Enchantment Wizard prestige? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Enchantment Wizard prestige? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
041391klr
07-18-07, 01:12 PM I just rolled up a nice little Human Wizard who is an Enchanter, and was wondering, are their any enchantment specific prestige classes out there? Official and homebrew are both appreciated. Thanks in advance :D
The_Unseen_Illusion
07-18-07, 09:52 PM I would also like to see a Enchantment PrC. The closest thing they have is the Mindbender, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Another I can think of is the Master Specialist, but seeing you have to be a specialized wizard, it has it's limitations
The_Shaman
07-19-07, 04:19 AM Master specialist (CMage) can be useful, imo, and iirc the Wild Soul (same) can eventually give you a boost to your enchantment spells.
xdahnx
07-19-07, 07:23 AM i'm gonna third the master specialist thing
you can start it after only 3 levels of wizard, and you get some nice bonuses; as an enchanter the enemy doesnt get a bonus to its charm will save because it's threatened.....nor does it get a save against being told to do something it wouldnt normally do....
SunTzuWarmaster
07-19-07, 07:37 AM Mindbender (Complete Arcane I believe).
Puca
07-19-07, 09:36 AM Mindbender is not worth more than one level. That one level is great, but after that you get little that a regular enchanter couldnt do already.

Ill third (or fourth?) Master Specialist: The prereqs are all stuff youd have anyway, and the Minor Esoterica that xdahnx mentioned is just too good for a wannabe controller to pass up.
Meep326
08-16-07, 03:23 AM God, you people are really touchy about yer casters, the Mindbender is great, at 10th level, you can have a total of 5 more 'cohorts' that don't gain levels. I'm joining a game in a couple weeks, and I'm definatly taking this class. So what if you lose five spell casting levels, you'll still get 7 or 8th level spells before epic, and you can use 9th level spells from scrolls if you really need to, but most of your power if comming from the beings you control.

Edit: The cohorts I mentioned, are permanent cohorts til they die or are replaced with stronger ones.
Puca
08-16-07, 01:03 PM God, you people are really touchy about yer casters,Yes, we are :)
the Mindbender is great, at 10th level, you can have a total of 5 more 'cohorts' that don't gain levels.No, its not.
A tenth-level mindbender is (minimum) character-level 15. He casts spells as a level 10. (or 11?)

A 15th level enchanter is casting spells at least two levels higher. And, Ill get ninth-level spells someday. Someday soon. Before you even get level-8 spells. :)

Regarding your "5 cohorts:" I assume that is with "Eternal Charm." Look at the duration of Charm Monster. It lasts for days. Over 2 weeks at level 15. I can renew it every day if I want. Its just not that hard to make it last "eternally." Plus, overlapping charms makes breaking them that much harder. And, Im not limited in either the number or the size of my minions. I also have Geas and Dominate Person in my repertoire. So do you, but youll never have Dominate Monster.

Edit: The cohorts I mentioned, are permanent cohorts til they die or are replaced with stronger ones.The effect can be broken by something like Break Enchantment.

Look at every thing a Mindbender can do, and there are lots of cool things there. But there is nothing (besides that great Telepathy) that a regular enchanter cant duplicate, and do so as a full caster.

If you lose four or five levels of casting, you better get something you wouldnt have been able to get otherwise, and the Mindbender doesnt deliver.
Shamgi
08-17-07, 02:47 AM So what would you do to improve it, then?

I'm playing a Mindbender personally, and enjoying the heck out of it(still and silent charms and dominates are always quite fun for causing chaos amoung your enemies) but I can see your point. So what would you do to make it better?
The_Shaman
08-17-07, 03:34 AM Less lost caster levels would be my choice, YMMV.
Shamgi
08-17-07, 04:08 AM I personally think that'd sort of kill the flavor of the class though, seems to me their intent was to drop casting for the sake of a bunch of enchantment focused special abilities. Personally, I'd give it some of the abilities that further it's mind controlling abilities. Maybe allow it's Eternal Charm and Dominate a chance to even pierce stuff like Mind Blank, or maybe expand it to even allow control of mindless creatures, ignoring some, like Undead.

