Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
boatmanj
04-15-07, 12:47 PM Is this class worth it? It has some pretty heft requirements, though it's a nice blend of the classes. I'm looking to play a jack of many trades class. Unfortunately I have my heart set on playing an Elf, so the XP penalty will probably hit me pretty hard without some decent planning. I also plan to augment a little bit with practiced spellcaster so my caster level doesn't suffer AS much. So anyone have experience on this?
FreAkOuTRG
04-15-07, 12:55 PM You really have to work to make your character workable up to level 10. To overcome Exp problems, try Bard 3, Druid 3, Rogue 2, Green Whisperer (dragon magazine, I think) 2. Check out Chaos Music as well. If you were human, I would say grab Able Learner, but that's not an option. Hymnist is nice, but not a must-have.
Chimaera2000
04-15-07, 09:28 PM The Fochlucan Lyrist is very good.... around level 15 or so. Don't get me wrong, I like the Lyrist a lot (I had an idea for a changeling Lyrist who could become anyone and do anything, or vice-versa :P), but it's got some steep requirements and you'll have to do a lot of multiclassing.

Take a look at the Tools for Fochlucan Lyrist Builds thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=377248) for some tips. One of my favorite tricks is to use the Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra feats from Magic of Incarnum to meet the evasion prerequisite. It means that you can have even more caster levels.

A good sample build for a Lyrist is Bard 4/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9. Arcane Hierophant is from Races of the Wild and Sublime Chord is from Complete Arcane.
Dyne
04-16-07, 12:01 AM Would it be horrible to just lower the requirements of Fochlucan Lyrist so it's more attainable at a lower level? Or would that unbalance it?
Marcus Majarra
04-16-07, 12:54 AM Fochlucan Lyrist is strong: you gain full BAB, two good saves, full double casting. This is the reason the requirements are so hefty. The class' benefits help outweight the disastrous disadvantages multiclassing cost, in order to qualify.
Lotus Crane
04-16-07, 03:39 AM No, they don't. By the time you hit whatever 10/Fochlucan Lyrist 10, the benefits of the PrC just barely equal the costs of entering it in the first place; they in no way, shape, or form outweigh them.

At any reasonable level (2-19) that a player might actually be able to expect playing at, FL builds are disastrously unplayable, and inferior not only to straight druid, but even to straight bard.

The FL is one of the most poorly implemented PrC's ever, rivaling only the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) in its ineptitude.
retillin
04-16-07, 10:00 AM "Special: The candidate must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level or higher spell slots to exclusively cast haste."

What the hell? I mean really? What kind of crazy would make that a pre-req?
RobbyPants
04-16-07, 10:49 AM "Special: The candidate must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level or higher spell slots to exclusively cast haste."

What the hell? I mean really? What kind of crazy would make that a pre-req?
No kidding. I love the flavor of the Swiftblade, but it's powers gained vs. its prereqs leave a lot to be desired...

Back on track: The Fochlucan Lyrist is cool in a campign where you start a high level, but as everyone else has said, you'll kill yourself if you try to get there from scratch!

Maybe WotC made the PrC to "increase the difficulty level" for experienced players. :P
Jaxgaret
04-16-07, 03:15 PM "Special: The candidate must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level or higher spell slots to exclusively cast haste."

What the hell? I mean really? What kind of crazy would make that a pre-req?

What? Haste is a good spell :)

The Fochlucan Lyrist is a nostalgia PrC - it was built to approximate what used to be the Bard in 1ed or 2ed (I forget which), an intensely multiclassed character that found benefits from it at the higher levels.

If you build your character right, it's just fine as a PrC. It's similar to the Truenamer in that respect; it takes a dedicated focus to be usable.
Khoran
04-16-07, 03:36 PM The Fochlucan Lyrist is a nostalgia PrC - it was built to approximate what used to be the Bard in 1ed or 2ed (I forget which), an intensely multiclassed character that found benefits from it at the higher levels.
It was first edition, I am almost possitive.
FreAkOuTRG
04-16-07, 03:40 PM No, they don't. By the time you hit whatever 10/Fochlucan Lyrist 10, the benefits of the PrC just barely equal the costs of entering it in the first place; they in no way, shape, or form outweigh them.

At any reasonable level (2-19) that a player might actually be able to expect playing at, FL builds are disastrously unplayable, and inferior not only to straight druid, but even to straight bard.

The FL is one of the most poorly implemented PrC's ever, rivaling only the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) in its ineptitude.

