Divine PrCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Divine PrCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RandomAction
01-27-08, 01:42 AM Hello.

I am looking for a list of divine PrC's that grant 3/4 or better spellcasting progression for a cleric.
dman11235
01-27-08, 02:36 AM ...what. Please be more specific. Go to crystal keep, they have a list of most PrCs ever, and I believe the 3/4 or better divine progression has about 50845749085723985 entries. Note: this is a slight exaggeration.
RandomAction
01-27-08, 07:08 PM OK, let me try a little better.

I am working on a divine gish. I am using cleric as the base caster class, as to take advantage of DMM and other feats that use turn attempts. So I am needing PrCs that advance both spellcasting (at least 3/4) ability and turn attempts, but not at a great expense of BAB.
dman11235
01-27-08, 07:26 PM You are a cleric. You don't care about your BAB. Whatever it is, it's full thanks to Divine Power. Also, your a cleric, so gish isn't the appropriate word, but the hard work's been done for you, due to spell list. The best advise I can give you right now (unless you want to get even more specific) is take a full casting PrC and not care about BAB. Especially since you said "DMM". DMM persist is pretty much the only thing you need to pull of an amazing divine melee powerhouse. Oh, and don't take War Priest. Straight cleric is better at melee than it is, and is better at everything else it does.

Here are some nice ones to concider: Radiant Servant of Pelor, Contemplative, Divine Oracle. Make sure to buy nightsticks!
Aleolus
01-27-08, 07:43 PM What's your alignment? Because I might also suggest the Church Inquisitor, but you have to be either LG or LN to qualify. Or there's the Sacred Exorcist, if you're going up against a lot of undead and are a good alignment. Full casting progression, 3/4 BAB, good Will saves, and lots of bonuses when fighting undead.
If you're playing an Elf or a half-elf, I might also suggest the Seeker of the Misty Isle, which gives access to two new domains!
If you've a neutral alignment, then the Void Disciple might work, being a 4/5 casting progression. Only a 1/2 BAB, though.
dman11235
01-27-08, 08:22 PM Remember Aleolus: cleric. All clerics of level 9 or haigher can have full BAB if they want.
Aleolus
01-27-08, 09:27 PM Remember Aleolus: cleric. All clerics of level 9 or haigher can have full BAB if they want.

Which spell is it that does this? Only one I can see (granted I'm only looking in Core atm) that might qualify is Righteous Might.
JulesCARV
01-27-08, 09:46 PM Divine power. It's a fine spell, but casting it at the beginning of combat requires a valuable standard action, unless you quicken it, which, unless you want to blow very high level slots, requires a 75,500 intermediate rod of quicken.

Or, of course, you could use divine metamagic (persistent spell), but, for one thing, the divine metamagic feat tree (extend spell, persistent spell, divine metamagic (persistent spell), and possibly extra turning and craft rod) takes up a lot of feats that a divine gish might rather spend on things like power attack, point blank shot/precise shot, etc. Sure, you can fight okay without all those feats with divine favor, divine power, righteous might, etc, but not having a few basic combattive feats doesn't feel like being a combatant.

For another thing, using persistent divine power is widely regarded as cheesy -- getting too much while giving up far too little. With a monk's belt and persistent divine power, a cloistered cleric can fight like a half-decent front-liner, which seems wrong. Not to mention all the skill points, lore, etc.

In short, I think there genuinely is an unfilled need for a decent warrior cleric prestige class. As it currently is, your options are either being a straight cleric, and being okay but sorta mediocre in combat, using divine metamagic and being cheesy, or using some multiclass like fighter 4/cleric 16 in which you give up too much and gain too little. What's needed is a viable intermediate route -- give up a bit of spellcasting like an eldritch knight, but not too much like a warpriest, gain some combat ability, where you're a bit better at fighting than a cleric, and a bit worse at spellcasting, and not cheesily getting something for a nominal sacrifice.

In short, what's needed is a way for a DM to say, "no, you can't use divine metamagic (persistent spell) and nightsticks, but if you want to improve your combat abilities, let's take a look at this prestige class, which would work well with your character concept of a warrior-cleric."

Deity-specific prestige classes of this sort may exist, but I think there's a sore lack of a generic clerical combat-booster prestige class with almost-but-not-quite-full spellcasting advancement. If only the war priest had had, say, 8/10 spellcasting advancement, and maybe cut out a few of the other random abilities.
StevenO
01-27-08, 11:37 PM Basically all of the "divine" PrCs out there grant 3/4 BAB and something close to full spellcasting. Generally the best PrC I'd consider recommending with full BAB and maximum spellcasting is the Hospitaler (CDiv).

