Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nonsi 09-13-07, 08:28 AM	An Eldritch Nexus is a living breathing being of unparalleled innate access to spontaneous magic, combining eldritch, arcane and divine spellcasting into one perfect spontaneous wielder of magic. An Eldritch Nexus has one distinct ethos – experiencing magic in any manner and form possible. No other class comes even remotely close to the Eldritch Nexus when it comes to magical affinity. Requirements: Class Abilities: Eldritch Blast; Detect Magic at will; able to spontaneously cast 1st-level arcane spells and 1st-level divine spells; Spell Shield (as described in Dungeonscap). Spellcasting background: gained at least 2 levels of spontaneous arcane spellcaster being able to cast 1st level arcane spells and at least 2 levels of spontaneous divine spellcaster being able to cast 1st level divine spells. Invocations: must know at least 2 least invocations, one of which must have more than one generally defined effect (e.g. Entropic Warding). Skills: Concentration 6, Knowledge (arcane) 9, Knowledge (religion) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4, Spellcraft 9, UMD 4. Feats: Must have taken at least one of: Eschew Materials (PHB) / Energy Substitution (CA). Also must have taken at least one of: Combat Casting (PHB) / Somatic Weaponry (CM). Also must have taken at least one of: Insightful (CM) / Night Haunt (CA) / Spell Hand (CA). Class Features: BAB: poor Saves: good Will, poor Fort & Ref. Hit Die: d4 Skill Points: 2 + INT-mod Class Skills: Concentration, Decipher Script, Knowledge (arcane / religion / the planes), Spellcraft, UMD. Level Special Spellcasting ======================================== ========================== 1 Domain Spells: Magic +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 3 Spellblast* +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 5 Advanced Learning +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 7 Eldritch Spellweave* +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 8 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 9 Advanced Learning +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 10 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 11 Greatreach Blast* +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 12 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 13 Advanced Learning +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class 14 Zone of Magical Splendor+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class and +1 level of existing invocation-using class Domain Spells: Magic – The appropriate spells are added to the Eldritch Nexus's known spells. He can freely decide to place any of them in his arcane or divine "Spells-Known" list. The Eldritch Nexus gains no extra slots to prepare domain spells, but does gain the domain's granted power with a twist. For the purpose of using scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation, use 1/2 the highest Eldritch Nexus's highest caster level. Advanced Learning – The Eldritch Nexus further increases his spells' repertoire. Using this class feature, he can select a single spell to add to his spells known. The spell can be either arcane or divine and is added to the appropriate "Spells-Known" list. The Eldritch Nexus may select spells that belong to his original spell-list (either arcane or divine). * – As detailed for the Eldritch Theurge. Zone of Magical Splendor – once per day, as a full round action, an Eldritch Nexus can momentarily create a 5' radius field, centered on himself, that suppresses antimagic of all kinds. This ability can also be initiated from within antimagic. This affected area sheds a dim yellow light and lasts for 3 rounds plus 1 round per charisma modifier of the Eldritch Nexus. In case an Eldritch Nexus has an Antimagic Field on, using this ability automatically dismisses it. Playing an Eldritch Nexus: Magic is a wonderful thing, an art in its purest and most refined form. The two most wonderful things about it are diversity and usefulness. Personal power is nice, but it's secondary. An Eldritch Nexus would strive to increase the variety of things he can do with magic before anything else. Eldritch Nexuses prefer refining the magic within them over anything else, so it's quite uncommon to encounter one who practices more than a single item creation feat. Also, being aware of their superiority to others when it comes to magical availability, they are quite indifferent about sharing magical items with "less fortunate" allies and friends. The only exceptions are protective items, which they need so badly to level their low survivability. They tend to somewhat look down on non-spontaneous spellcasters, especially those that "push the envelope" in a never ending search for personal power, not taking the time to "fully appreciate magic for what it really is". Full fledged bards and bards taking Bard related PrCs (Fochlucan Lyrists in particular), on the other hand, are viewed with great respect, for striving to achieve many talents and their ability to touch magic in a way that's beyond the abilities of an Eldritch Nexus.
