Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gixanthrax 02-07-08, 04:14 PM	After having read about nearly every available published resource, I've come to the conclusion, that this is probably the best PrC class for a sneaky but still melee- able rogue. I have to admit, that i have not yet read CSc, but i find it hard to believe that anything might top this class. Full BaB, nearly all non char. based skills as Class Skills( and hardly any rogue needs more than 10 ranks in Balance or tumble), d8-hit Die Ini- bonus and the great abilty to waer heavier armor without penalties. I know that sudden strike is not as good as SA, but is there anything I'm not seeing right now? How hard would it be to add this PrC to a char( Rogue6/ Barb 1) in a running campaign?
GorunNova 02-08-08, 01:46 AM	its not that Sudden Strike isent as Strong as Sneak Attack.. Sudden Strike totaly sucks for a class combo like Rouge/Barbarian! You got noting to trigger of your Sudden strike so you will be using it once per Encounter (if you win the ini) and thats it you loos Rogue special abilitys and tumbel you can never heave enoug tumbel dude moving right thrue the square of an enemy whitout roling a dice is totaly awesom ^^! If you still want to go whit Sudden Strike max out Use Magic Device and buy a lot of Scrolls Of Greater Invisebility befor you enter this class! Or Simple keep being a rogue/barbarin whit out a PrC thats prety strong and cool!
gixanthrax 02-08-08, 10:04 AM	Ok generally speaking you might be right but these are no real problems for my build( shadow, dark Whispergnome with dodge/mobilty/spring attack and a greatsword) Sudden Strike totaly sucks for a class combo like Rouge/Barbarian! The level in barbarian got something to do with my chars backstory, and the additional speed is also good( currently a base speed of 75 feet) You got noting to trigger of your Sudden strike fortunately i have HiPs and 90% concealment and Hide at +28 before rolling a d20. you loos Rogue special abilitys only slippery mind and eventually opportunist are worth the effort, but generally speaking: He who is not seen is seldom Targeted ... and most often I'm quite a distance away from my allies and hardly ever end a turn in a sqaure adjacent to an enemy... and being able to move 150 feet in one round without a penalty to MS und Hide is really awesome. tumbel you can never heave enoug tumbel dude moving right thrue the square of an enemy whitout roling a dice is totaly awesom ^^! ähm, do I misinterpret your post or are you misinterpreting the tumble rules. Tumble let's you roll a dice to get past an opponent without AoOs... In nearly 90% of all cases it's enough to pass through an opponents threatend sqaure and with a plus 12 to roll that i already got... If you still want to go whit Sudden Strike max out Use Magic Device and buy a lot of Scrolls Of Greater Invisebility befor you enter this class! As said befor, I'm pretty nearly invisible all the time to my good hide and MS score. Also take into account the Darkstalker feat. Oh and UMD is a skill i generally neglect totally, my build ain't got enough skill points to spend, my Cha mod is terrible, and we are in a campaign that does not sprout that many cool magical tools lyng around that are UMD-able. also a DC of 25 or higher would mean if i had maxed UMD out that i still nneded to roll 15 at CL 10... Or Simple keep being a rogue/barbarin whit out a PrC thats prety strong and cool! I had thought about that earlier, maybe I'll take one more level of Barbarian to further bolster my HP and to obtain improved uncanny dodge, but thats the maximum. Any body els got some help/ advise/ alternate recommendations?
war_thog 02-09-08, 09:36 AM	90% concealment? The best you can get lis total concealment at 50%. It's not possible to be more visibly not there than being invisible. Your character isnt any harder to hit than someone swinging a sword with his eyes closed (50%). Suddden Strike totaly sucks for a class combo like Rouge/Barbarian! On a side note I didn't know that makeup could Sudden Strike.
BlackBladeJimmy 02-09-08, 07:14 PM	The 90% concealment comes from the Shadow Blend ability of the shadow template (MotP pg 190). On the other hand, I believe that book is 3.0, so I don't know how it would translate to the new concealment rules...
gixanthrax 02-10-08, 06:13 AM	yupp, shadow blend is correct. my DM houserouled that 90% concealment would mean a 45% miss chance ... Still the question: Any other opinions/recommendations ?
GorunNova 02-10-08, 12:23 PM	yupp, shadow blend is correct. my DM houserouled that 90% concealment would mean a 45% miss chance ... Still the question: Any other opinions/recommendations ? If your Dm lets you Sneak whit Every Singel Strike becos you are about always invisebil. Get the Spectral Skirmisher Feat +4 instead of +2 to an attack if your invisibil and then get at mutch sneak/sudden strike as you can. Befor you enter your prestigclass take a level ninja for extra suddenstrike then take your prestigclass full and complet your rouge whit a set up like this you are a totaly broken sneak machin!
The_Shaman 02-10-08, 06:57 PM	I know that sudden strike is not as good as SA, but is there anything I'm not seeing right now? How hard would it be to add this PrC to a char( Rogue6/ Barb 1) in a running campaign? Yep, it's okay and fairly straightforward. You can enter it as it is, and I don't think you'll have ayn serious problems. Something like rogue 13/barb2/DC 5, eventually, if you don't go for another PRC after that. Mind you, I prefer a Nightsong Enforcer for the same role, but you can have both, I suppose. The DC has a better skill selection and a better special attack progression, but the NE has a few more rogue abilities, sneak attack instead of SS, and much nicer feat prerequisites (improved initiative vs dodge+mobility). DC is imo better alone, while NE is somewhat better when skulking with friends.