Dread Necromancer as a Prestige Class [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dread Necromancer as a Prestige Class [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Igfig
05-01-07, 05:34 PM DREAD NECROMANCER
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a349/Igfig/dread.jpg

Hit Die: d6.

Requirements
To qualify to become a dread necromancer, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Concentration 9 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks
Spells: Ability to cast at least two arcane spells of the Necromancy school of 4th level or higher.

Class Skills
The arcane trickster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana, religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

The Dread Necromancer
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Charnel touch, rebuke undead +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Lich body DR 2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Fear aura, mental bastion +2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Lich body DR 4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Enervating touch, fortification +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Lich body DR 6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Mental bastion +4, undead mastery +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Lich body DR 8 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Craft Wondrous Item, fortification +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Lich transformation +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the dread necromancer prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dread necromancers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new dread necromancerer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an arcane trickster, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Charnel Touch: Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer's body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack that deals 1d8 points of negative energy damage plus half her class level.
Rebuke Undead: A dread necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric. This stacks with Rebuke Undead gained from any other source. Also, the dread necromancer gets a bonus to her effective cleric level equal to half of her levels in other arcane spellcasting classes. For instance, a Sorcerer 8/Dread Necromancer 1 would rebuke as a 5th-level cleric.
If the Dread Necromancer formerly had the Turn Undead ability, it is replaced by Rebuke Undead.
Lich Body: Starting at 2nd level, a necromancer begins her journey into undeath. The first symptom is her body's increased resilience to physical harm. She gains DR 2/bludgeoning and magic. This DR increases by 2 every 2 levels.
Fear Aura: Beginning at 3rd level, a dread necromancer radiates a 5-foot radius fear aura as a free action. Enemies in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + her class level + her Cha modifier) or become shaken. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that dread necromancer's fear aura for 24 hours.
Mental Bastion: Also starting at 3rd level, a dread necromancer gains a +2 bonus on saving throws made to resist sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, or disease. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level.
Fortification: Beginning at 5th level, a dread necromancer gains 25% resistance to critical hits; this is the equivalent of the light fortification special armour ability. At 9th level, this resistance increases to 50% resistance.
Enervating Touch: When a dread necromancer reaches 5th level, she gains the ability to bestow negative levels when she uses her charnel touch attack. Each day, she can bestow a number of negative levels equal to her class level, but no more than two negative levels with a single touch. The saving throw to remove the negative levels has a DC of 10 + her class level + her Cha modifier.
Activating this ability is a swift action. The effect lasts until she makes a successful charnel touch attack.
Undead Mastery: All undead creatures created by a dread necromancer who has reached 7th level or higher gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 2 additional hit points per Hit Die.
In addition, when a dread necromancer uses animate dead to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell).
Similarly, when a dread necromancer uses control undead, she can control 2 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 2 HD per level normally granted by the spell).
Craft Wondrous Item: At 9th level, a dread necromancer gains Craft Wondrous Item as a bonus feat. This helps her prepare the phylactery required to become a lich.
Lich Transformation: When a dread necromancer attains 10th level, she undergoes a hideous transformation and becomes a lich. Her type changes to undead, and she gains all the traits of the undead. She no longer has a Constitution score, all her existing Hit Dice become d12s, and she must reroll her hit points. A dread necromancer need not pay experience points or gold to create a phylactery.

So, any comments? I made this just because all the other transformational classes out there (Fiendblooded, Dragon Disciple) are PrCs rather than base classes.
Lixith
05-01-07, 11:15 PM Is it just me, or is that chick TOTALLY hot?
Edit.... um... that is until she reaches level 10....
Igfig
05-02-07, 01:01 AM Two words: Gentle Repose.

It won't quite hide the fact that your body is pumped full of negative energy, but it will certainly keep you mostly fresh.

But crunchily, any suggestions? Should Undead Mastery come earlier? Should I include more (or fewer?) of the base class version's abilities? At the moment the only class abilities that aren't subsumed into the lich template are Rebuke Undead, Enervating Touch, Undead Mastery, and Craft Wondrous Item.
Fabius Maximus
05-02-07, 07:30 AM 1. Thank you, thank you, thank you. A PrC version was sorely needed. Could you do Warmage and Beguiler, too? :)

2. It seems like you wanted to implement almost all abilities of the base class. It feels a bit crammed, don't you think? For example, you could alternate between DR and fortification instead of taking both. First Light Fortification, then DR 4, then medium fort, then DR 6.