Khatoblepas 09-13-07, 10:17 AM	An Eldritch Nexus is a living breathing being of unparalleled innate access to spontaneous magic, combining eldritch, arcane and divine spellcasting into one perfect spontaneous wielder of magic. An Eldritch Nexus has one distinct ethos – experiencing magic in any manner and form possible. No other class comes even remotely close to the Eldritch Nexus when it comes to magical affinity. Requirements: [QUOTE] Class Abilities: Eldritch Blast; Detect Magic at will; able to spontaneously cast 1st-level arcane spells and 1st-level divine spells; Spell Shield (as described in Dragonscape). What? Dragonscape? Spellcasting background: Has a total of 7 or more known arcane spells of spell-levels 0 & 1st and a total of 8 or more known divine spells of spell-levels 0 & 1st. Sigh. Not this again. Beguiler/Warmage/Dread Necromancer 1 knows loads of arcane spells. Spirit Shamans spontaineously cast divine spells and know all the spells on their list. Warlock 4/Spirit Shaman 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Eldritch Nexus 13 gets dark invocations, and lots of free spellcasting for just two Warlock caster levels (that's 1 invocation and 1d6 EB, I think.) Skills: Concentration 6, Knowledge (arcane) 9, Knowledge (religion) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4, Spellcraft 9, UMD 4. Better, now the class isn't early entry. Domain Spells: Magic – The appropriate spells are added to the Eldritch Nexus's known spells. He can freely decide to place any of them in his arcane or divine "Spells-Known" list. The Eldritch Nexus gains no extra slots to prepare domain spells, but does gain the domain's granted power with a twist. For the purpose of using scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation, use 1/2 the accumulated levels of the classes that opened the door to become an Eldritch Nexus plus this PrC's class level (e.g. at least level 7 at Eldritch Nexus level 4th). Unwieldy. Just say "half your highest caster level" rather than half cleric level. Advanced Learning – The Eldritch Nexus further increases his spells' repertoire. Using this class feature, he can select a single spell to add to his spells known. The spell can be either arcane or divine and is added to the appropriate "Spells-Known" list. The Eldritch Nexus may normally select spells that belong to the original spell-list (either arcane or divine). Should he wish to add a spell from a different list or a new spell altogether, the DM must decide if it's at all possible, which list could accommodate the requested spell and resolve the level differences (+0 is also acceptable). The DM could decide, for instance, that Ironwood could be learned as 7th level divine spell or 8th level arcane spell. DM FIAT IS NOT BALANCE. We threw out neccessary houserules when we switched to 3e. RAW Balance, not Rule 0 Balance, is what gameplay design is all about (This ensures all games are on a level playing ground, and players under loose DMs are treated as fair as strict DMs). Try "Only on the Sor/Wiz list / Cleric List" instead. Or use the rules for Eclectic Learning (PHBII, I believe) and reduce the amount of times they get this ability. Please.
StevenO 09-13-07, 01:37 PM	THREE FULL "CASTING" PROGRESSIONS!!! This was bad enough when you only advanced the invocation levels and effectively one spellcasting progression drawing from two lists but offering full casting for both casting types is crazy. Ok, you don't get to start doing that until you've given up four levels instead of the typical three and your skills and feats may be spoken for but your still going 16/16/16 in the end. Even without ANY special abilities (the Mystic Theurge model) triple casting is incredibly strong. In direct comparison to the MT you're stipping an early caster level from restricted caster types but you're advancing them further than is normaly possible; as noted in thread #2 the MT can end with a 15/15 split but this ends 16/16 which is already better but then adds 16 levels of invocations. When you make changes please note them in the original post. I though this class, while confusing, was perhaps an interesting idea mechanically when first presented but now looks completely overpowered.
forsaken1111 09-13-07, 04:27 PM	Love how people make these unbalanced triple threat prestige classes. Do you actually have a DM who would allow this?
nonsi 09-14-07, 01:14 AM	What? Dragonscape? Woops:D I meant Dungeonscap, of course. Sigh. Not this again. Beguiler/Warmage/Dread Necromancer 1 knows loads of arcane spells. Spirit Shamans spontaineously cast divine spells and know all the spells on their list. Warlock 4/Spirit Shaman 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Eldritch Nexus 13 gets dark invocations, and lots of free spellcasting for just two Warlock caster levels (that's 1 invocation and 1d6 EB, I think.) Ok ok, guess the [+3 base modifier to all saves] is needed afterall to plug this leak. Unwieldy. Just say "half your highest caster level" rather than half cleric level. Will do. Try "Only on the Sor/Wiz list / Cleric List" instead. Or use the rules for Eclectic Learning (PHBII, I believe) and reduce the amount of times they get this ability. Please. I'll figure thing out soon.
