Dervish Problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dervish Problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Decado_Rill_Eldhe
04-18-07, 06:59 AM I'm a fan of the prestige class The Dervish, described in Complete Warrior.

There is a particular problem that i cannot solve:

"At the 3rd level, the Dervish gains Spring Attack feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites."

But the prerequisites pf Spring Attack are: Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +4;
To become a Dervish you must have Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +5.

So: i don't understand why write it. :confused: Moreover, the Spring attack feat is not very useful for a Dervish, because with her dance she can move and attack in a better way.
Maybe thy want to say: Whirlwind Attack? In my opinion, it is more useful for a Dervish, and the sentence would have sense.

Please help me in this problem.
Karla
04-18-07, 11:32 AM Hm. I'd always seen that and assumed it meant the Dex requirement (13). But now I think about it that same dex is also needed for Dodge and Mobility so there's no likely way a Dervish could fail to meet it.

My assumption is that the writers went through the same (il)logical process and forgot the Dervish must already have the Dex prereq.

As for its not being useful to someone with Dervish Dance, remember that at 3rd level you only have 2 dances a day and it'd be an unusually kind DM who lets you off without more encounters than that! And that's ignoring issues of terrain or confined spaces, or not wishing to fatigue yourself partway through a lengthy fight.

Or if nothing else, its usefulness in then letting you take Whirlwind attack - though working out how that works (or doesn't) with a Dervish dance will make for an interesting conversation with your DM as AFAIK it's simply not defined anywhere in the rules!
DarkRhystar
04-18-07, 12:03 PM I'm a fan of the prestige class The Dervish, described in Complete Warrior.

There is a particular problem that i cannot solve:

"At the 3rd level, the Dervish gains Spring Attack feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites."

But the prerequisites pf Spring Attack are: Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +4;
To become a Dervish you must have Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +5.

So: i don't understand why write it. :confused: Moreover, the Spring attack feat is not very useful for a Dervish, because with her dance she can move and attack in a better way.
Maybe thy want to say: Whirlwind Attack? In my opinion, it is more useful for a Dervish, and the sentence would have sense.

Please help me in this problem.

What exactly is your problem?

The Dervish gains the Spring Attack feat. The end.
Otto the Bugbear
04-18-07, 12:05 PM Most stuff that gets printed goes through a lengthy process where it gets revised several times. My guess would be that the Dervish started out not requiring one or more of the entry requirements you now see. Perhaps it didn't have Dodge and Mobility at one point, and they gave it Spring Attack. Later, perhaps, they added dodge and mobility and forgot to remove that line from Dervish when it gains spring attack.

Also, no, it shouldn't be whirlwind attack. It says spring attack, it is spring attack. Though that does help you qualify for some of the feats (bounding assault?) found in PHB II that allows you to make more than one attack during a spring attack.
dokesa
04-18-07, 12:07 PM It's possible to have a dexterity score of 13, get dodge and mobility, then have your score permanently drained below 13. If you then raise your score back up to 13, you get to use spring attack (as well as dodge and mobility).
Omadon_Alwroth
04-18-07, 04:57 PM I've always had a problem with this as well. If you can't qualify for the feat you have no business being a Dervish. However I've never been able to decide what to replave those with, if anything. Dodge doesn't bother me, but the bonus from Mobility becomes pointless at higher levels. I played a Swashbuckler-10/Dervish-10 for a game once and at that point you can tunble through just about anything.
Decado_Rill_Eldhe
04-19-07, 03:00 AM Thank you for the attention... there's wisdom in all your answers.
forsaken1111
04-21-07, 03:46 AM I've always had a problem with this as well. If you can't qualify for the feat you have no business being a Dervish. However I've never been able to decide what to replave those with, if anything. Dodge doesn't bother me, but the bonus from Mobility becomes pointless at higher levels. I played a Swashbuckler-10/Dervish-10 for a game once and at that point you can tunble through just about anything.

My epic-level monk with her 51 armor class actually narrowly avoided a attack of opportunity critical hit which would have killed her outright due to me remembering at the last second that I had mobility.