When using Divine Metamagic make sure you actually use it properly. That is to say "don't forget that DMM-Persistent Spell also requires the character have Persistent spell which usually required Extend Spell."
JaronK
01-27-08, 11:53 PM Radient Servant of Pelor.

JaronK
RandomAction
01-28-08, 12:42 AM Ok let me answer some questions.

The characters alignment is Lawful Neutral, I choose to be a warforged. (I just like playing underdog characters.)
As for DMM, persist has been ruled against. DM says too broken. I do not agree, but whatever.
My domain selection prevents me from taking radiant servant levels. I will look at the hospitaler, though.

My character idea was a healer who could heal any being set before him and a combat brute who is tough to defeat to start with, but after he buffs there is no stopping him.
Aleolus
01-28-08, 10:49 AM Ok let me answer some questions.

The characters alignment is Lawful Neutral, I choose to be a warforged. (I just like playing underdog characters.)
As for DMM, persist has been ruled against. DM says too broken. I do not agree, but whatever.
My domain selection prevents me from taking radiant servant levels. I will look at the hospitaler, though.

My character idea was a healer who could heal any being set before him and a combat brute who is tough to defeat to start with, but after he buffs there is no stopping him.

Hospitaler is more a PrC for Paladins, rather than Clerics.

Well, if you're LN, then Church Inquisitor or Void Disciple would probably be a good choice.

Church Inquisitor: Full spellcasting, 3/4 BAB, Detect Evil at will, and the Inquisition domain (+4 bonus on Dispel checks) at first level. Second level, you become immune to Charms, third level you get a Will save the instant you see any sort of disguise or illusion to disbelieve it (don't have to interact with it, just have to see it), 4th level you get a +4 bonus on Spot checks to see through disguises, 5th level you're immune to compulsions, sixth level you can force a creature back into it's natural form, 8th level you are immune to possession, 9th level you can do Discern Lies three times per day, and at tenth level you can force one creature to tell the truth by touching them three times per day.

Void Disciple: 4/5 spellcasting, gets various abilities related to out of body type stuff.
The_Shaman
01-28-08, 01:05 PM LN alignment rules out Fist of Raziel (BoED), Sacred Exorcist, and Exorcist of the Silver Flame, while being in Eberron can be a problem for the Ordained Champion (CChamp) unless you take out the deity restrictions. Hmm...

I have a weird, but imo cool idea: while it's easier to do it with 2 monk levels, you only need a couple of feats to qualify for Sacred Fist. A warforged sacred fist can be incredibly cool imo - and it has full BAB and full casting (text trumps tables, and the text says all class levels).
dman11235
01-28-08, 05:39 PM Hmm, sacred fist and two levels of Divine Oracle instead of monk will still net you evasion!

Also: DMM persist is only broken if your DM has never heard of dispel magic. And possibly if you allow the persisting of spells you couldn't normally persist (don't have the spell slots). Even without DMM, persist is an excellent way to make a powerhouse melee from your cleric. You just need to be a higher level, that's all.
The_Shaman
01-28-08, 07:45 PM I don't think DMM persist is broken in itself - strong, sure, but not broken. Add in Nightsticks, however, and it goes through the roof
JulesCARV
01-29-08, 12:26 AM Ruby Knight Vindicator would give 8/10 casting and full base attack bonus along with other things, but it would be very hard to get into as a warforged without taking experience penalties -- you'd either have to spend two feats on martial study and martial stance, in addition to your metamagic, divine metamagic, and probably a warforged body feats (unless you're going the monk's belt + default composite plating route), or you'd have to go into crusader, which would require something like, I dunno, crusader 2/cleric 3 to avoid experience penalties.

