Duelists and armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Duelists and armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
aramilcaelvan
03-15-07, 05:34 PM I was just skimming over the duelist prc, and I was wondering, how on earth do duelist builds survive in combat without wearing any armor?
crimsonwolf
03-15-07, 05:39 PM dodging .. AC is a abstract way.. you can dodge or you can have thick armor
UAMDB
03-15-07, 05:43 PM By adding levels of either Monk or Swordsage. Dex, Int, and Wis all added to AC is nice. Plus Bracers of Armor, and Amulets of Natural Armor.
DeathXI
03-23-07, 04:29 PM Duelists add their int bonus to their AC at a rate of 1 point per level.

So if you have someone with 30 Int taking the class (Unlikely...someone with 30 int will almost certainly be a wizard) -- that's 10 points to your AC without worrying about Armor. Add in Bracers of Armor/Amulet of Natural armor as states above, and or a headband of intellect, and you've got a moderate AC without wearing any armor, and a pretty cool character IMO
Taureus_Drakken
03-24-07, 02:30 PM So if you have someone with 30 Int taking the class (Unlikely...someone with 30 int will almost certainly be a wizard)

That or a Swashbuckler or Warblade...both of those classes get considerable bonuses for having a High Int.

Just my:twocents: .
Empiro
03-24-07, 02:36 PM Duelists can get pretty insane AC because of all the ways you can stack stats. At the base, you get up to +8 from bracers of armor (or +6 from improved mage armor if you're cheap). You can also find many ways to improve Dex, Int, and even Wis (if you buy a monk's belt). Combine all that with the elaborate parry class ability, and your AC will be through the roof.
Partisan
03-24-07, 06:48 PM I remembered the Dragon issue 301 that focused on swashbuckling characters. they put some feats for rapier-fencing characters into this issue.

especially the feats
Circle Student (uses doge as prerequisite) +1 additional Dodge bonus
Circle Master
Single Blade Style +2 dodge bonus

+ the fencing style feat Fencer's Insight +1 competence Bonus to AC

You get all in all another +4 to AC and it works also pretty well with the duellist.
The_Shaman
03-24-07, 08:17 PM Yeah, what most people here say... Duelists can actually have among the highest ACs later on imo. Also, afaik you can get the bonuses of a defending off-hand weapon without having to attack with it (hence ruin your AB/Precise strike). Dagger of Defense, anyone?
paladin2019
03-24-07, 08:41 PM Also, afaik you can get the bonuses of a defending off-hand weapon without having to attack with it (hence ruin your AB/Precise strike). Dagger of Defense, anyone?

Are we going to start this again? You must use a weapon to get bennies from it, that includes defending weapons. Whether you make the attack roll or not, you take the two-weapon fighting penalties if you claim bonuses from a defending weapon in your off-hand.
crimsonwolf
03-24-07, 08:57 PM haaa you mean my boot knife deonst just stack with a magical arua :P
The_Shaman
03-24-07, 09:33 PM Are we going to start this again? You must use a weapon to get bennies from it, that includes defending weapons. Whether you make the attack roll or not, you take the two-weapon fighting penalties if you claim bonuses from a defending weapon in your off-hand.

Some people say one thing, some another. I checked the TWF description and the defending description and I don't see why not. TWF says you can make an extra attack, defending doesn't limit the choice of actions when you can get the bonus. If there's been a CustServ decision or another official answer, please post it or PM me.
paladin2019
03-24-07, 10:43 PM Defending is use activated, yeah? How does one use a weapon? Even if it is not used to attack, it is still used and thus imposes two weapon fighting penalties if used in the off-hand.
runestar
03-25-07, 01:28 AM Bracers of armour
1 lv of monk+kungfu genius adds int mod to ac. Or monk's belt/monk for wis mod to ac.
Expertise
Dodge bonuses
Fighting defensively
ring of prot/amulet of NA

Definitely not low.:)
The_Shaman
03-25-07, 07:53 AM Defending is use activated, yeah? How does one use a weapon? Even if it is not used to attack, it is still used and thus imposes two weapon fighting penalties if used in the off-hand.

TWF speaks of getting an extra attack, and "when you fight this way" you get the penalties.
"If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way."