nonsi 09-14-07, 02:57 AM	THREE FULL "CASTING" PROGRESSIONS!!! This was bad enough when you only advanced the invocation levels and effectively one spellcasting progression drawing from two lists but offering full casting for both casting types is crazy. Make a level by level comparison (given my recent post regarding saves) and you'll see that both Eldritch Disciple and Eldritch Theurge come out more powerful. I'll even prove it to you. Choose a level and build the best Eldritch Nexus you can. I, in return will build the best Eldritch Disciple and Eldritch Theurge I can and wi'll see which build comes on top. You'll choose the ability scores according to any point buy you wish and each of us will distribute them freely. Ok, you don't get to start doing that until you've given up four levels instead of the typical three and your skills and feats may be spoken for And that's a major issue on the power meter. A high level Wizard / Cleric / Druid fully packed with metamagic is a killer. but your still going 16/16/16 in the end. Yes. After trailing behing bigtime all the way to the top. Compared to a Wizard/Cleric/Druid, the Eldritch Nexus is 5 levels behing in reaching any spell-level starting with 2nd level. Eldritch blast is already week for the blaster role. Taking an extre 2d6 downfall is crucial. And gaining just 1 dark invocation just doesn't cut it. Even without ANY special abilities (the Mystic Theurge model) triple casting is incredibly strong. The Mystic Theurge's main purpose is filling the gap for the Arcane Hierophant to level 21. If you're power scouting, take a straight Cleric and go for my build (with the proppor rearrangement of levels to qualify for the Contemplative at 10 HD). That's a full scale cleric with crapload of addons. as noted in thread #2 the MT can end with a 15/15 split but this ends 16/16 which is already better but then adds 16 levels of invocations. That's 17 / 17 for Wiz / Cle or Wiz /Dru.......... with all feats available (and as I said, go Arcane Hierophant or take my Cleric build)
Khatoblepas 09-14-07, 10:52 AM	Ok ok, guess the [+3 base modifier to all saves] is needed afterall to plug this leak. NO. Seriously, it's just becoming a ridiculous charade of "Let's see how we can severely restrict entry to this class so you have to take Favored Soul 2/Sorcerer 2/Warlock 2 without saying it" Stop doing that! Stop it! Bad! The thing about designing prestige classes is that you can't expect all people to have all the splatbooks you're requiring them to have. What if they don't want to have favored soul casting? What if they want to use the Spirit Shaman, or even CLERIC? What if they don't want to use Sorcerer? What if they don't have Complete Divine, but do have Complete Arcane? As it stands, this prestige class is only half viable for Warlock 2/Favored Soul 2/Sorcerer 2. A single entry?! Once again, really bad karma, man. It's a stupid idea in the first place, it's got no attraction, it's fixed in favor of a single entry point, and, well, Beh. And that's a major issue on the power meter. A high level Wizard / Cleric / Druid fully packed with metamagic is a killer. Technically, you only lose feat, as you gain two bonus feats to make up for it. Lose a feat, gain 8th level arcane and divine spells and dark invocations? Yes. After trailing behing bigtime all the way to the top. Compared to a Wizard/Cleric/Druid, the Eldritch Nexus is 5 levels behing in reaching any spell-level starting with 2nd level. As does the Druid 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 you keep rattling on about. 9th level spells at 20! Same difference! Eldritch blast is already week for the blaster role. Taking an extre 2d6 downfall is crucial. And gaining just 1 dark invocation just doesn't cut it. Someone taking an average of a 6 damage hit to their EB isn't going to care. Warlocks aren't blasters, the EB is merely their backup weapon. Their true strengths lie in their invocations. This would be the "batman's utility belt" theory. No big guns, but a spell for every occassion. The Mystic Theurge's main purpose is filling the gap for the Arcane Hierophant to level 21. If you're power scouting, take a straight Cleric and go for my build (with the proppor rearrangement of levels to qualify for the Contemplative at 10 HD). That's a full scale cleric with crapload of addons. Stop saying that! Yes, we know clerics are overpowered. Stop stating the obvious in a vain attempt to validate your point. "Nexus isn't overpowered because that cleric build is more powerful" is a strawman arguement. A mesh of cleric prestige classes is a mesh of cleric prestige classes. It isn't a single prestige class. By the way: Warlock 2/Bard 2/Spirit Shaman 2/Eldritch Nexus 5/Sublime Chord 1/Eldritch Nexus +8 9th level arcane spells, 8th level divine spells, 9 invocations up to Greater, 7d6 eldritch blast, and that's just Core + Completes + this. All for the cost of (effectively) 1 feat. Stop this madness now. You'll never be able to beat the system.