That +4 is never 'pointless'. +4 is +4 and it all adds up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Decado_Rill_Eldhe 04-18-07, 06:59 AM	I'm a fan of the prestige class The Dervish, described in Complete Warrior. There is a particular problem that i cannot solve: "At the 3rd level, the Dervish gains Spring Attack feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites." But the prerequisites pf Spring Attack are: Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +4; To become a Dervish you must have Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +5. So: i don't understand why write it. :confused: Moreover, the Spring attack feat is not very useful for a Dervish, because with her dance she can move and attack in a better way. Maybe thy want to say: Whirlwind Attack? In my opinion, it is more useful for a Dervish, and the sentence would have sense. Please help me in this problem.
Karla 04-18-07, 11:32 AM	Hm. I'd always seen that and assumed it meant the Dex requirement (13). But now I think about it that same dex is also needed for Dodge and Mobility so there's no likely way a Dervish could fail to meet it. My assumption is that the writers went through the same (il)logical process and forgot the Dervish must already have the Dex prereq. As for its not being useful to someone with Dervish Dance, remember that at 3rd level you only have 2 dances a day and it'd be an unusually kind DM who lets you off without more encounters than that! And that's ignoring issues of terrain or confined spaces, or not wishing to fatigue yourself partway through a lengthy fight. Or if nothing else, its usefulness in then letting you take Whirlwind attack - though working out how that works (or doesn't) with a Dervish dance will make for an interesting conversation with your DM as AFAIK it's simply not defined anywhere in the rules!
DarkRhystar 04-18-07, 12:03 PM	I'm a fan of the prestige class The Dervish, described in Complete Warrior. There is a particular problem that i cannot solve: "At the 3rd level, the Dervish gains Spring Attack feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites." But the prerequisites pf Spring Attack are: Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +4; To become a Dervish you must have Dodge, Mobility and Base Attack Bonus +5. So: i don't understand why write it. :confused: Moreover, the Spring attack feat is not very useful for a Dervish, because with her dance she can move and attack in a better way. Maybe thy want to say: Whirlwind Attack? In my opinion, it is more useful for a Dervish, and the sentence would have sense. Please help me in this problem. What exactly is your problem? The Dervish gains the Spring Attack feat. The end.
Otto the Bugbear 04-18-07, 12:05 PM	Most stuff that gets printed goes through a lengthy process where it gets revised several times. My guess would be that the Dervish started out not requiring one or more of the entry requirements you now see. Perhaps it didn't have Dodge and Mobility at one point, and they gave it Spring Attack. Later, perhaps, they added dodge and mobility and forgot to remove that line from Dervish when it gains spring attack. Also, no, it shouldn't be whirlwind attack. It says spring attack, it is spring attack. Though that does help you qualify for some of the feats (bounding assault?) found in PHB II that allows you to make more than one attack during a spring attack.
dokesa 04-18-07, 12:07 PM	It's possible to have a dexterity score of 13, get dodge and mobility, then have your score permanently drained below 13. If you then raise your score back up to 13, you get to use spring attack (as well as dodge and mobility).
Omadon_Alwroth 04-18-07, 04:57 PM	I've always had a problem with this as well. If you can't qualify for the feat you have no business being a Dervish. However I've never been able to decide what to replave those with, if anything. Dodge doesn't bother me, but the bonus from Mobility becomes pointless at higher levels. I played a Swashbuckler-10/Dervish-10 for a game once and at that point you can tunble through just about anything.
Decado_Rill_Eldhe 04-19-07, 03:00 AM	Thank you for the attention... there's wisdom in all your answers.
forsaken1111 04-21-07, 03:46 AM	I've always had a problem with this as well. If you can't qualify for the feat you have no business being a Dervish. However I've never been able to decide what to replave those with, if anything. Dodge doesn't bother me, but the bonus from Mobility becomes pointless at higher levels. I played a Swashbuckler-10/Dervish-10 for a game once and at that point you can tunble through just about anything. My epic-level monk with her 51 armor class actually narrowly avoided a attack of opportunity critical hit which would have killed her outright due to me remembering at the last second that I had mobility. That +4 is never 'pointless'. +4 is +4 and it all adds up.