 1st level and then proceeding with special abilities at 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th. Special Abilities can include things like Trapfinding, Wild Empathy, and Bardic Knowledge (which would have no prerequisites) to more powerful ones that would require prerequisites like Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion/Uncanny Dodge, Hide in Plain Sight, Wild Shape (medium), among others. Oh, and the Super Expert gets d8 for HD rather than d6.
bhu 11-04-07, 10:07 PM	Well if you dont mind homebrew classes you can try the Cat Burglar in my sig