StevenO 09-14-07, 02:54 PM	Make a level by level comparison (given my recent post regarding saves) and you'll see that both Eldritch Disciple and Eldritch Theurge come out more powerful. I'll even prove it to you. Choose a level and build the best Eldritch Nexus you can. I, in return will build the best Eldritch Disciple and Eldritch Theurge I can and wi'll see which build comes on top. You'll choose the ability scores according to any point buy you wish and each of us will distribute them freely. I'll leave it to others to break this class while all you'd need to do is look at the character op boards to find a powerful ED or ET. I've even mentioned a powerful ED build of Warlock8/Dragonslayer1/Ur-Priest2/ED9 as a powerful build. I know it isn't hard to go divine heavy with the ED but how does this EN compare with the ET at levels 16+ (after finishing ET). Just looking at casting abilities the ET has a slightly higher level at 16th with a 13/13 split while your EN is 12/12 with another 12 so I guess those 12 levels of divine casting don't make up for two levels of the others; of course going above that the ET is stuck improving one side or the other while the EN continues improving all three such that the ET can be 17/13 at 20th while the is a level behind the max casting type but has the other TWO types at 16 as well. In the "middle" levels the EN only trails the ET's casting abilities by one level but pulls along a third casting ability that is also at that power. The Mystic Theurge's main purpose is filling the gap for the Arcane Hierophant to level 21. That's funny, I though the main purpose of the Mystic Theurge was to make a multiclass cleric/arcane caster possible. You may think it is terribly weak but some DMs think it is strong with less than 2/3 the abilities the EN has. Back to your prereqs. Requiring +3 All Saves doesn't do much, one level of Favored Soul gets +2 for everything but EVERY class can add another +1 to all saves with three levels. With the abilities your free Magic Domain is above what domains normally do in 3.5. Back in 3.0 a domain added all of its spells to your spells known for one class (default a divine casting class otherwise an arcane class) but 3.5 just puts them on your class list where they must still be picked up normally. I see your twist on the Domain's granted power as dramatically increasing your ability to use those items; effectively you are taking [your character level -4 (for the non-arcane prereqs.)] x 1.5 because your other caster levels will probably be the same as your arcane casting level.
nonsi 09-14-07, 06:07 PM	NO. Seriously, it's just becoming a ridiculous charade of "Let's see how we can severely restrict entry to this class so you have to take Favored Soul 2/Sorcerer 2/Warlock 2 without saying it" Not in the least. The attempt was merely to force 2nd+ level arcane / 2nd+ level divine / 2nd+ level invoker. The thing about designing prestige classes is that you can't expect all people to have all the splatbooks you're requiring them to have. This wasn't the intention either. The referencing was just for the feedbacks. Once (if) thing are set, full description will come along. What if they don't want to have favored soul casting? What if they want to use the Spirit Shaman, or even CLERIC? Irrelevant example. The whole concept is being spontaneous. Anyway, I'm not entirely sure the Spirit Shaman can qualify as spontaneous, because of the need for retrieving, but Dread Necromancer and the Beguiler most certainly are. Don't have an appropriate class you like thematically ? invent one. It's not more radical than inventing a PrC. As it stands, this prestige class is only half viable for Warlock 2/Favored Soul 2/Sorcerer 2. A single entry?! Once again, really bad karma, man. It's a stupid idea in the first place, it's got no attraction, it's fixed in favor of a single entry point, and, well, Beh. No. It just means that a certain build will be the most rewarding with the currently available base classes (same goes for most Bard PrCs). I mean, the Sorcerer gains nothing BUT spells after 1st' level and it has access to practically the entire arcane list (save maybe the artificer & archivist of which I'm not familiar) Technically, you only lose feat, as you gain two bonus feats to make up for it. Lose a feat, gain 8th level arcane and divine spells and dark invocations? So taking away the bonus feats, granting Advanced Learning at levels 4 / 8 / 12 and pushing Zone of Magical Splendor to level 14 will balance it up in your view (or is it just an extra rant clause) ? As does the Druid 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 you keep rattling on about. 