Eldritch theurge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eldritch theurge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pharune
10-12-07, 10:22 PM I was wondering if this is a good prestige class i think it looks great but wanted to know how it actually works out in a game.
StevenO
10-13-07, 12:02 AM I like the Eldritch Disciple a little better but the Theurge can work. As the Theurge requires at least three levels in both classes it does lag a bit behind single class characters in term of maximum power. I don't think the Warlock is hurt by this as much as the cleric in a Mystic Theurge because while you give up some of your maximum potential you still retain all your daily abilities.

My instinct is that the class works best if you figure on using one side as offense and the other side primarily as support.
rampant
10-14-07, 03:36 AM Well that doesn't really work though, to maximize the abilities of the eldritch theurge you need attack powers from both sides. As for power, it's difficult to argue with an eldritch chain and a fireball chaser, or the ability to hellrime a lightning bolt. The key is to pick spells and invocations that will work with blending abilities the class grants, For example Fireball is an excellent spell for an E.T. because it allows you drop a blast on an entire formation, while still using the eldritch blast to get in some more damage on the leader, rahter than having to choose between smacking the group or doing something extra nasty to the boss baddie.
Jaxgaret
10-14-07, 04:22 AM I like the Eldritch Disciple a little better but the Theurge can work.

This basically sums it up.

All of the Theurge classes - Eldritch Theurge, Mystic Theurge, etc. - are really not too great in practice, as you are utilizing abilities that are balanced for well below your character level. The Eldritch Theurge can be a decent support character, and is particularly good if you have lots of encounters per day.

The Eldritch Disciple OTOH is IMO a very powerful PrC. Almost too powerful.
rampant
10-14-07, 12:09 PM What's OTOH mean?
StevenO
10-14-07, 02:30 PM On The Other Hand
LSMFT
10-15-07, 12:13 PM I'm playing a Eldritch Theurge now. Level 13. (For the record, it started at level 12, so I don't know that I'd advise anyone to work their way up to this from low levels.)

Basically, what I did was start with the concept of a bard/sublime cord. You can meet the spell-casting requirements for the Cord at level 7, but can't get into the PrC until after 10. Three-levels begging for something interesting.

I chose warlock. Anyway, the class now is a Bard4/warlock3/Sublime Cord1/Eldritch Theurge5.

I use Invocations as a level 8 warlock, and these are primarily buffs like Devil's Sight, See the Unseen, Beguiling Influence, but I also have Beshadowed Blast. With my spellcasting, I'm short some 3rd-level spells, but otherwise I'm casting the same as any other Cord when it comes to spells at levels 4 and better,

Most of my spells are Enchantments, and I use Beshadowed Blast as sort of a back-up. If they save, against Puppeteer, they could still be blind for a round.

I might be gushing a little. This character is just very fun.

Anyway, here's a fun little trick with the Spellweave:

We were facing multiple opponents. Everyone else was on the line, between me and the bad guys.

I applied Love's Lament (Nausea and Wis damage) to my e-blast using Spellweave.

I shot into melee (-4 but it's a ranged touch-attack) and hit an opponent on one side of the battlefield. I then directed the Love’s Lament cone from his square down the front line, hitting all the bad guys and not catching any of my allies in the process.

It worked really really well. I also like using Spellweave Blast with Clouds of Bewilderment. My e-blast damage is low, but as long as I was planning on casting that spell anyway, I might as well do some damage at the same time. Hit them with a blast for 8d6, then nauseate them for a couple rounds.
Jaxgaret
10-15-07, 03:23 PM I'm playing a Eldritch Theurge now. Level 13. (For the record, it started at level 12, so I don't know that I'd advise anyone to work their way up to this from low levels.)

Basically, what I did was start with the concept of a bard/sublime cord. You can meet the spell-casting requirements for the Cord at level 7, but can't get into the PrC until after 10. Three-levels begging for something interesting.

I chose warlock. Anyway, the class now is a Bard4/warlock3/Sublime Cord1/Eldritch Theurge5.

You do mean Bard4/Warlock3/EldritchTheurge3/SublimeChord1/EldritchTheurge2 right?

The second level of Sublime Chord might still be worth taking for your character. Song of Arcane Power is sweet.
LSMFT
10-15-07, 04:15 PM Yeah, I was just putting the total levels and not the order in which they were taken necessarily.

