classes by skills/feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

classes by skills/feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
1 ton ghost
08-22-07, 01:08 PM this isn't so much a question as an observation. w/ the advent of 4th ed. on the way and all the wild speculation, i think alot of ppl have forgotten the core concepts to 3rd ed. in character creation anyway.

simply put, your flavor/persona/etc. is fleshed out by the rampantly huge array of skill and feat combinations, not what you write down for your class. that is to say, millions of ppl want, for example, a burglar. why isn't there a class and bla bla bla. isn't a rogue that maxes out his skills in stealth, Open Lock, Disable a fairly good box man? is not a fighter w/ emphsis on horse/lance/ride a cavalryman? there are so many possible combinations it's sickening, and yet so many keep focusing on new this, new that when you had the raw materials right there to get that character concept down.

back in 2nd ed., we didn't have these choices and now everyone wants a class for every damned thing. eventually you could take a class kit and it was novel, but awkward. it's implied in the skills and feats in 3rd ed but so many ppl want to be spoon fed and now you see all manner of PrC that make no sense or very little sense. why didn't they keep it simple? cavalier, guild thief, etc., are all traditional fantasy roles, easy to flesh out and highly believeable.

but few are satisfied w/ a simple set of numbers. this points to the larger problem; killing of role-playing. when you can't work both hemispheres of your brain to coordinate the text into a dramatic improvisation, it points to a problem w/ the user, not the system. this is one of many reasons i'm upset about 4th ed. "we're stream-lining it, making it easier" etc. and making more money btw...
it was fine to begin with. any character concept was virtually feasible even w/out PrC, it's just these days, ppl are getting lazy and want the comfort and/or security of a nifty title when with the right combination of skills and feats you're already there as a core class.
not arguing dumping PrC, they're good and set goals to aim for, just stop pigeon-holing ppl as another Ftr, another Clr, etc

like i say in game, making better judgments and role-playing will get you farther/keep you alive/help party better than having awesomely high stats via min/max and no real grounding or ability to act "in game".
Samurai_Zero
08-22-07, 01:48 PM You have some good points there, and yes a lot (if not most) PrC's are for flavor and make no sense on the gaming board. However, they are there because they have a special assortment of spells or abilities that you wouldn't normally gain just following a simple class. Ill take your example of the cavallier (CW) Sure you can make a fighter focus all he wants into a lance/sword and into ride, however does the PrC not grant you better damage rates when charging? If i remember correctly at 10 you get a x5 damage with a lance and a x4 with a sword, if you critical thats another x2. I dont know about you but id love to see a ride focused fighter match that.
1 ton ghost
08-22-07, 03:30 PM well said and well done.
no, i love SOME of the PrC's, i mean at low levels things are fleshed out by your choices of skills and feats and too many dumbasses don't get that (another reason they pushed 4th). they want a whole class rather than carefully plan it out or act accordingly.
when you've leveled enough and truly want to focus, yeah, it's time for a PrC and some are particularly good/helpful. it's just every single person wants to have this super specific niche "that i know everyone will just love" that has no real bearing on rules or logic.
the tried and true PrC's (cav, assassin, archmage, tempest, etc) are all sound and can equate to a real world believability. Master of the Unseen Hand and a ton in Comp. Divine are simply retarded. even a few in Comp. Adv that require both rogue & paladin are just blatant attempts to skirt obvious rules and flavor just so 1 misdirected fool can realize his vision.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
1 ton ghost 08-22-07, 01:08 PM	this isn't so much a question as an observation. w/ the advent of 4th ed. on the way and all the wild speculation, i think alot of ppl have forgotten the core concepts to 3rd ed. in character creation anyway. simply put, your flavor/persona/etc. is fleshed out by the rampantly huge array of skill and feat combinations, not what you write down for your class. that is to say, millions of ppl want, for example, a burglar. why isn't there a class and bla bla bla. isn't a rogue that maxes out his skills in stealth, Open Lock, Disable a fairly good box man? is not a fighter w/ emphsis on horse/lance/ride a cavalryman? there are so many possible combinations it's sickening, and yet so many keep focusing on new this, new that when you had the raw materials right there to get that character concept down. back in 2nd ed., we didn't have these choices and now everyone wants a class for every damned thing. eventually you could take a class kit and it was novel, but awkward. it's implied in the skills and feats in 3rd ed but so many ppl want to be spoon fed and now you see all manner of PrC that make no sense or very little sense. why didn't they keep it simple? cavalier, guild thief, etc., are all traditional fantasy roles, easy to flesh out and highly believeable. but few are satisfied w/ a simple set of numbers. this points to the larger problem; killing of role-playing. when you can't work both hemispheres of your brain to coordinate the text into a dramatic improvisation, it points to a problem w/ the user, not the system. this is one of many reasons i'm upset about 4th ed. "we're stream-lining it, making it easier" etc. and making more money btw... it was fine to begin with. any character concept was virtually feasible even w/out PrC, it's just these days, ppl are getting lazy and want the comfort and/or security of a nifty title when with the right combination of skills and feats you're already there as a core class. not arguing dumping PrC, they're good and set goals to aim for, just stop pigeon-holing ppl as another Ftr, another Clr, etc like i say in game, making better judgments and role-playing will get you farther/keep you alive/help party better than having awesomely high stats via min/max and no real grounding or ability to act "in game".
Samurai_Zero 08-22-07, 01:48 PM	You have some good points there, and yes a lot (if not most) PrC's are for flavor and make no sense on the gaming board. However, they are there because they have a special assortment of spells or abilities that you wouldn't normally gain just following a simple class. Ill take your example of the cavallier (CW) Sure you can make a fighter focus all he wants into a lance/sword and into ride, however does the PrC not grant you better damage rates when charging? If i remember correctly at 10 you get a x5 damage with a lance and a x4 with a sword, if you critical thats another x2. I dont know about you but id love to see a ride focused fighter match that.
1 ton ghost 08-22-07, 03:30 PM	well said and well done. no, i love SOME of the PrC's, i mean at low levels things are fleshed out by your choices of skills and feats and too many dumbasses don't get that (another reason they pushed 4th). they want a whole class rather than carefully plan it out or act accordingly. when you've leveled enough and truly want to focus, yeah, it's time for a PrC and some are particularly good/helpful. it's just every single person wants to have this super specific niche "that i know everyone will just love" that has no real bearing on rules or logic. the tried and true PrC's (cav, assassin, archmage, tempest, etc) are all sound and can equate to a real world believability. Master of the Unseen Hand and a ton in Comp. Divine are simply retarded. even a few in Comp. Adv that require both rogue & paladin are just blatant attempts to skirt obvious rules and flavor just so 1 misdirected fool can realize his vision.