Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stardust 05-10-07, 08:41 PM	Apologies if this has been discussed before, search tool and all. Looking at the Church Inquisitor in Complete Divine, is it just me or can the Prestige Class be taken very easily by a 3rd level cleric? - Will Save +3 (good save for clerics) - Highest skill requirement is 4 ranks (first level, sorted) - Need to be able to cast Zone of Truth (2nd level spell) I was under the impression that prestige classes weren't supposed to be taken before 6th level at the earliest, is there a reason why this is different? I've checked the errata for the book and nothing is mentioned. Not that I think this is a horrific problem, just curious.
Tuhljin 05-10-07, 10:57 PM	Yes, it looks like a Cleric could get into this prestige class at 4th level. I didn't see anything changing that fact in the errata, either.
StevenO 05-10-07, 11:30 PM	Is Knowledge (arcana) a class skill for clerics? If its not that could put off entry a couple more levels although I know the Knowlege Domain solves that problem as well. Meeting the mechanical parts of the prereq are easy enough but a DM should easily be able to veto meeting the other requirement. Granted that all PrCs are by DM allowance this is one that specifically requires it and the character must also have completed a specific adventure of sorts before hand to qualify.
EvilDeathBee 05-10-07, 11:35 PM	Sure, you can get it, but why would you want to? This is very much an npc class. Sure, people can't lie around you, but unless you're playing an extremely RP heavy game it's useless.
allenchan 05-10-07, 11:35 PM	I was under the impression that prestige classes weren't supposed to be taken before 6th level at the earliest, is there a reason why this is different? I've checked the errata for the book and nothing is mentioned. Its just common, its not a law. There's actually a few that allow for earlier entry. Survivor, Forsaker, Master Specialist, I'm sure there's others.... its not a big deal, imo. Nice, but not "zomgz".
navar100 05-11-07, 02:19 AM	Sure, you can get it, but why would you want to? This is very much an npc class. Sure, people can't lie around you, but unless you're playing an extremely RP heavy game it's useless. Church Inquisitor is awesome. +4 to dispel checks is huge! Dispelling Illusions is good. Immune to compulsion is huge! Detect Evil is nice. Dispelling shapechanging is nice, such as druids in wildshape or polymorphed wizards. It's only not so good if you are in a very heavy undead campaign since you don't increase Turn Undead. However, cleric spells are capable of dealing with undead well enough and you can spend those turn attempts on Divine Feats so you are not too bad off.
claypigeons 05-11-07, 02:56 AM	Church Inquisitor is actually very nice. Basically, any class that gives full spell advancement, AND class features (a few good ones, actually) is better than the base cleric. Seriously, you get turning/rebuking and spontaneous casting at level 1. That's it. Forever. You just get better at it. Edit: Just because someone will follow me and state it... Yeah, clerics get domains. I guess it's a class feature...whatever.
Stardust 05-11-07, 08:30 AM	Sure, you can get it, but why would you want to? This is very much an npc class. Sure, people can't lie around you, but unless you're playing an extremely RP heavy game it's useless. As others have said, it's actually got quite a lot of cool features, as well as full spellcasting progression. Also, the entire concept is exactly what some of my players want to do in an upcoming campaign. They thought it'd be great to play a bunch of holy crusaders vanquishing evil and generally being zealous do-gooders up and down the place. One wants to play a Paladin/Shining Blade of Heironeous, the other wants to play a Cleric/Church inquisitor. We're probably going to see if anybody wants to play a Wizard/Divine Oracle and then maybe an honour-bound ninja to round out the group. The basic premise will be something like this after the group captures an evil doer. Paladin: Repent! Inquisitor: *smack* Paladin: Repent! Inquisitor: *smack* Paladin: Repent! Inquisitor: *smack* And so on and so forth. As soon as I heard their ideas I decided I had to DM it after our current campaign winds up :)
Stardust 05-11-07, 08:36 AM	Is Knowledge (arcana) a class skill for clerics? If its not that could put off entry a couple more levels although I know the Knowlege Domain solves that problem as well. Meeting the mechanical parts of the prereq are easy enough but a DM should easily be able to veto meeting the other requirement. Granted that all PrCs are by DM allowance this is one that specifically requires it and the character must also have completed a specific adventure of sorts before hand to qualify. Yes, knowlege (arcana) is a class skill for clerics. No, I don't know why exactly. As for the 'story' requirement, yes I imagine the DM *could* veto that if he so desired. Two things with regards to that are that I will be the DM in question for the character and if you see my above post, I think their concept is hilarious and could make for a really good old-fashioned good vs. evil campaign. I'll be starting them off at level 3, so it's something that can be written into the backstory with no problems. The other is that, well, unless the player is trying to take the PrC solely for a dip or some banal reason rather than for RP or general progression of a character theme, it's pretty unfair of a DM to stop him from taking it due to the 'special' requirement. Unless of course it's totally against the flavour of the campaign or something like that. Thanks for the replies anyway, all. And i didn't know about the other low-level PrCs, thanks for pointing them out. Like I said, I know it's not a big deal, but it was just that it seemed odd and I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything.