I'd like to get that second-level eventually, you can never have too high a caster-level, but in the short run, the additional warlock invocations are too tempting, and the final ability of Eldritch Theurge, Spellreach Blast, is calling me as well. (Otto's Irresistible Dance.) Plus, while the invocations are a low caster-level, my actual spells are fine: Arcane Mastery, Fey Heritage, Ring of Arcane Might, Practiced Spellcaster makes me pretty good versus things at my level, and I have the variant Lore Song, from Dungeonscape I think, which will let me add +4 a limited number of times per day. I do not fear SR.

Any way, based on my experience, Eldritch Theurge is an excellent way to go for Sublime Cords. With full-casters, like wizards or sorcerers, it might also be fun, but the loss of three levels of casting is too much of a bugbear for me.
Jaxgaret
10-15-07, 06:36 PM Any way, based on my experience, Eldritch Theurge is an excellent way to go for Sublime Cords.

Yeah, that was definitely a good catch. I really like that build. I always look for good ways to spend those three levels in between Bard7 (or Bard6/LT1) and SC10. There's so many options! :)
StevenO
10-15-07, 08:03 PM Any of the Theurge type classes LOVE the PrCs with independant casting and high level spells. Just looking at the classes themself a Warlock/ Dragonslayer/ Ur-Priest/ Eldtrich Disciple is pretty crazy with an invocation using level of 18 and all ten levels or Ur-Priest casting with its 9th level spells.
Jaxgaret
10-15-07, 08:35 PM Any of the Theurge type classes LOVE the PrCs with independant casting and high level spells.

IIRC there are only three of those that exist currently that progress to 9th level spellcasting: the Ur-Priest, Apostle of Peace, and Sublime Chord.

Are there any others that I'm missing?
rampant
10-16-07, 02:23 AM Beholder mage, but the requirements are a tad strict.
bkdubs123
10-16-07, 04:35 AM Um, there's another one that's stupidly good... Divine Crusader. Its Ur-Priest only a good guy.

There's undoubtadly a few more that we've missed.
Jaxgaret
10-17-07, 01:42 AM Wow, I totally missed the Divine Crusader in CDiv. For some reason I had thought it was an update of a 3.0 class that had very limited spellcasting, without ever looking at it. It does have an extremely limited repertoire of spells, though.

