Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Damuna 07-09-07, 06:25 PM	In the entry for the dwarven defender it says: A dwarven defender is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and shields. Since it doesn't actually list its definition of armour and shield types, would that mean the exotic shield and armour feats from Races of Stone are automatically gained?
Lord_Ao 07-09-07, 06:32 PM	Off the top of my head I would say no, but that isn't a certainty.
Damuna 07-09-07, 06:38 PM	Off the top of my head I would say no, but that isn't a certainty. Personally, I'd say no as well, since it's taking advantage of something which was written before the subject was expanded.
Tema69 07-09-07, 07:58 PM	I'd say it only goes for the standard armour from PHB, but ask you GM, don't forget, he makes the calls.
Damuna 07-09-07, 10:14 PM	I'd say it only goes for the standard armour from PHB, but ask you GM, don't forget, he makes the calls. I'm the GM. :D
Imreallyagreatredwyrm 07-10-07, 01:59 AM	Exotic armour and shields!?
Damuna 07-10-07, 02:11 AM	Exotic armour and shields!? They're from Races of Stone. Basically, they're like exotic weapons, but they don't use a special category (they still conform to light, medium and heavy armour, plus the shield proficiency stuff). If you find that mind-boggling, RoS also has armour specialisation. :D
Imreallyagreatredwyrm 07-10-07, 02:09 PM	Weird.
Tuhljin 07-10-07, 07:52 PM	I'd say "no." Tower shields are in, though.
Legdiwena 07-11-07, 09:50 AM	Anything exotic would require a feat unless otherwise specifically granted.
claypigeons 07-12-07, 04:45 AM	By the word of the rule, it works. By the spirit of the rule, it doesn't. I really believe the intent was to give you proficiency in the armours found in the PHB.
Damuna 07-12-07, 09:22 AM	By the word of the rule, it works. Which was exactly why I asked. :)
Legdiwena 07-15-07, 03:36 PM	Did exotic armor/shields even exist when DMG came out?
Genetic 07-15-07, 06:24 PM	Did exotic armor/shields even exist when DMG came out? No.
Legdiwena 07-15-07, 06:39 PM	I would rule it was not intended to grant exotic armor/shield, but could take a feat to grant them. Notable exception, any exotic armor/shield of the Dwarven race would be included, namely ones that have dwarven as part of its name.
Snicker 07-23-07, 09:17 PM	Which was exactly why I asked. :) If you're the DM, why do you even care if something corresponds to the letter of the rule? The DM calls all the shots - all the rules are there for is to ensure balance. If you're following the letter, rather than the spirit of the rules, you obviously don't have the cares of balance in mind, so why does following the letter at all matter to you?
Felbarren 07-25-07, 04:48 AM	Aye, considering your the DM, you make the calls. But, in the interest of flavor, and since the Dwarven Defender could use a little boost, why not grant the 1st level of the class the Dwarven Armor Proficiency feat. The class is meant for dwarves only, the feat would only cover the specific armors under that feats heading, and would lend a nice touch to it all.
jaelis 07-25-07, 08:41 AM	Note that fighter, cleric, and paladin say that they grant proficiency with all shields (except perhaps tower shields). And blackguards, aristocrats, and warriors are also proficient with all armor and shields. I wouldn't give all those classes the relevant exotic proficiencies... it wouldn't make them very exotic.