Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drath'ri 05-24-07, 06:41 PM	Dark Knight HD ~ d8 Skills: 4 + Int Base ~ Full Good Saves ~ Fort Skills: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty, Knowledge (History), Ride, Sense Motive, Swim Requirements: Base Attack: +6 Skills: 4 ranks Diplomacy, 9 ranks Intimidate, 4 ranks Sense Motive, 4 ranks Knowledge (Nobility), 4 ranks Concentration Feats: Power Attack, Iron Will, Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Improved Sunder, Negotiater Honor: 25+ (my campaign setting makes use of our own Honor system, 25+ is hard to attain by level 7) Special: Must have been trained by any non-disgraced Dark Knight, training takes one full year. Dark Knights are extremely selective, besides meeting the prerequisites, the character must have proven herself, either through a quest or a battle with a creature with a CR of equal to or higher then the character, without outside help. Afterwards a character must make the Oath of Lodis and must agree to follow the tenants of the Lodis Code. (The Lodis code I will post last) 1- Shrewd Negotiator, Bastard Sword Specialization 2- Unswerving Loyalty 3- Powerful Blow 4- Fearsome Reputation 5- Bastard Sword Specialization 6- Withstand 7- Powerful Blow Greater 8- Bastard Sword Specialization, Superior Negotiator 9- Superior Sunder 10- Dark Warlord Shrewd Negotiator ~ A Dark Knight adds ½ of his class level on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive checks he makes. Also, anytime a target of a Dark Knights bluff check knows the Dark Knight is lying to him, the Dark Knight takes a -10 on bluff, diplomacy, gather information and intimidate checks involving that individual until the dakr knight can restore his lost honor with the individuals. Bastard Sword Specialization ~ At 1st level a Dark Knight gains the Weapon Specialization feat for the bastard sword. At 5th level he gains Greater Weapon Focus feat for the bastard sword. At 8th Level he gains the Greater Weapon Specialization feat for the bastard sword. Unswerving Loyalty ~ A Dark Knight adds her charisma bonus on saving throws against mind affecting and compulsion effects.. He also gains Immunity to Fear. Powerful Blow ~ After a Dark Knight scores a hit with her bastard Sword, do not roll dice to determine damage. Instead, figure the normal maximum damage (not a critical hit) the Dark Knight can inflict with that weapon and do that much damage to the target. For example, a Dark Knight uses her bastard sword, has a base attack bonus of +6, and possesses a Strength of 17. A bastard sword does 1d10 damage, so its maximum damage is 10 points. Her Strength modifier is +3, so add that for a total of 11. When the Dark Knight makes a successful critical hit, only the base damage from the weapon is maximized; roll normally for the extra damage from the critical hit. A Dark Knight can use this ability for free a number of times per day equal to her Dark Knight level. Doing so is a free action. Fearsome Reputation ~ A 4th level Dark Knight can unsettle foes with her mere presence due to her impressive reputation. A Dark Knight can activate her Fearsume Reputation ability as a free action. All creatures of her choosing within 30 feet per point of Cha bonus (minimum 30 feet) are subject to the effect if they have less HD then 2 + the Dark Knights HD (For instance, a level 10 Dark Knight can invoke fear within anyone with 12 or less HD). A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + Dark Knights Class Level + Dark Knights Cha Modifier) remains immune to the Dark Knights fearsome reputation for 24 hours. On a failure creatures with 5 or less HD become panicked for 2d6 rounds and those with 6 or more HD become shaken for 2d6. Withstand ~ Any time a Dark Knight is subject to a reflex save for half damage, a Dark Knight can make a Concentration check against the reflex save DC for half damage. If the Dark Knight has the evasion or improved evasion ability, those benefits apply on this Concentration check as well. Powerful Blow Greater ~ A number of times per day equal to ½ her Dark Knight level, a dark knight, while using her powerful blow ability, can choose to knock back a target who gets his with her attack. The victim must make a Strength check (DC 10 + ½ the damage done) or be knocked back five feat for every 5 points of damage dealt. This ability can only effect targets one size category larger then the dark knight or less. Superior Negotiator ~ A Dark Knight now adds his full level to all bluff, diplomacy, Gather information, intimidate and sense motive checks. This ability replaces Shrewd Negotiator. Also, anytime a target of a Dark Knights bluff check knows the Dark Knight is lying to him, the Dark Knight takes a -10 on bluff, diplomacy, gather information and intimidate checks involving that individual until the dakr knight can restore his lost honor with the individuals. Superior Sunder ~ Grants a Dark Knight double his strength score when dealing damage when sundering. Dark Warlord ~ At 10th level a Dark Knight officially becomes a Dark Warlord. Other dark knights revere the Dark Warlord. If the Dark Warlord has a master, this master likely assigns the warlord more responsibility and authority (most Dark Warlords are given land to rule). In addition to the added responsibility, A Dark Warlord gains a few tangible benefits. She has the right to train other members of the order, and to petition for assistance from fellow warlords and knights. Also, she adds her Charisma modifier as a morale bonus on all saving throws (and concentration checks for her withstand ability), and gains an additional +4 bonus on saves against mind affecting and compulsion effects (this replaces the bonus from her Unswerving Loyalty ability). Also, once per day she can call upon all the precepts that make the Dark Knights what they are, gaining a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for 10 minutes. Using this latter ability is a free action. 9 Tenets of the Lodis Code - Obey all ranking members of the Order unless doing so would result in breaking an oath. - Smite all those that stand and work against the Order - Hold true to all agreements you make. - Protect those who are willing to protect themselves unless they stand against the Order. - Never allow your personal agendas to interfere with the order unless not acting would break an oath. - Never take a life when it can be avoided. - Show respect for your enemy and all ranking members of the Order. Courtesy to all others. - Remain loyal to Lodis and be always vigilant for those who have swayed. Never work against the Order. - Oaths before Lodis, Lodis before mission, mission before death. Restrictions: A Dark Knight must remain Lawful, and must follow the Lodis code to the letter, otherwise he cannt countinue taking levels in this class until he recieves an atonement spell. He must also keep his Honor score above 25. Balanced, Yes? No? Thanks in advance
Drath'ri 05-24-07, 10:17 PM	I'm willing to down the benefits of Dark Warlord and the sunder abilties. maybe switch them around or something. Anyone think this PrC is balanced?