The Beholder Mage does have somewhat strict requirements :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pharune 10-12-07, 10:22 PM	I was wondering if this is a good prestige class i think it looks great but wanted to know how it actually works out in a game.
StevenO 10-13-07, 12:02 AM	I like the Eldritch Disciple a little better but the Theurge can work. As the Theurge requires at least three levels in both classes it does lag a bit behind single class characters in term of maximum power. I don't think the Warlock is hurt by this as much as the cleric in a Mystic Theurge because while you give up some of your maximum potential you still retain all your daily abilities. My instinct is that the class works best if you figure on using one side as offense and the other side primarily as support.
rampant 10-14-07, 03:36 AM	Well that doesn't really work though, to maximize the abilities of the eldritch theurge you need attack powers from both sides. As for power, it's difficult to argue with an eldritch chain and a fireball chaser, or the ability to hellrime a lightning bolt. The key is to pick spells and invocations that will work with blending abilities the class grants, For example Fireball is an excellent spell for an E.T. because it allows you drop a blast on an entire formation, while still using the eldritch blast to get in some more damage on the leader, rahter than having to choose between smacking the group or doing something extra nasty to the boss baddie.
Jaxgaret 10-14-07, 04:22 AM	I like the Eldritch Disciple a little better but the Theurge can work. This basically sums it up. All of the Theurge classes - Eldritch Theurge, Mystic Theurge, etc. - are really not too great in practice, as you are utilizing abilities that are balanced for well below your character level. The Eldritch Theurge can be a decent support character, and is particularly good if you have lots of encounters per day. The Eldritch Disciple OTOH is IMO a very powerful PrC. Almost too powerful.
rampant 10-14-07, 12:09 PM	What's OTOH mean?
StevenO 10-14-07, 02:30 PM	On The Other Hand
LSMFT 10-15-07, 12:13 PM	I'm playing a Eldritch Theurge now. Level 13. (For the record, it started at level 12, so I don't know that I'd advise anyone to work their way up to this from low levels.) Basically, what I did was start with the concept of a bard/sublime cord. You can meet the spell-casting requirements for the Cord at level 7, but can't get into the PrC until after 10. Three-levels begging for something interesting. I chose warlock. Anyway, the class now is a Bard4/warlock3/Sublime Cord1/Eldritch Theurge5. I use Invocations as a level 8 warlock, and these are primarily buffs like Devil's Sight, See the Unseen, Beguiling Influence, but I also have Beshadowed Blast. With my spellcasting, I'm short some 3rd-level spells, but otherwise I'm casting the same as any other Cord when it comes to spells at levels 4 and better, Most of my spells are Enchantments, and I use Beshadowed Blast as sort of a back-up. If they save, against Puppeteer, they could still be blind for a round. I might be gushing a little. This character is just very fun. Anyway, here's a fun little trick with the Spellweave: We were facing multiple opponents. Everyone else was on the line, between me and the bad guys. I applied Love's Lament (Nausea and Wis damage) to my e-blast using Spellweave. I shot into melee (-4 but it's a ranged touch-attack) and hit an opponent on one side of the battlefield. I then directed the Love’s Lament cone from his square down the front line, hitting all the bad guys and not catching any of my allies in the process. It worked really really well. I also like using Spellweave Blast with Clouds of Bewilderment. My e-blast damage is low, but as long as I was planning on casting that spell anyway, I might as well do some damage at the same time. Hit them with a blast for 8d6, then nauseate them for a couple rounds.
Jaxgaret 10-15-07, 03:23 PM	I'm playing a Eldritch Theurge now. Level 13. (For the record, it started at level 12, so I don't know that I'd advise anyone to work their way up to this from low levels.) Basically, what I did was start with the concept of a bard/sublime cord. You can meet the spell-casting requirements for the Cord at level 7, but can't get into the PrC until after 10. Three-levels begging for something interesting. I chose warlock. Anyway, the class now is a Bard4/warlock3/Sublime Cord1/Eldritch Theurge5. You do mean Bard4/Warlock3/EldritchTheurge3/SublimeChord1/EldritchTheurge2 right? The second level of Sublime Chord might still be worth taking for your character. Song of Arcane Power is sweet.
LSMFT 10-15-07, 04:15 PM	Yeah, I was just putting the total levels and not the order in which they were taken necessarily. I'd like to get that second-level eventually, you can never have too high a caster-level, but in the short run, the additional warlock invocations are too tempting, and the final ability of Eldritch Theurge, Spellreach Blast, is calling me as well. (Otto's Irresistible Dance.) Plus, while the invocations are a low caster-level, my actual spells are fine: Arcane Mastery, Fey Heritage, Ring of Arcane Might, Practiced Spellcaster makes me pretty good versus things at my level, and I have the variant Lore Song, from Dungeonscape I think, which will let me add +4 a limited number of times per day. I do not fear SR. Any way, based on my experience, Eldritch Theurge is an excellent way to go for Sublime Cords. With full-casters, like wizards or sorcerers, it might also be fun, but the loss of three levels of casting is too much of a bugbear for me.
Jaxgaret 10-15-07, 06:36 PM	Any way, based on my experience, Eldritch Theurge is an excellent way to go for Sublime Cords. Yeah, that was definitely a good catch. I really like that build. I always look for good ways to spend those three levels in between Bard7 (or Bard6/LT1) and SC10. There's so many options! :)
StevenO 10-15-07, 08:03 PM	Any of the Theurge type classes LOVE the PrCs with independant casting and high level spells. Just looking at the classes themself a Warlock/ Dragonslayer/ Ur-Priest/ Eldtrich Disciple is pretty crazy with an invocation using level of 18 and all ten levels or Ur-Priest casting with its 9th level spells.
Jaxgaret 10-15-07, 08:35 PM	Any of the Theurge type classes LOVE the PrCs with independant casting and high level spells. IIRC there are only three of those that exist currently that progress to 9th level spellcasting: the Ur-Priest, Apostle of Peace, and Sublime Chord. Are there any others that I'm missing?
rampant 10-16-07, 02:23 AM	Beholder mage, but the requirements are a tad strict.
bkdubs123 10-16-07, 04:35 AM	Um, there's another one that's stupidly good... Divine Crusader. Its Ur-Priest only a good guy. There's undoubtadly a few more that we've missed.
Jaxgaret 10-17-07, 01:42 AM	Wow, I totally missed the Divine Crusader in CDiv. For some reason I had thought it was an update of a 3.0 class that had very limited spellcasting, without ever looking at it. It does have an extremely limited repertoire of spells, though. The Beholder Mage does have somewhat strict requirements :)