To top it all off, you have to worship Wee Jas, who may not offer the domains you want, and you may be playing in Eberron anyway and as such not have her as a normally worshippable deity. (Of course, you could worship Wee Jas in Eberron and still get spells, but everyone would think you're a loon and there's no church dedicated to her or anything.)
RandomAction
01-30-08, 12:26 AM Thanks everyone for the help. I have decided to go for the sovereign speaker PrC, in FoE. It's a nine level class, which is odd, but you gain a total of nine bonus domains, 3 extra domain spell slots, 6/9 BAB and 7/9 spellcasting.
I know that it doesn't half the BAB that I would like, but considering how many abilitites you gain from the bonus domains, it kinda makes up for it.
Now, I am going to work on my cleric 'Gish'. When I am finished, I will be posting it in the CO boards for review. And again, my thanks to all.
Now if I can only get help with my airships question.
RandomAction
02-02-08, 11:35 PM Here is a Link (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14994608#post14994608) to the thread in the CO Boards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RandomAction 01-27-08, 01:42 AM	Hello. I am looking for a list of divine PrC's that grant 3/4 or better spellcasting progression for a cleric.
dman11235 01-27-08, 02:36 AM	...what. Please be more specific. Go to crystal keep, they have a list of most PrCs ever, and I believe the 3/4 or better divine progression has about 50845749085723985 entries. Note: this is a slight exaggeration.
RandomAction 01-27-08, 07:08 PM	OK, let me try a little better. I am working on a divine gish. I am using cleric as the base caster class, as to take advantage of DMM and other feats that use turn attempts. So I am needing PrCs that advance both spellcasting (at least 3/4) ability and turn attempts, but not at a great expense of BAB.
dman11235 01-27-08, 07:26 PM	You are a cleric. You don't care about your BAB. Whatever it is, it's full thanks to Divine Power. Also, your a cleric, so gish isn't the appropriate word, but the hard work's been done for you, due to spell list. The best advise I can give you right now (unless you want to get even more specific) is take a full casting PrC and not care about BAB. Especially since you said "DMM". DMM persist is pretty much the only thing you need to pull of an amazing divine melee powerhouse. Oh, and don't take War Priest. Straight cleric is better at melee than it is, and is better at everything else it does. Here are some nice ones to concider: Radiant Servant of Pelor, Contemplative, Divine Oracle. Make sure to buy nightsticks!
Aleolus 01-27-08, 07:43 PM	What's your alignment? Because I might also suggest the Church Inquisitor, but you have to be either LG or LN to qualify. Or there's the Sacred Exorcist, if you're going up against a lot of undead and are a good alignment. Full casting progression, 3/4 BAB, good Will saves, and lots of bonuses when fighting undead. If you're playing an Elf or a half-elf, I might also suggest the Seeker of the Misty Isle, which gives access to two new domains! If you've a neutral alignment, then the Void Disciple might work, being a 4/5 casting progression. Only a 1/2 BAB, though.
dman11235 01-27-08, 08:22 PM	Remember Aleolus: cleric. All clerics of level 9 or haigher can have full BAB if they want.
Aleolus 01-27-08, 09:27 PM	Remember Aleolus: cleric. All clerics of level 9 or haigher can have full BAB if they want. Which spell is it that does this? Only one I can see (granted I'm only looking in Core atm) that might qualify is Righteous Might.
JulesCARV 01-27-08, 09:46 PM	Divine power. It's a fine spell, but casting it at the beginning of combat requires a valuable standard action, unless you quicken it, which, unless you want to blow very high level slots, requires a 75,500 intermediate rod of quicken. Or, of course, you could use divine metamagic (persistent spell), but, for one thing, the divine metamagic feat tree (extend spell, persistent spell, divine metamagic (persistent spell), and possibly extra turning and craft rod) takes up a lot of feats that a divine gish might rather spend on things like power attack, point blank shot/precise shot, etc. Sure, you can fight okay without all those feats with divine favor, divine power, righteous might, etc, but not having a few basic combattive feats doesn't feel like being a combatant. For another thing, using persistent divine power is widely regarded as cheesy -- getting too much while giving up far too little. With a monk's belt and persistent divine power, a cloistered cleric can fight like a half-decent front-liner, which seems wrong. Not to mention all the skill points, lore, etc. In short, I think there genuinely is an unfilled need for a decent warrior cleric prestige class. As it currently is, your options are either being a straight cleric, and being okay but sorta mediocre in combat, using divine metamagic and being cheesy, or using some multiclass like fighter 4/cleric 16 in which you give up too much and gain too little. What's needed is a viable intermediate route -- give up a bit of spellcasting like an eldritch knight, but not too much like a warpriest, gain some combat ability, where you're a bit better at fighting than a cleric, and a bit worse at spellcasting, and not cheesily getting something for a nominal sacrifice. In short, what's needed is a way for a DM to say, "no, you can't use divine metamagic (persistent spell) and nightsticks, but if you want to improve your combat abilities, let's take a look at this prestige class, which would work well with your character concept of a warrior-cleric." Deity-specific prestige classes of this sort may exist, but I think there's a sore lack of a generic clerical combat-booster prestige class with almost-but-not-quite-full spellcasting advancement. If only the war priest had had, say, 8/10 spellcasting advancement, and maybe cut out a few of the other random abilities.