I want to suggest also that you restrict the class to sponaneous casters only. The base classes' flavour goes in this direction and there is no reason to give wizards another alternative to specialize in necromancy.
Igfig
05-02-07, 10:05 AM 2. It seems like you wanted to implement almost all abilities of the base class. It feels a bit crammed, don't you think? For example, you could alternate between DR and fortification instead of taking both. First Light Fortification, then DR 4, then medium fort, then DR 6.
Ah... didn't I do that already? I did leave the fortification until later levels, but that's because it only arrives later in the original. I use a rough guideline of (level ability is gained by PrC) = (level ability is gained by base class)/2.

And do remember that most of the class abilities are subsumed into the Lich template.

I want to suggest also that you restrict the class to sponaneous casters only. The base classes' flavour goes in this direction and there is no reason to give wizards another alternative to specialize in necromancy.
Well, I'd say that a wizard is already not the best choice for someone who wishes to raise an undead army; arcane necromancers are more into the fear and energy drain and suchlike. (See The Revised Necromancer's Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129).)

In any case, I always thought of Dread Necromancer as a transformative class with some nice perks rather than a pure necromancer one. It would be a bit mean to only allow sorcerers this path to lichdom, especially since most liches I know are wizards (Xykon excepted).
PaleMaster_TatselGanav
05-02-07, 11:55 AM Hah hah! What a wonderful way to start my day! This looks to be a superb class, but I must say, I am used to a higher level of power than most games. It could be a bit overpowered, but I really don't know what to take out. Overall, I would say, superb job. I will be using this in my games.
ShinQuickMan
05-02-07, 12:20 PM Rebuke Undead: A dread necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric. This stacks with Rebuke Undead gained from any other source. If the Dread Necromancer formerly had the Turn Undead ability, it is replaced by Rebuke Undead.

Similarly, when a dread necromancer uses control undead, she can control 2 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 2 HD per level normally granted by the spell).

Hmmm... Does this mean that the effective level of rebuking/commanding attampts are only based off the dread necromancer's level (plus any cleric level the character may posses)? That seems kinda weak don't you think?

In addition, when a dread necromancer uses animate dead to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell).

I'm sure you meant caster level, right?

Well, other than that, I think that this isn't a bad prestige class at all (then again, I've never actually read Tome of Horrors, so...)
Igfig
05-02-07, 02:32 PM Rebuke Undead: A dread necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric. This stacks with Rebuke Undead gained from any other source. If the Dread Necromancer formerly had the Turn Undead ability, it is replaced by Rebuke Undead.
Similarly, when a dread necromancer uses control undead, she can control 2 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 2 HD per level normally granted by the spell).
Hmmm... Does this mean that the effective level of rebuking/commanding attempts are only based off of the dread necromancer's level (plus any cleric level the character may possess)? That seems kinda weak, don't you think?
Well, I didn't want to steal too much thunder form the divine classes, since they're the ones who do all the rebuking normally. I guess it is a little weak right now... perhaps if I added one-half of her arcane class level?

In addition, when a dread necromancer uses animate dead to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell).
I'm sure you meant caster level, right?
Actually, no. The Dread Necromancer in Heroes of Horror goes by class level rather than caster level, perhaps to encourage people to stay in the class longer instead of PrCing out.
Fabius Maximus
05-02-07, 06:48 PM Ah... didn't I do that already? I did leave the fortification until later levels, but that's because it only arrives later in the original. I use a rough guideline of (level ability is gained by PrC) = (level ability is gained by base class)/2.

And do remember that most of the class abilities are subsumed into the Lich template. I know. But as it is now, it feels a bit on the strong side.

In any case, I always thought of Dread Necromancer as a transformative class with some nice perks rather than a pure necromancer one. It would be a bit mean to only allow sorcerers this path to lichdom, especially since most liches I know are wizards (Xykon excepted).
And the problem is? Wizards do get bonus feats, which can be crafting feats. And Craft Wondrous Item can be taken on quite a low level. Sorcerers are gimped.