NobodyRemembersThis 05-25-07, 09:57 AM	Question. Why would anyone playing a fighter not try and take this class? Anyway, Powerful Blow is too complicated. It would be simpler to allow the Dark Knight to declare the hit a critical threat regardless of the roll (and as long as it hits!) Improved Powerful Blow could be changed to automatically confirm x critical hits each day (1+Int or Cha mod maybe). Sundering Armor is a headache ye are not ready - technically ye deal damae to armor each time you successfully hit the character anyway, depending on flavor. It is a clunky mechanic. Just leave that ability entirely, IMO. Also, you have creatd the crazist powerful Diplomancer build with this. A free +10 to Bluff and Diplomacy? In just the core, that could give you a net +38 (+40 for half elf) without your charisma modifier.. Tha means that you have a better than 50% chance of stopping every single war with negotiation. And, you can stop any kind of combat at all without ever rolling a single die. That's broke, brokety broke broke broke. At least, it is broke if a PC gets a hold of it.
Drath'ri 05-25-07, 04:16 PM	Question. Why would anyone playing a fighter not try and take this class? Anyway, Powerful Blow is too complicated. It would be simpler to allow the Dark Knight to declare the hit a critical threat regardless of the roll (and as long as it hits!) Improved Powerful Blow could be changed to automatically confirm x critical hits each day (1+Int or Cha mod maybe). Sundering Armor is a headache ye are not ready - technically ye deal damae to armor each time you successfully hit the character anyway, depending on flavor. It is a clunky mechanic. Just leave that ability entirely, IMO. Also, you have creatd the crazist powerful Diplomancer build with this. A free +10 to Bluff and Diplomacy? In just the core, that could give you a net +38 (+40 for half elf) without your charisma modifier.. Tha means that you have a better than 50% chance of stopping every single war with negotiation. And, you can stop any kind of combat at all without ever rolling a single die. That's broke, brokety broke broke broke. At least, it is broke if a PC gets a hold of it. Psionic Weapons master uses the same ability "Powerful Blow" and its written the exact same way. And Shrewd Negotiater, was taken from Kensai. So unless you're saying both of those classes are broken then go to wizards. The reason a fighter wouldnt take this class... hmm.. the feats wasted on bastard sword (which isnt a very amazing weapon in my eyes anyway) and the entire fact that you absolutely have to have an amazing intelligence bonus to get into this class, or waste all of your skill points on cross class skills a fighter would barely use (depending on character of course). Also, the only weapon a Dark Knight can use is his bastard sword to use his class abilities. Would adding a weapon attuning feature work? For instance, he attunes himself to one bastard sword and one bastard sword only, and if he ever loses that weapon he either has to pay an XP cost or get it back? Though i must agree about the sundering armor thing. *changes that* I also forgot to add the alignment restrictions. and the way a character coudl screw up. We could also get rid of Bastard Sword Specilization abilities and instead make it so his Dark Knight level counts for fighter levesl when determining feats he can take? Thanks btw
Drath'ri 05-30-07, 03:56 PM	Anyone esle wanna take a swing at it?
rampant 05-31-07, 01:03 PM	Quite frankly I like it. I absolutely adore this class. Can I yoink this? I've got a campeign world I'm building and these guys would be perfect for it. As for balance I don't see any problems.
madbliza 05-31-07, 01:28 PM	Why not simply give this class the Combat Brute feat (Complete Warrior)? Some of the features in this class mirror it and not to mention the improvement to sunder would be more tempting with the Sundering Cleave option. Also, I think the Powerful Blow feature should be more like a modifired Smite because I can easily see this feature being abused. Withstand is cool but why not use Mettle? Also, why is bluff a required skill if they are diplomats? Also, if the whole point of this class is non-violence, why not give abilities that subdue rather then kill? Just a few thoughts.