StevenO 01-27-08, 11:37 PM	Basically all of the "divine" PrCs out there grant 3/4 BAB and something close to full spellcasting. Generally the best PrC I'd consider recommending with full BAB and maximum spellcasting is the Hospitaler (CDiv). When using Divine Metamagic make sure you actually use it properly. That is to say "don't forget that DMM-Persistent Spell also requires the character have Persistent spell which usually required Extend Spell."
JaronK 01-27-08, 11:53 PM	Radient Servant of Pelor. JaronK
RandomAction 01-28-08, 12:42 AM	Ok let me answer some questions. The characters alignment is Lawful Neutral, I choose to be a warforged. (I just like playing underdog characters.) As for DMM, persist has been ruled against. DM says too broken. I do not agree, but whatever. My domain selection prevents me from taking radiant servant levels. I will look at the hospitaler, though. My character idea was a healer who could heal any being set before him and a combat brute who is tough to defeat to start with, but after he buffs there is no stopping him.
Aleolus 01-28-08, 10:49 AM	Ok let me answer some questions. The characters alignment is Lawful Neutral, I choose to be a warforged. (I just like playing underdog characters.) As for DMM, persist has been ruled against. DM says too broken. I do not agree, but whatever. My domain selection prevents me from taking radiant servant levels. I will look at the hospitaler, though. My character idea was a healer who could heal any being set before him and a combat brute who is tough to defeat to start with, but after he buffs there is no stopping him. Hospitaler is more a PrC for Paladins, rather than Clerics. Well, if you're LN, then Church Inquisitor or Void Disciple would probably be a good choice. Church Inquisitor: Full spellcasting, 3/4 BAB, Detect Evil at will, and the Inquisition domain (+4 bonus on Dispel checks) at first level. Second level, you become immune to Charms, third level you get a Will save the instant you see any sort of disguise or illusion to disbelieve it (don't have to interact with it, just have to see it), 4th level you get a +4 bonus on Spot checks to see through disguises, 5th level you're immune to compulsions, sixth level you can force a creature back into it's natural form, 8th level you are immune to possession, 9th level you can do Discern Lies three times per day, and at tenth level you can force one creature to tell the truth by touching them three times per day. Void Disciple: 4/5 spellcasting, gets various abilities related to out of body type stuff.
The_Shaman 01-28-08, 01:05 PM	LN alignment rules out Fist of Raziel (BoED), Sacred Exorcist, and Exorcist of the Silver Flame, while being in Eberron can be a problem for the Ordained Champion (CChamp) unless you take out the deity restrictions. Hmm... I have a weird, but imo cool idea: while it's easier to do it with 2 monk levels, you only need a couple of feats to qualify for Sacred Fist. A warforged sacred fist can be incredibly cool imo - and it has full BAB and full casting (text trumps tables, and the text says all class levels).
dman11235 01-28-08, 05:39 PM	Hmm, sacred fist and two levels of Divine Oracle instead of monk will still net you evasion! Also: DMM persist is only broken if your DM has never heard of dispel magic. And possibly if you allow the persisting of spells you couldn't normally persist (don't have the spell slots). Even without DMM, persist is an excellent way to make a powerhouse melee from your cleric. You just need to be a higher level, that's all.
The_Shaman 01-28-08, 07:45 PM	I don't think DMM persist is broken in itself - strong, sure, but not broken. Add in Nightsticks, however, and it goes through the roof
JulesCARV 01-29-08, 12:26 AM	Ruby Knight Vindicator would give 8/10 casting and full base attack bonus along with other things, but it would be very hard to get into as a warforged without taking experience penalties -- you'd either have to spend two feats on martial study and martial stance, in addition to your metamagic, divine metamagic, and probably a warforged body feats (unless you're going the monk's belt + default composite plating route), or you'd have to go into crusader, which would require something like, I dunno, crusader 2/cleric 3 to avoid experience penalties. To top it all off, you have to worship Wee Jas, who may not offer the domains you want, and you may be playing in Eberron anyway and as such not have her as a normally worshippable deity. (Of course, you could worship Wee Jas in Eberron and still get spells, but everyone would think you're a loon and there's no church dedicated to her or anything.)
RandomAction 01-30-08, 12:26 AM	Thanks everyone for the help. I have decided to go for the sovereign speaker PrC, in FoE. It's a nine level class, which is odd, but you gain a total of nine bonus domains, 3 extra domain spell slots, 6/9 BAB and 7/9 spellcasting. I know that it doesn't half the BAB that I would like, but considering how many abilitites you gain from the bonus domains, it kinda makes up for it. Now, I am going to work on my cleric 'Gish'. When I am finished, I will be posting it in the CO boards for review. And again, my thanks to all. Now if I can only get help with my airships question.
RandomAction 02-02-08, 11:35 PM	Here is a Link (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14994608#post14994608) to the thread in the CO Boards.