I think that the newer spontaneous specialists were introduced as a way to make the sorcerer better, and that would be better as PrCs.
But, well, it's your call.
Igfig
05-02-07, 08:00 PM I know. But as it is now, it feels a bit on the strong side.
I agree, it does feel powerful... but that may be because the base class was already strong, and this is the same thing but condensed. So, what might make it better (that is, weaker)? At the moment I'm considering reducing the number of negative levels available for Enervating Touch and removing the fortification gained at level 9 (it gets surpassed so soon, anyway).

And the problem is? Wizards do get bonus feats, which can be crafting feats. And Craft Wondrous Item can be taken at quite a low level. Sorcerers are gimped.

I think that the newer spontaneous specialists were introduced as a way to make the sorcerer better, and that would be better as PrCs.
But, well, it's your call.
I thought about what you said for quite a while, but eventually decided to keep it as-is for three reasons.
1. If the wizard took Craft Wondrous Item early, whoop-de-doo! They won't get it at level 9, then.
2. This class is by no means the fast-track to lichdom. You can't become a lich before level 17 through this class; if the wizard wants to do it earlier, he can build his own phylactery at level 11.
3. This class already benefits sorcerers plenty, because the saves for all of its abilities are Cha-based. That sorcerer with her Cha eight points above the wizard will have forty more HD of undead to control by the end of the class.
Orion_Danthyer
05-02-07, 08:24 PM Wow, its a little overpowered. I say this because by the time your 17th lvl, your a lich with 9th lvl spells, and your ecl is 17. People are going to be playing this rather than the Dragon Diciple.

1. A lich is much more powerful than a Half-Dragon

2. Its a little powerful to deal negative lvls and deal damage. I hope it is effected by pro. Evil and the other types of spells.

3. You can get full casting, a Dragon Diciple gets only bonus spells. Not progression.

All Sorcerors will become this class and the Dragon Diciple will most likely be forgotten.
Fabius Maximus
05-03-07, 06:13 AM The Dragon Disciple isn't even a caster class. It's a class for melee builds. So the two don't compare. Besides, the flavour isn't the same. Someone who wants to play a dragon descendent sorcerer wouldn't play a Dread Necromancer. (Except he's into necromancy.)

