Enlightened fist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Enlightened fist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
moebius2007
05-02-07, 02:58 PM Hello I am playing an enlightened fist character (complete arcane).

I have an argument with the GM over the arcane fist class feature, this allows you to "cast and deliver a touch spell as part of your full attack action".

I say this means i can deliver my spell with one of the attacks that have already hit thus delivering the normal attack damage plus the spell.

He says that I have to give up one attack and just do a touch attack and deliver the spell with no further damage.

What do you think? (the ideall would be that the character could choose what way to deliver the spell each time).

I have another question, if the feature works as a touch attack, could the character "touch" himself (or an ally) with one of the attacks and deliver a polymorph spell for example?

Ive looked through the Q&A and Ive even sent a Q to wizards on this issue to no avail, id be glad to know your oppinion (specially if supported by rules).
Tectorman
05-02-07, 03:10 PM As far as I know, Complete Arcane (yes, that very same book) says the following (ad-libbed) at the beginning of the section with all the new feats and skills and such: you can deliver a touch spell with an unarmed attack; if you beat the target's touch AC but not its full applicable AC, you deliver the spell and that's it; if you beat the target's full applicable AC (which would include its touch AC), you deal damage as normal for your unarmed attack and you deliver the spell.
blindcynic
05-02-07, 03:24 PM Hello,

In response to your questions I read the Enlightened fist and its special features over.
I think the key line is "She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any single unarmed strike attack she makes during the action"
So I interpret it like this: Sheris Liday, when flurrying has two attacks per round at +6/+6. She is fighting a 7th level goblin warrior and uses touch of fatigue. She announces that she is using her arcane fist ability to the DM. That she is flurrying and then says I will be using my arcane fist ability on my second attack. She misses her first attack and succeeds with the second. She rolls unarmed strike damage (as it was an unarmed strike) and delivers the spell as well.

See if the sentence read "She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any single unarmed strike attack she has made during the action." I think she could roll her attacks first, see which hit and then pick to release the spell with one that hit. It says "makes" though and to me, that makes it a declarative ability. You must tell the DM which attack you are using it on before rolling.

As for the damage, of course you deal unarmed strike damage on top of the spell on a successful unarmed strike attack! Read again "She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any unarmed strike attack she makes during the action"
Again simply by the wording: Unarmed strike means well...unarmed strike (see monk in PHB or equipment section both use the term unarmed strike) if it read unarmed attack instead of unarmed strike attack then it would mean simply the touch spell.
blindcynic
05-02-07, 03:26 PM Yes you could use the touch spell on yourself, but it would cost an attack either from your full attack action or as a standard action.
Patinho_Amarelo
05-02-07, 04:07 PM Tectorman already say all you need to know in this situation.
moebius2007
05-03-07, 08:49 AM First of all Thank you guys that solved almost all the troubles i had with it.

I would say that if an attack with the spell on missed the spell is not lost.For example he tried to deliver the spell with her first attack and missed, she would hold the charge in her hand so if she made another attack in that round with the same hand she would be able to deliver it, wouldnt she?
blindcynic
05-03-07, 12:15 PM Hi all,

I double checked Comp Arcane and Tectorman was right, to a degree. You can make an unarmed strike against a foe and release a touch spell however, if you miss with your unarmed strike then you cannot release the spell & must wait until your next action to either make an unarmed strike or touch attack. (You can't do both with one action)
moebius2007
05-03-07, 12:25 PM Yes I think so too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
moebius2007 05-02-07, 02:58 PM	Hello I am playing an enlightened fist character (complete arcane). I have an argument with the GM over the arcane fist class feature, this allows you to "cast and deliver a touch spell as part of your full attack action". I say this means i can deliver my spell with one of the attacks that have already hit thus delivering the normal attack damage plus the spell. He says that I have to give up one attack and just do a touch attack and deliver the spell with no further damage. What do you think? (the ideall would be that the character could choose what way to deliver the spell each time). I have another question, if the feature works as a touch attack, could the character "touch" himself (or an ally) with one of the attacks and deliver a polymorph spell for example? Ive looked through the Q&A and Ive even sent a Q to wizards on this issue to no avail, id be glad to know your oppinion (specially if supported by rules).
Tectorman 05-02-07, 03:10 PM	As far as I know, Complete Arcane (yes, that very same book) says the following (ad-libbed) at the beginning of the section with all the new feats and skills and such: you can deliver a touch spell with an unarmed attack; if you beat the target's touch AC but not its full applicable AC, you deliver the spell and that's it; if you beat the target's full applicable AC (which would include its touch AC), you deal damage as normal for your unarmed attack and you deliver the spell.
blindcynic 05-02-07, 03:24 PM	Hello, In response to your questions I read the Enlightened fist and its special features over. I think the key line is "She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any single unarmed strike attack she makes during the action" So I interpret it like this: Sheris Liday, when flurrying has two attacks per round at +6/+6. She is fighting a 7th level goblin warrior and uses touch of fatigue. She announces that she is using her arcane fist ability to the DM. That she is flurrying and then says I will be using my arcane fist ability on my second attack. She misses her first attack and succeeds with the second. She rolls unarmed strike damage (as it was an unarmed strike) and delivers the spell as well. See if the sentence read "She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any single unarmed strike attack she has made during the action." I think she could roll her attacks first, see which hit and then pick to release the spell with one that hit. It says "makes" though and to me, that makes it a declarative ability. You must tell the DM which attack you are using it on before rolling. As for the damage, of course you deal unarmed strike damage on top of the spell on a successful unarmed strike attack! Read again "She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any unarmed strike attack she makes during the action" Again simply by the wording: Unarmed strike means well...unarmed strike (see monk in PHB or equipment section both use the term unarmed strike) if it read unarmed attack instead of unarmed strike attack then it would mean simply the touch spell.
blindcynic 05-02-07, 03:26 PM	Yes you could use the touch spell on yourself, but it would cost an attack either from your full attack action or as a standard action.
Patinho_Amarelo 05-02-07, 04:07 PM	Tectorman already say all you need to know in this situation.
moebius2007 05-03-07, 08:49 AM	First of all Thank you guys that solved almost all the troubles i had with it. I would say that if an attack with the spell on missed the spell is not lost.For example he tried to deliver the spell with her first attack and missed, she would hold the charge in her hand so if she made another attack in that round with the same hand she would be able to deliver it, wouldnt she?
blindcynic 05-03-07, 12:15 PM	Hi all, I double checked Comp Arcane and Tectorman was right, to a degree. You can make an unarmed strike against a foe and release a touch spell however, if you miss with your unarmed strike then you cannot release the spell & must wait until your next action to either make an unarmed strike or touch attack. (You can't do both with one action)
moebius2007 05-03-07, 12:25 PM	Yes I think so too.