Duelist particularly refers to attacking with an off-hand weapon. It's a matter to decide for your own game, but imo the rules show sufficient support for the idea of using a defending weapon without attacking with it. N
TangeFree
04-10-07, 01:33 PM don't forget that if you have 5+ ranks in tumble, the fighting defensively dodge bonus goues up from +2 to +3
The_Shaman
04-10-07, 02:42 PM You could include the OA (I believe) rule that 15+ ranks in tumble increase the bonus by a further +1 (defensive fighting) / +2 (total defense).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aramilcaelvan 03-15-07, 05:34 PM	I was just skimming over the duelist prc, and I was wondering, how on earth do duelist builds survive in combat without wearing any armor?
crimsonwolf 03-15-07, 05:39 PM	dodging .. AC is a abstract way.. you can dodge or you can have thick armor
UAMDB 03-15-07, 05:43 PM	By adding levels of either Monk or Swordsage. Dex, Int, and Wis all added to AC is nice. Plus Bracers of Armor, and Amulets of Natural Armor.
DeathXI 03-23-07, 04:29 PM	Duelists add their int bonus to their AC at a rate of 1 point per level. So if you have someone with 30 Int taking the class (Unlikely...someone with 30 int will almost certainly be a wizard) -- that's 10 points to your AC without worrying about Armor. Add in Bracers of Armor/Amulet of Natural armor as states above, and or a headband of intellect, and you've got a moderate AC without wearing any armor, and a pretty cool character IMO
Taureus_Drakken 03-24-07, 02:30 PM	So if you have someone with 30 Int taking the class (Unlikely...someone with 30 int will almost certainly be a wizard) That or a Swashbuckler or Warblade...both of those classes get considerable bonuses for having a High Int. Just my:twocents: .
Empiro 03-24-07, 02:36 PM	Duelists can get pretty insane AC because of all the ways you can stack stats. At the base, you get up to +8 from bracers of armor (or +6 from improved mage armor if you're cheap). You can also find many ways to improve Dex, Int, and even Wis (if you buy a monk's belt). Combine all that with the elaborate parry class ability, and your AC will be through the roof.
Partisan 03-24-07, 06:48 PM	I remembered the Dragon issue 301 that focused on swashbuckling characters. they put some feats for rapier-fencing characters into this issue. especially the feats Circle Student (uses doge as prerequisite) +1 additional Dodge bonus Circle Master Single Blade Style +2 dodge bonus + the fencing style feat Fencer's Insight +1 competence Bonus to AC You get all in all another +4 to AC and it works also pretty well with the duellist.
The_Shaman 03-24-07, 08:17 PM	Yeah, what most people here say... Duelists can actually have among the highest ACs later on imo. Also, afaik you can get the bonuses of a defending off-hand weapon without having to attack with it (hence ruin your AB/Precise strike). Dagger of Defense, anyone?
paladin2019 03-24-07, 08:41 PM	Also, afaik you can get the bonuses of a defending off-hand weapon without having to attack with it (hence ruin your AB/Precise strike). Dagger of Defense, anyone? Are we going to start this again? You must use a weapon to get bennies from it, that includes defending weapons. Whether you make the attack roll or not, you take the two-weapon fighting penalties if you claim bonuses from a defending weapon in your off-hand.
crimsonwolf 03-24-07, 08:57 PM	haaa you mean my boot knife deonst just stack with a magical arua :P
The_Shaman 03-24-07, 09:33 PM	Are we going to start this again? You must use a weapon to get bennies from it, that includes defending weapons. Whether you make the attack roll or not, you take the two-weapon fighting penalties if you claim bonuses from a defending weapon in your off-hand. Some people say one thing, some another. I checked the TWF description and the defending description and I don't see why not. TWF says you can make an extra attack, defending doesn't limit the choice of actions when you can get the bonus. If there's been a CustServ decision or another official answer, please post it or PM me.
paladin2019 03-24-07, 10:43 PM	Defending is use activated, yeah? How does one use a weapon? Even if it is not used to attack, it is still used and thus imposes two weapon fighting penalties if used in the off-hand.
runestar 03-25-07, 01:28 AM	Bracers of armour 1 lv of monk+kungfu genius adds int mod to ac. Or monk's belt/monk for wis mod to ac. Expertise Dodge bonuses Fighting defensively ring of prot/amulet of NA Definitely not low.:)
The_Shaman 03-25-07, 07:53 AM	Defending is use activated, yeah? How does one use a weapon? Even if it is not used to attack, it is still used and thus imposes two weapon fighting penalties if used in the off-hand. TWF speaks of getting an extra attack, and "when you fight this way" you get the penalties. "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way." Duelist particularly refers to attacking with an off-hand weapon. It's a matter to decide for your own game, but imo the rules show sufficient support for the idea of using a defending weapon without attacking with it. N
TangeFree 04-10-07, 01:33 PM	don't forget that if you have 5+ ranks in tumble, the fighting defensively dodge bonus goues up from +2 to +3
The_Shaman 04-10-07, 02:42 PM	You could include the OA (I believe) rule that 15+ ranks in tumble increase the bonus by a further +1 (defensive fighting) / +2 (total defense).