Drath'ri 05-31-07, 02:58 PM	Why not simply give this class the Combat Brute feat (Complete Warrior)? Some of the features in this class mirror it and not to mention the improvement to sunder would be more tempting with the Sundering Cleave option. Also, I think the Powerful Blow feature should be more like a modifired Smite because I can easily see this feature being abused. Withstand is cool but why not use Mettle? Also, why is bluff a required skill if they are diplomats? Also, if the whole point of this class is non-violence, why not give abilities that subdue rather then kill? Just a few thoughts. Powerful blow, i liked simply for the fact that it isnt done often and I've only seen it on the weapons masters. I'm not entirely fond of "Smiting". Kind of a pet-peeve of mine. *cracks open his CW* The reason I took withstand over mettle (yes i checked them both out) is because originally I pictured the Dark Knights as being the type of character who walks confidenetly towards the enemy mage, and when the mage lauches his fireball thinking the Dark Knight couldnt evade his attack and he's surely damaged enouhg to weaken him, the smoke clears and the Dark Knight is still there, walking like before, without so much as a scratch. And I didnt nessesarily picture them to be against violence, just utterly loyal to Lodis. And being so good with thier bastard swords that their simple reputation preceedes them. Kind of think of the movie 300, Those three hundread would be Dark Knights and the rest would all be hordes of creatures attacking. Plus, if you noticed, the Code itself, is aligned neautrally, sure, you cant take a life unless it cant be avoided, but surely there's a section of Dark Knights out there who will simply burn down the village to find the spy against Lodis, instead of investigatingand finding him through diplomacy and wit. All they have to do is justify it to themselves. Because, technically, the villagers are harboring the spy, thus being enemies of Lodis, thus working agaisnt the Order. If you guys want, i could post the fluff i had for them. I cant seem to find combat brute. Got a page number? and to Rampant, sure you can steal them. i made them for a campaign setting me and my friends are working on. If you wanna help with that nd see what else we have hit me up with a PM. Oh, and thanks you two, seriously, i'm tyring to get this guys as balanced as I can. Even though i'm pretty sure they're either there or almost there.
madbliza 05-31-07, 04:12 PM	I believe it's called Combat Brute (I may be wrong it may be one of the different things you can do with the feat). It's a tactical feat in the CW that does Sundering Cleave. That much I am sure of. (Don't have my book with me.) Also, it doesn't make sense to make them have good Will saves. Is this not a fighter class? What magical aspect entitles them to this? Based on everything here though, I get a Paladin-like impression. Which is why I suggested a modified Smite. Also, being able to crack someone over the head with a bastard sword to knock them out is a handy skill. Which is why I was suggesting, being that the should avoid killing when possible, they be able to do subdual damage with their weapon.
Drath'ri 05-31-07, 04:49 PM	It wouldn't nessecarily be a magical aspect but thier overwealming need for concentration. Plus, if i drop the will save, i'd have to add something. I'm mostly against that because I feel I've covered every aspect needed for the idea of the class. And I found combat brute, but the thing you have to remember, over the course of taking the ten levels of this class, a character would be granted three feats, and if the class automatically gives you four feats, (the three bastard sword specs and combat brute) it becomes a little feat heavy and one of those "why wouldnt i take this class" class. if not simply for the feats. I think I may switch the places of superior sunder and superior negotiater... what do you think?
madbliza 05-31-07, 05:56 PM	That's why I was thinking drop will, boost reflex. It only makes sense because of the Withstand. Personally, I would just drop the superior negotiator. If you look at the DC to make a hostile character very friendly, the DC is like 40, it's DC 30 for just friendly, DC 25 for indifferent. With the synergies obtained from skills, the bonus already provided by the Shrewd Negotiator and the Prereq. for the class is Negotiator. I would say you already have the Diplomacy thing covered without the Superior Negotiator. Aside from that, yeah, if you don't really want to change anything else. You are done.
rampant 05-31-07, 06:12 PM	Its a dark knight the high will represents their focused mind and unswerving dedication to their code.
Drath'ri 05-31-07, 06:38 PM	Also, a thing i might want to add, I absolutely hate the Diplomacy skill DCs. I use Rich Burlew's rendition of it, (which can be found Here (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)) where the DC is changed by various other situations. Madbliza, You'd like to read Withstand more thoroughly, It replaces the Reflex save with a Concentration Check. So Reflex isnt really needed anymore. Other then that, Thank you very much you two.
madbliza 06-01-07, 02:47 PM	I re-read Withstand, okay I get it. Still, the bonus in Will saves I don't justify since a Will Save and the Concentration skill are two different things. But I also understand that this is a "house" class. Which you can do whatever you want to it. Personally, my DM would've scrapped this class if I tried to submit it. And in all honesty, I would've two. But I find my narrow mind helps trim things. Oh, I reviewed those Diplomacy checks. Still think you got it covered, but its "your" class, man. It's done when you want it to be.
Drath'ri 06-01-07, 03:41 PM	You know, you make a pretty good argument, screw the will saves, i mean i already gave them unswerving loyalty anyway, and then the bonus from DarK Warlord at ten kinda makes it all broken, when you think about it. *drops the will save to normal*