9th level spells at 20! Same difference! We'll check the power meter whenever you feel like it. This would be the "batman's utility belt" theory. No big guns, but a spell for every occassion. And what's morally broken with that goal ? Just immagine what a Rogue with the Dungeonscape variant ("flanker") and meximized INT score could be like (skill mastery anyone?) - the grandfather of all Swiss army knifes. Now add the magical items to go along with his maximized UMD. "Nexus isn't overpowered because that cleric build is more powerful" is a strawman arguement. Call it what you want. It's still a viable claim, due to the simple fact that it's true. That cleric build is more powerful. Way more powerful. A mesh of cleric prestige classes is a mesh of cleric prestige classes. It isn't a single prestige class. What's the difference, if this one peaks at level 20 (at optimum build) anyway ? Why should PrCs-combo be more reasonable for raw power than a single well-chosen one, provided there was one (and just above this entry is a great example for and ED built with the Ur-Priest to show how you go around the obstacles). Warlock 2/Bard 2/Spirit Shaman 2/Eldritch Nexus 5/Sublime Chord 1/Eldritch Nexus +8 Again, I'm not sure the Spirit Shaman could qualify, since it has to retrieve in order to guarantee access to a randomly chosen spell. 9th level arcane spells, 8th level divine spells, 9 invocations up to Greater, 7d6 eldritch blast, and that's just Core + Completes + this. All for the cost of (effectively) 1 feat. Stop this madness now. You'll never be able to beat the system. Don't look at me. I never said it was a good idea introducing PrCs with a spell-level per level progression. You don't need the EN to break the game with them. Now regarding beating the system............ The whole concept behind PrCs is gaining the proper training and experience required to grasp the principles of getting there. I don't think that a certain race's innate magical boost to effects qualifies under this concept (otherwise it's no different than letting the DM's judgement put the boundries). Moreover, if I do manage to get this 2/2/2 requirement through, than I believe that any base class in any official material that grants a spell-level with each odd level (as a spontaneous caster) would have a somewhat inferior list and that spells are only 1/2 of what makes it interesting (e.g. Spirit Shaman, which is still under evaluation to qualify). Anyway, I think I finally came up with a possible requirement that would remove the need for the saves requirement's (the others will remain for thematic reasons and to tone down the power abuse potential). I even think I've seen it (at least part of it) somewhere before, but I'm not sure. Spellcasting background (alternative to the currently given): gained at least 2 levels of spontaneous arcane spellcaster being able to cast 1st level arcane spells and at least 2 levels of spontaneous divine spellcaster being able to cast 1st level divine spells. Now any spontaneous divine/arcane caster can qualify after 2nd level or higher - without discrimination.
Khatoblepas 09-14-07, 06:44 PM	Irrelevant example. The whole concept is being spontaneous. Anyway, I'm not entirely sure the Spirit Shaman can qualify as spontaneous, because of the need for retrieving, but Dread Necromancer and the Beguiler most certainly are. Don't have an appropriate class you like thematically ? invent one. It's not more radical than inventing a PrC. A spirit shaman casts divine spells from the druid spell list. She can cast any spell she has retrieved, much like a bard or sorcerer can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. Is that spontaineous enough for you? Also, yes it is. Creating a base class is more work than creating a prestige class, as it needs to be balanced over 20 levels, and be unique enough that it doesn't step on the toes of other classes (same goes with prestige classes, though - right now you step on toes of ET and ED at the same time). So taking away the bonus feats, granting Advanced Learning at levels 4 / 8 / 12 and pushing Zone of Magical Splendor to level 14 will balance it up in your view (or is it just an extra rant clause) ? No, it's just that you said that the lack of feats was what made this class balanced compared to straight full caster with metamagic feats. This wasn't the intention either. The referencing was just for the feedbacks. Once (if) thing are set, full description will come along. I meant the fact that there are no spontaineous divine casters in core. Anyway, I think I finally came up with a possible requirement that would remove the need for the saves requirement's (the others will remain for thematic reasons and to tone down the power abuse potential). I even think I've seen it (at least part of it) somewhere before, but I'm not sure. Spellcasting background (alternative to the currently given): gained at least 2 levels of spontaneous arcane spellcaster being able to cast 1st level arcane spells and at least 2 levels of spontaneous divine spellcaster being able to cast 1st level divine spells. Now any spontaineous divine/arcane caster can qualify after 2nd level or higher - without discrimination. No. Not this again. You do not make prerequisites based on class levels. I've already told you this, the DMG tells you this, everything tells you it. No class levels. And don't say anything about the Blighter, as the class prereqs were pretty much ported directly from 3.0 - partly the reason why it sucks. Once again, no class levels. It's about as big a taboo as ability scores as prereqs. Just wondering, though - how many prestige classes have you made? How long have you been playing 3.5? Do you have the DMG? I'm curious.