@Igfig: I accept your reasons. I didn't notice the CHA-based abilities before you mentioned them, so I guess it's okay.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Igfig 05-01-07, 05:34 PM	DREAD NECROMANCER http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a349/Igfig/dread.jpg Hit Die: d6. Requirements To qualify to become a dread necromancer, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria. Alignment: Any nongood. Skills: Concentration 9 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks Spells: Ability to cast at least two arcane spells of the Necromancy school of 4th level or higher. Class Skills The arcane trickster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana, religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. The Dread Necromancer Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Charnel touch, rebuke undead +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Lich body DR 2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Fear aura, mental bastion +2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Lich body DR 4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Enervating touch, fortification +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Lich body DR 6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Mental bastion +4, undead mastery +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Lich body DR 8 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Craft Wondrous Item, fortification +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Lich transformation +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class Class Features All of the following are Class Features of the dread necromancer prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dread necromancers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Spells per Day: When a new dread necromancerer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an arcane trickster, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day. Charnel Touch: Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer's body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack that deals 1d8 points of negative energy damage plus half her class level. Rebuke Undead: A dread necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric. This stacks with Rebuke Undead gained from any other source. Also, the dread necromancer gets a bonus to her effective cleric level equal to half of her levels in other arcane spellcasting classes. For instance, a Sorcerer 8/Dread Necromancer 1 would rebuke as a 5th-level cleric. If the Dread Necromancer formerly had the Turn Undead ability, it is replaced by Rebuke Undead. Lich Body: Starting at 2nd level, a necromancer begins her journey into undeath. The first symptom is her body's increased resilience to physical harm. She gains DR 2/bludgeoning and magic. This DR increases by 2 every 2 levels. Fear Aura: Beginning at 3rd level, a dread necromancer radiates a 5-foot radius fear aura as a free action. Enemies in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + her class level + her Cha modifier) or become shaken. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that dread necromancer's fear aura for 24 hours. Mental Bastion: Also starting at 3rd level, a dread necromancer gains a +2 bonus on saving throws made to resist sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, or disease. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level. Fortification: Beginning at 5th level, a dread necromancer gains 25% resistance to critical hits; this is the equivalent of the light fortification special armour ability. At 9th level, this resistance increases to 50% resistance. Enervating Touch: When a dread necromancer reaches 5th level, she gains the ability to bestow negative levels when she uses her charnel touch attack. Each day, she can bestow a number of negative levels equal to her class level, but no more than two negative levels with a single touch. The saving throw to remove the negative levels has a DC of 10 + her class level + her Cha modifier. Activating this ability is a swift action. The effect lasts until she makes a successful charnel touch attack. Undead Mastery: All undead creatures created by a dread necromancer who has reached 7th level or higher gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 2 additional hit points per Hit Die. In addition, when a dread necromancer uses animate dead to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Similarly, when a dread necromancer uses control undead, she can control 2 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 2 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Craft Wondrous Item: At 9th level, a dread necromancer gains Craft Wondrous Item as a bonus feat. This helps her prepare the phylactery required to become a lich. Lich Transformation: When a dread necromancer attains 10th level, she undergoes a hideous transformation and becomes a lich. Her type changes to undead, and she gains all the traits of the undead. She no longer has a Constitution score, all her existing Hit Dice become d12s, and she must reroll her hit points. A dread necromancer need not pay experience points or gold to create a phylactery. So, any comments? I made this just because all the other transformational classes out there (Fiendblooded, Dragon Disciple) are PrCs rather than base classes.
Lixith 05-01-07, 11:15 PM	Is it just me, or is that chick TOTALLY hot? Edit.... um... that is until she reaches level 10....
Igfig 05-02-07, 01:01 AM	Two words: Gentle Repose. It won't quite hide the fact that your body is pumped full of negative energy, but it will certainly keep you mostly fresh. But crunchily, any suggestions? Should Undead Mastery come earlier? Should I include more (or fewer?) of the base class version's abilities? At the moment the only class abilities that aren't subsumed into the lich template are Rebuke Undead, Enervating Touch, Undead Mastery, and Craft Wondrous Item.
Fabius Maximus 05-02-07, 07:30 AM	1. Thank you, thank you, thank you. A PrC version was sorely needed. Could you do Warmage and Beguiler, too? :) 2. It seems like you wanted to implement almost all abilities of the base class. It feels a bit crammed, don't you think? For example, you could alternate between DR and fortification instead of taking both. First Light Fortification, then DR 4, then medium fort, then DR 6. I want to suggest also that you restrict the class to sponaneous casters only. The base classes' flavour goes in this direction and there is no reason to give wizards another alternative to specialize in necromancy.