StevenO 05-11-07, 02:01 PM	For a party of zealots it works well although I'd still want Cleric 4 (+1 BAB, Fort, and Will). As for the wizard perhaps it may want to look into Sacred Exorcist (yes, arcane casters qualify) for more icky goodness. If you have the Complete Adventurer the two Shadowbane classes may also interst your party. One thing that the Church Inquisitor really screams to me is the character having superiors they MUST be obedient to. When playing such a lawful character who must have church saction you players shouldn't really complain about getting railroaded into adventures when they get handed them by their superiors.
Stardust 05-11-07, 02:18 PM	For a party of zealots it works well although I'd still want Cleric 4 (+1 BAB, Fort, and Will). As for the wizard perhaps it may want to look into Sacred Exorcist (yes, arcane casters qualify) for more icky goodness. If you have the Complete Adventurer the two Shadowbane classes may also interst your party. Good point about the 4th level of cleric, I'll point that out to the player. I do have Complete Adventurer, so I'll check out those PrCs. Others that I had in mind were the Justiciar for the skill-oriented role and also pointing out the option of Pious Templar for the Paladin (which would mesh really well with Church Inquisitor) or even thinking about making a Crusader. One thing that the Church Inquisitor really screams to me is the character having superiors they MUST be obedient to. When playing such a lawful character who must have church saction you players shouldn't really complain about getting railroaded into adventures when they get handed them by their superiors. I don't think that would be too much of a problem, to be honest. I was saying that it'd be really easy to DM for them because of the 'evil arises, go smite!' nature of the party and they seemed pretty up for it. In our current campaign, there's a similar threat facing the land (worshippers of Hextor up to no good), but the paladin-to-be player is currently playing a yuan ti-blooded sorcerer who was originally out purely for his own gain, but has now found reason to ally with the side of good, as well as a cleric of Heironeous (same player who wants to go cleric/inquisitor) who is thoroughly disillusioned with the overzealous lawful nature of his church, who wishes they would focus more on the 'good' side of it all. Rounded out by a confused fighter who tries to be lawful good, but often is overcome by emotion and a rogue who frankly hates the whole 'valour' thing due to events in her past, the two campaigns have plenty of differences. I'm guessing that after this one wraps up, an old-fashioned "good vs. evil" will be a lot of fun. That is, if their new scout/ranger 'ally' who secretly worships hextor doesn't screw up their plans beforehand...
navar100 05-12-07, 02:25 AM	Yes, knowlege (arcana) is a class skill for clerics. No, I don't know why exactly. As for the 'story' requirement, yes I imagine the DM *could* veto that if he so desired. Two things with regards to that are that I will be the DM in question for the character and if you see my above post, I think their concept is hilarious and could make for a really good old-fashioned good vs. evil campaign. I'll be starting them off at level 3, so it's something that can be written into the backstory with no problems. The other is that, well, unless the player is trying to take the PrC solely for a dip or some banal reason rather than for RP or general progression of a character theme, it's pretty unfair of a DM to stop him from taking it due to the 'special' requirement. Unless of course it's totally against the flavour of the campaign or something like that. Thanks for the replies anyway, all. And i didn't know about the other low-level PrCs, thanks for pointing them out. Like I said, I know it's not a big deal, but it was just that it seemed odd and I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. When I first joined my group, it was only 3.0 back then. I played a cleric. I only intended ever to play a cleric - no prestige class, no particular goals, just let the campaign play out. As the game commenced, my character learned his father, the baron, committed treason by making it look like the "true baron" committed treason. Choosing faith over family, I exposed the treachery, my father was arrested, and the true Baron was placed on the throne. I became a Knight. Reading Defenders of the Faith for the first time afterwards, I came upon Church Inquisitor. Reading the flavor text and the special requirement, my jaw dropped. By sheer coincidence, that was my character. The Prestige Class was a perfect fit. It was too logical for my character to go into the Prestige Class I could think of nothing else for my character. The DM gave the ok, and into it I went. As an anecdote, I never was a fan of Dispel Magic before this. It was never a spell I'd prepare. From a games mechanics standpoint I wasn't thrilled the Inquisitor's Domain power was +4 to dispel checks. I decided to make the most of it and tried to milk whatever fun I could get out of it. I started to prepare Dispel Magic on a regular basis and cast it from time to time to see what develops. The fun I had! As the dispels commenced and the bad guys' magic fell, the tactics involved taught me better strategy. It didn't always work as is the nature of the spell, but that +4 came in real handy enough to make it work a good amount of time. When I played another cleric next campaign, even without Inquisitor Domain I always prepared Dispel Magic and still had fun with it. I was always good at playing clerics, but thanks to Church Inquisitor I became even better.