Of course, I've been told my ideas for PrCs are usually terrible, so take that for what you will.
Puca
08-17-07, 03:28 PM Well, the easiest thing would be to grant more casting levels. I think in other threads Ive seen 8/2 and 7/3 suggested. Thos feel pretty good.

I would also have the first level not grant casting. Im not morally opposed to dipping, but this is pretty bad one, telepathy and full casting with only a few skills as prereqs? Too good.

Leaving the casting as is, like Shamgi suggested, Id grant some more special abilities. The esoterica from the enchanter Master Specialist would fit well, especially the minor esoterica. Stuff like that. Id also suggest bumping up the caster-level for enchantments you cast.

I love enchantment as a school, but it is one of the easiest to result in being totally screwed by saves, immunities, and SR, so I might look at bonuses there as well. Piercing defenses against enchantments/control like Shamgi suggested would be good.
Shamgi
08-17-07, 05:35 PM So, those are the three abilities to be considered.

The ability to ignore SR(Say, caster level is counted as five levels higher when attempting to pierce SR?)

The ability to ignore Enchantment immune effects(Give the Mindbender a SR like check where he has to beat the 11 + The caster level of whoever casted the spell?)

The ability to affect otherwise immune creatures(Vermin, Oozes and/or Plants no longer immune to mind affecting abilities used by the Mindbender?)

There's three ideas for unique abilities. Also, one could enlarge or simply remove the restriction on Large creatures for the special abilities.

Edit: How about something like this?

Total Control of the Mind(EX) - Having reached the peak of her skill, a Mindbender's enchantments begin to become much more powerful than any other wizards. The Mindbender retains control of any creature she has charmed even if they would be protected(such as by a circle of protection). In addition, when casting on an enemy who's has been given immunity to mind effects by a spell or item(such as Mind Blank) the Mindbender may make an enchantment based caster level check(DC = The level of the spell + the level of the caster). If they succeed, they may completely ignore the affects of that specific casting of the spell when using any enchantment based spell or ability(item abilities are considered suppressed for a full 24 hours against the mindbender only).