Igfig 05-02-07, 10:05 AM	2. It seems like you wanted to implement almost all abilities of the base class. It feels a bit crammed, don't you think? For example, you could alternate between DR and fortification instead of taking both. First Light Fortification, then DR 4, then medium fort, then DR 6. Ah... didn't I do that already? I did leave the fortification until later levels, but that's because it only arrives later in the original. I use a rough guideline of (level ability is gained by PrC) = (level ability is gained by base class)/2. And do remember that most of the class abilities are subsumed into the Lich template. I want to suggest also that you restrict the class to sponaneous casters only. The base classes' flavour goes in this direction and there is no reason to give wizards another alternative to specialize in necromancy. Well, I'd say that a wizard is already not the best choice for someone who wishes to raise an undead army; arcane necromancers are more into the fear and energy drain and suchlike. (See The Revised Necromancer's Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129).) In any case, I always thought of Dread Necromancer as a transformative class with some nice perks rather than a pure necromancer one. It would be a bit mean to only allow sorcerers this path to lichdom, especially since most liches I know are wizards (Xykon excepted).
PaleMaster_TatselGanav 05-02-07, 11:55 AM	Hah hah! What a wonderful way to start my day! This looks to be a superb class, but I must say, I am used to a higher level of power than most games. It could be a bit overpowered, but I really don't know what to take out. Overall, I would say, superb job. I will be using this in my games.
ShinQuickMan 05-02-07, 12:20 PM	Rebuke Undead: A dread necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric. This stacks with Rebuke Undead gained from any other source. If the Dread Necromancer formerly had the Turn Undead ability, it is replaced by Rebuke Undead. Similarly, when a dread necromancer uses control undead, she can control 2 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 2 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Hmmm... Does this mean that the effective level of rebuking/commanding attampts are only based off the dread necromancer's level (plus any cleric level the character may posses)? That seems kinda weak don't you think? In addition, when a dread necromancer uses animate dead to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell). I'm sure you meant caster level, right? Well, other than that, I think that this isn't a bad prestige class at all (then again, I've never actually read Tome of Horrors, so...)
Igfig 05-02-07, 02:32 PM	Rebuke Undead: A dread necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric. This stacks with Rebuke Undead gained from any other source. If the Dread Necromancer formerly had the Turn Undead ability, it is replaced by Rebuke Undead. Similarly, when a dread necromancer uses control undead, she can control 2 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 2 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Hmmm... Does this mean that the effective level of rebuking/commanding attempts are only based off of the dread necromancer's level (plus any cleric level the character may possess)? That seems kinda weak, don't you think? Well, I didn't want to steal too much thunder form the divine classes, since they're the ones who do all the rebuking normally. I guess it is a little weak right now... perhaps if I added one-half of her arcane class level? In addition, when a dread necromancer uses animate dead to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell). I'm sure you meant caster level, right? Actually, no. The Dread Necromancer in Heroes of Horror goes by class level rather than caster level, perhaps to encourage people to stay in the class longer instead of PrCing out.
Fabius Maximus 05-02-07, 06:48 PM	Ah... didn't I do that already? I did leave the fortification until later levels, but that's because it only arrives later in the original. I use a rough guideline of (level ability is gained by PrC) = (level ability is gained by base class)/2. And do remember that most of the class abilities are subsumed into the Lich template. I know. But as it is now, it feels a bit on the strong side. In any case, I always thought of Dread Necromancer as a transformative class with some nice perks rather than a pure necromancer one. It would be a bit mean to only allow sorcerers this path to lichdom, especially since most liches I know are wizards (Xykon excepted). And the problem is? Wizards do get bonus feats, which can be crafting feats. And Craft Wondrous Item can be taken on quite a low level. Sorcerers are gimped. I think that the newer spontaneous specialists were introduced as a way to make the sorcerer better, and that would be better as PrCs. But, well, it's your call.
Igfig 05-02-07, 08:00 PM	I know. But as it is now, it feels a bit on the strong side. I agree, it does feel powerful... but that may be because the base class was already strong, and this is the same thing but condensed. So, what might make it better (that is, weaker)? At the moment I'm considering reducing the number of negative levels available for Enervating Touch and removing the fortification gained at level 9 (it gets surpassed so soon, anyway). And the problem is? Wizards do get bonus feats, which can be crafting feats. And Craft Wondrous Item can be taken at quite a low level. Sorcerers are gimped. I think that the newer spontaneous specialists were introduced as a way to make the sorcerer better, and that would be better as PrCs. But, well, it's your call. I thought about what you said for quite a while, but eventually decided to keep it as-is for three reasons. 1. If the wizard took Craft Wondrous Item early, whoop-de-doo! They won't get it at level 9, then. 2. This class is by no means the fast-track to lichdom. You can't become a lich before level 17 through this class; if the wizard wants to do it earlier, he can build his own phylactery at level 11. 3. This class already benefits sorcerers plenty, because the saves for all of its abilities are Cha-based. That sorcerer with her Cha eight points above the wizard will have forty more HD of undead to control by the end of the class.
Orion_Danthyer 05-02-07, 08:24 PM	Wow, its a little overpowered. I say this because by the time your 17th lvl, your a lich with 9th lvl spells, and your ecl is 17. People are going to be playing this rather than the Dragon Diciple. 1. A lich is much more powerful than a Half-Dragon 2. Its a little powerful to deal negative lvls and deal damage. I hope it is effected by pro. Evil and the other types of spells. 3. You can get full casting, a Dragon Diciple gets only bonus spells. Not progression. All Sorcerors will become this class and the Dragon Diciple will most likely be forgotten.
Fabius Maximus 05-03-07, 06:13 AM	The Dragon Disciple isn't even a caster class. It's a class for melee builds. So the two don't compare. Besides, the flavour isn't the same. Someone who wants to play a dragon descendent sorcerer wouldn't play a Dread Necromancer. (Except he's into necromancy.) @Igfig: I accept your reasons. I didn't notice the CHA-based abilities before you mentioned them, so I guess it's okay.