nonsi 09-14-07, 07:24 PM	Is that spontaineous enough for you? "much like"... and yet, the retrieving part means partial access and not free access. I get the feeling it's mostly a matter of personal taste. Also, yes it is. Creating a base class is more work than creating a prestige class, as it needs to be balanced over 20 levels, and be unique enough that it doesn't step on the toes of other classes (same goes with prestige classes, though - right now you step on toes of ET and ED at the same time). Big deal. I too can go for the "never heard of them" routine. The core (base (yes/no)) classes are no where near balanced against one another. If my creation is underpowered compared to some other builds, I don't see the problem. No, it's just that you said that the lack of feats was what made this class balanced compared to straight full caster with metamagic feats. So what you're basically saying is that no matter how far down the power curve it would trail and how fool proof I can make it, you'd still consider it broken ? I meant the fact that there are no spontaineous divine casters in core. Not my fault they didn't make them. These things are written by human beings prone to mistakes and under time & budget restrictions. you can't have everything core - that's what the supplements are all about. No. Not this again. You do not make prerequisites based on class levels. I've already told you this, the DMG tells you this, everything tells you it. No class levels. And don't say anything about the Blighter, as the class prereqs were pretty much ported directly from 3.0 - partly the reason why it sucks. Once again, no class levels. It's about as big a taboo as ability scores as prereqs. 1. Two levels background of being able to do <something> is quite different than saying "level X of class type Y", since the requirement doesn't ask at which level that <something> is gained. 2. Plese show me where is it written RAW "No class levels" (which is in any case not exactly what I suggested). Just wondering, though - how many prestige classes have you made? I've made some, but not too many. Never had to deal with so many samples of brokenness till now though. How long have you been playing 3.5? Not too long, but not too little either. Do you have the DMG? I'm curious. Yup.
Khatoblepas 09-14-07, 08:53 PM	I give up. There's nothing more I can say without repeating myself, or wording it terribly wrong. I just can't think of any way this can be balanced. Dual casters are on the knife edge of balance. THe more stuff you add, the moreso it becomes.
StevenO 09-14-07, 11:21 PM	Call it what you want. It's still a viable claim, due to the simple fact that it's true. That cleric build is more powerful. Way more powerful. Trying to build all classes and character up to be at the same level of maximum power is unwise. Powercreep, as it is known, has been known to kill games and alienate many. The worst thing about finding a very strong build and then having to get EVERY other character concept to that power level is that they are all a little different. One persons idea of "strongest" isn't always anothers so they keep on tweeking their weaker character to match the preceived strength of another character who sees the first character as strong thus creating an upward spiral. If you want to make classes balanced you need to work towards the middle which may actually mean cutting down some of the "power" builds. I give up. There's nothing more I can say without repeating myself, or wording it terribly wrong. I just can't think of any way this can be balanced. Dual casters are on the knife edge of balance. THe more stuff you add, the moreso it becomes. I'm really begining to agree with this statement. I'd guess many other potential poster have been scared away by the two previous attempts as this class. While the earliest version may have had a little support it was also the most confusing but with this triple caster I don't think you'll find much support outside of power gamers and munchkins looking for a potential class to abuse. Oh, and if you are still looking, requiring a WILL +9 may be one of the only way to get three casting classes at two levels each to prior to 7th level. If you must have Warlock 2/Sorcerer2/Favored Soul2 to enter your PrC at 7th level you shoul probably use these as part of your prereqs. WILL +9 Able to spontaneously cast arcane and divine spells. Use Invocations; Detect Magic at will That still lets a Warlock6/Sor1/FS1 meet those requirements.
forsaken1111 09-14-07, 11:44 PM	I still don't understand what possible justification you can make for full progression of 3 class's casting abilities. Not only that but there is only ONE build which I know of that can qualify for this class, that alone makes it completely useless to about 99% of the people who play dnd because they don't use that specific build. You have picked 3 subpar classes and made a prestige class which advances them all. You then picked some good abilities from some other prestige classes and added them in, making an already overpowered triple-threat full caster progression class even better. By comparison look at the Cerebremancer. It progresses arcane and psionics, but has no abilities. How much does your class outdo that one? Granted Cerebremancer is low on the power scale, but its still an okay class for some builds. Yours is just useless for most, and overpowered for the one guy who can take it.