Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Saliard 05-21-07, 11:04 AM	Hi all !! This is my little problem... Imagine an elemental savant with enough experience to become archmage. What if he choose "mastery of elements" as high arcana ability ? Is he able to cast any energy spell (nullifying the ES restriction) ? or is the mastery of elements forbidden to ES ? Thanks in advance for your advice. Regards, Saliard...
Selgard 05-21-07, 11:18 AM	I am inclined to say that taking the Mastery wouldn't nullify anything. But if you have a restriction as to what elements you can cast, Mastery would either 1) make it easier. or 2) overlap with it, so that you actually waste one of your Archmage abilities by taking it. (Am not with a book atm, and can't remember if the Savant -forces- you to only cast with that element, or whether it simply says if it isn't of your element, then you can't cast it)
Wollenator 05-21-07, 12:23 PM	I dont know the rules about that, but if I would be DM, I wont allow that on the first view, because Elemental Savant is a specialist in one element and elemental mastery from Archmage says that you have mastered all elements, which is simply not true for the levels before becoming archmage, because you tried to master one element. Ask your DM
Ainamacar 05-21-07, 12:45 PM	The archmage can alter an arcane spell when cast so that it utilizes a different element from the one it normally uses. This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor. The spell’s casting time is unaffected. The caster decides whether to alter the spell’s energy type and chooses the new energy type when he begins casting. This ability costs one 8th-level spell slot. When the savant casts a spell that normally deals energy damage, its energy descriptor changes to the savant’s chosen energy type, and it deals damage of that energy type instead of its normal energy type. It isn't clear which of these would override the other. However, I think the stronger case could be made that Elemental Specialty does. 1. If you use Mastery of Elements to change the type of energy dealt, it seems as though Elemental Specialty would immediately kick-in again to change it back to your chosen element type. Archmage says you choose what element type you want to cast when you begin casting, and so it is dubious whether you could keep "switching" back to a non-specialty energy type and actually end up casting the spell that way. In other words, I think the rules text suggests an inherent drift to using your specialty energy, despite Mastery of Elements. 2. From a flavor or design standpoint, the elemental savant is all about using that single type of energy. The archmage simply does not have this focus, and so I would generally grant rules-primacy to the Elemental Savant on such matters, all other things being equal. This is by no means definitive. In a high-powered or "anything goes" style of play, you might readily decide in the opposite direction.
El_Machinae 05-22-07, 07:34 AM	It should allow all elemental types. Remember that there is a progression of skills and abilities. Becoming a Master of Elements should expand your previous horizons.
runestar 05-22-07, 10:25 AM	Judging by the order in which the abilities are applied (mastery of elements applies at the time you start to cast said spell, ES is a continuous effect which applies all the time, from the moment you know said spell to the instance when you finish casting it and it leaves your hands), I would say that the ES limitation specifically prevails over any similar option (such as born of 3 thunders etc).:) Hey, it is like adjudicating M:TG timing issues all over again...:embarrass :D
Fivefingers 05-22-07, 02:10 PM	I agree with the general idea of what's been explained so far: the restriction can't be overcomed. What's the point on gaining a weakness if you can avoid it with another prestige class? You become an elemental after all... On the other hand, I have another doubt about the Elemental Savant. As you've said, the Complete Arcane sais that at first level the ES replaces the descriptor of any spell that deals elemental energy damage with the character's chosen element. Then at 5th level it gains a DC bonus on any spell with the chosen element descriptor. Does that mean that you gain a DC bonus even with a Cone of Cold if you're a Fire ES because of the changed descriptor? Or does the DC bonus only affect the spells that naturally have the correct descriptor (Fireball been a Fire ES)?
war_m0nger 05-22-07, 03:26 PM	I agree with the general idea of what's been explained so far: the restriction can't be overcomed. What's the point on gaining a weakness if you can avoid it with another prestige class? You become an elemental after all... On the other hand, I have another doubt about the Elemental Savant. As you've said, the Complete Arcane sais that at first level the ES replaces the descriptor of any spell that deals elemental energy damage with the character's chosen element. Then at 5th level it gains a DC bonus on any spell with the chosen element descriptor. Does that mean that you gain a DC bonus even with a Cone of Cold if you're a Fire ES because of the changed descriptor? Or does the DC bonus only affect the spells that naturally have the correct descriptor (Fireball been a Fire ES)? I think it's the former. your cone of cold is now dealing fire damage, so you should get the DC bonus. Now here's my question: At level 10, when you become an elemental - does that mean you get the movement types associated with the elemental? (i.e. a lvl 5 sorc/lvl 10 ES with the Air Specialty can fly as his normal movement). Edit: Nevermind. It says that you do gain all of the movement types of a medium elemental of that type. Pretty cool.