While I believe that you should be able to enter the class much earlier (5-6) and/or take out evasion as a prerequisite, the fochlucan lyrist is completely playable at all levels - if you do it right, which can be difficult. It certainly isn't the worst, and I actually rather like it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boatmanj 04-15-07, 12:47 PM	Is this class worth it? It has some pretty heft requirements, though it's a nice blend of the classes. I'm looking to play a jack of many trades class. Unfortunately I have my heart set on playing an Elf, so the XP penalty will probably hit me pretty hard without some decent planning. I also plan to augment a little bit with practiced spellcaster so my caster level doesn't suffer AS much. So anyone have experience on this?
FreAkOuTRG 04-15-07, 12:55 PM	You really have to work to make your character workable up to level 10. To overcome Exp problems, try Bard 3, Druid 3, Rogue 2, Green Whisperer (dragon magazine, I think) 2. Check out Chaos Music as well. If you were human, I would say grab Able Learner, but that's not an option. Hymnist is nice, but not a must-have.
Chimaera2000 04-15-07, 09:28 PM	The Fochlucan Lyrist is very good.... around level 15 or so. Don't get me wrong, I like the Lyrist a lot (I had an idea for a changeling Lyrist who could become anyone and do anything, or vice-versa :P), but it's got some steep requirements and you'll have to do a lot of multiclassing. Take a look at the Tools for Fochlucan Lyrist Builds thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=377248) for some tips. One of my favorite tricks is to use the Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra feats from Magic of Incarnum to meet the evasion prerequisite. It means that you can have even more caster levels. A good sample build for a Lyrist is Bard 4/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9. Arcane Hierophant is from Races of the Wild and Sublime Chord is from Complete Arcane.
Dyne 04-16-07, 12:01 AM	Would it be horrible to just lower the requirements of Fochlucan Lyrist so it's more attainable at a lower level? Or would that unbalance it?
Marcus Majarra 04-16-07, 12:54 AM	Fochlucan Lyrist is strong: you gain full BAB, two good saves, full double casting. This is the reason the requirements are so hefty. The class' benefits help outweight the disastrous disadvantages multiclassing cost, in order to qualify.
Lotus Crane 04-16-07, 03:39 AM	No, they don't. By the time you hit whatever 10/Fochlucan Lyrist 10, the benefits of the PrC just barely equal the costs of entering it in the first place; they in no way, shape, or form outweigh them. At any reasonable level (2-19) that a player might actually be able to expect playing at, FL builds are disastrously unplayable, and inferior not only to straight druid, but even to straight bard. The FL is one of the most poorly implemented PrC's ever, rivaling only the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) in its ineptitude.
retillin 04-16-07, 10:00 AM	"Special: The candidate must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level or higher spell slots to exclusively cast haste." What the hell? I mean really? What kind of crazy would make that a pre-req?
RobbyPants 04-16-07, 10:49 AM	"Special: The candidate must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level or higher spell slots to exclusively cast haste." What the hell? I mean really? What kind of crazy would make that a pre-req? No kidding. I love the flavor of the Swiftblade, but it's powers gained vs. its prereqs leave a lot to be desired... Back on track: The Fochlucan Lyrist is cool in a campign where you start a high level, but as everyone else has said, you'll kill yourself if you try to get there from scratch! Maybe WotC made the PrC to "increase the difficulty level" for experienced players. :P
Jaxgaret 04-16-07, 03:15 PM	"Special: The candidate must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level or higher spell slots to exclusively cast haste." What the hell? I mean really? What kind of crazy would make that a pre-req? What? Haste is a good spell :) The Fochlucan Lyrist is a nostalgia PrC - it was built to approximate what used to be the Bard in 1ed or 2ed (I forget which), an intensely multiclassed character that found benefits from it at the higher levels. If you build your character right, it's just fine as a PrC. It's similar to the Truenamer in that respect; it takes a dedicated focus to be usable.
Khoran 04-16-07, 03:36 PM	The Fochlucan Lyrist is a nostalgia PrC - it was built to approximate what used to be the Bard in 1ed or 2ed (I forget which), an intensely multiclassed character that found benefits from it at the higher levels. It was first edition, I am almost possitive.
FreAkOuTRG 04-16-07, 03:40 PM	No, they don't. By the time you hit whatever 10/Fochlucan Lyrist 10, the benefits of the PrC just barely equal the costs of entering it in the first place; they in no way, shape, or form outweigh them. At any reasonable level (2-19) that a player might actually be able to expect playing at, FL builds are disastrously unplayable, and inferior not only to straight druid, but even to straight bard. The FL is one of the most poorly implemented PrC's ever, rivaling only the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) in its ineptitude. While I believe that you should be able to enter the class much earlier (5-6) and/or take out evasion as a prerequisite, the fochlucan lyrist is completely playable at all levels - if you do it right, which can be difficult. It certainly isn't the worst, and I actually rather like it.