I say that plus the ability to use the Dominate spell on huge creatures would make up for the loss of caster levels, at least for a bit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
041391klr 07-18-07, 01:12 PM	I just rolled up a nice little Human Wizard who is an Enchanter, and was wondering, are their any enchantment specific prestige classes out there? Official and homebrew are both appreciated. Thanks in advance :D
The_Unseen_Illusion 07-18-07, 09:52 PM	I would also like to see a Enchantment PrC. The closest thing they have is the Mindbender, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Another I can think of is the Master Specialist, but seeing you have to be a specialized wizard, it has it's limitations
The_Shaman 07-19-07, 04:19 AM	Master specialist (CMage) can be useful, imo, and iirc the Wild Soul (same) can eventually give you a boost to your enchantment spells.
xdahnx 07-19-07, 07:23 AM	i'm gonna third the master specialist thing you can start it after only 3 levels of wizard, and you get some nice bonuses; as an enchanter the enemy doesnt get a bonus to its charm will save because it's threatened.....nor does it get a save against being told to do something it wouldnt normally do....
SunTzuWarmaster 07-19-07, 07:37 AM	Mindbender (Complete Arcane I believe).
Puca 07-19-07, 09:36 AM	Mindbender is not worth more than one level. That one level is great, but after that you get little that a regular enchanter couldnt do already. Ill third (or fourth?) Master Specialist: The prereqs are all stuff youd have anyway, and the Minor Esoterica that xdahnx mentioned is just too good for a wannabe controller to pass up.
Meep326 08-16-07, 03:23 AM	God, you people are really touchy about yer casters, the Mindbender is great, at 10th level, you can have a total of 5 more 'cohorts' that don't gain levels. I'm joining a game in a couple weeks, and I'm definatly taking this class. So what if you lose five spell casting levels, you'll still get 7 or 8th level spells before epic, and you can use 9th level spells from scrolls if you really need to, but most of your power if comming from the beings you control. Edit: The cohorts I mentioned, are permanent cohorts til they die or are replaced with stronger ones.
Puca 08-16-07, 01:03 PM	God, you people are really touchy about yer casters,Yes, we are :) the Mindbender is great, at 10th level, you can have a total of 5 more 'cohorts' that don't gain levels.No, its not. A tenth-level mindbender is (minimum) character-level 15. He casts spells as a level 10. (or 11?) A 15th level enchanter is casting spells at least two levels higher. And, Ill get ninth-level spells someday. Someday soon. Before you even get level-8 spells. :) Regarding your "5 cohorts:" I assume that is with "Eternal Charm." Look at the duration of Charm Monster. It lasts for days. Over 2 weeks at level 15. I can renew it every day if I want. Its just not that hard to make it last "eternally." Plus, overlapping charms makes breaking them that much harder. And, Im not limited in either the number or the size of my minions. I also have Geas and Dominate Person in my repertoire. So do you, but youll never have Dominate Monster. Edit: The cohorts I mentioned, are permanent cohorts til they die or are replaced with stronger ones.The effect can be broken by something like Break Enchantment. Look at every thing a Mindbender can do, and there are lots of cool things there. But there is nothing (besides that great Telepathy) that a regular enchanter cant duplicate, and do so as a full caster. If you lose four or five levels of casting, you better get something you wouldnt have been able to get otherwise, and the Mindbender doesnt deliver.
Shamgi 08-17-07, 02:47 AM	So what would you do to improve it, then? I'm playing a Mindbender personally, and enjoying the heck out of it(still and silent charms and dominates are always quite fun for causing chaos amoung your enemies) but I can see your point. So what would you do to make it better?
The_Shaman 08-17-07, 03:34 AM	Less lost caster levels would be my choice, YMMV.
Shamgi 08-17-07, 04:08 AM	I personally think that'd sort of kill the flavor of the class though, seems to me their intent was to drop casting for the sake of a bunch of enchantment focused special abilities. Personally, I'd give it some of the abilities that further it's mind controlling abilities. Maybe allow it's Eternal Charm and Dominate a chance to even pierce stuff like Mind Blank, or maybe expand it to even allow control of mindless creatures, ignoring some, like Undead. Of course, I've been told my ideas for PrCs are usually terrible, so take that for what you will.
Puca 08-17-07, 03:28 PM	Well, the easiest thing would be to grant more casting levels. I think in other threads Ive seen 8/2 and 7/3 suggested. Thos feel pretty good. I would also have the first level not grant casting. Im not morally opposed to dipping, but this is pretty bad one, telepathy and full casting with only a few skills as prereqs? Too good. Leaving the casting as is, like Shamgi suggested, Id grant some more special abilities. The esoterica from the enchanter Master Specialist would fit well, especially the minor esoterica. Stuff like that. Id also suggest bumping up the caster-level for enchantments you cast. I love enchantment as a school, but it is one of the easiest to result in being totally screwed by saves, immunities, and SR, so I might look at bonuses there as well. Piercing defenses against enchantments/control like Shamgi suggested would be good.
Shamgi 08-17-07, 05:35 PM	So, those are the three abilities to be considered. The ability to ignore SR(Say, caster level is counted as five levels higher when attempting to pierce SR?) The ability to ignore Enchantment immune effects(Give the Mindbender a SR like check where he has to beat the 11 + The caster level of whoever casted the spell?) The ability to affect otherwise immune creatures(Vermin, Oozes and/or Plants no longer immune to mind affecting abilities used by the Mindbender?) There's three ideas for unique abilities. Also, one could enlarge or simply remove the restriction on Large creatures for the special abilities. Edit: How about something like this? Total Control of the Mind(EX) - Having reached the peak of her skill, a Mindbender's enchantments begin to become much more powerful than any other wizards. The Mindbender retains control of any creature she has charmed even if they would be protected(such as by a circle of protection). In addition, when casting on an enemy who's has been given immunity to mind effects by a spell or item(such as Mind Blank) the Mindbender may make an enchantment based caster level check(DC = The level of the spell + the level of the caster). If they succeed, they may completely ignore the affects of that specific casting of the spell when using any enchantment based spell or ability(item abilities are considered suppressed for a full 24 hours against the mindbender only). I say that plus the ability to use the Dominate spell on huge creatures would make up for the loss of caster levels, at least for a bit.