Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TiwazTyrsfist 07-17-07, 12:59 PM	I seem to remember a PrC for an arcane caster to specialize in force effect spells, but I can't remember the name or find the book it's in. Can someone point me in the right direction?
NobodyRemembersThis 07-17-07, 01:23 PM	Argent Savant in Complete Arcane. :)
TiwazTyrsfist 07-17-07, 03:40 PM	The sad thing is, that was one of the books I looked in for it... My amazing, almost magical blindness... Thank you!
NobodyRemembersThis 07-17-07, 04:31 PM	You are most welcome. :ayyyy!:
Nercrominionicon 07-18-07, 12:37 PM	Lets not forget the Force Missle Mage, in which ever book it was. I'm gonna cast MAGIC MISSILE
Kamin_Majere 07-18-07, 01:48 PM	Force Missile mage was from Dragon, it was also in the Dragon Compendium. THere is also the Abjurant Champion you can throw in. Its not "force" per say but it boost a few force based effects (like shield) and its just a good class all around.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-18-07, 05:04 PM	So, I didn't like the Argent Savant. I've written this as an alternative. Please Evaluate and Critic. Thank you. Master of Force - A force effect magic specialist. A student of arcane energies, the Master of Force has spent a goodly amount of time researching the nature of magic. The inevitable conclusion, that Force is the True pinnacle of magic. Though often dealing less raw damage than other forms of energy, force penetrates all layers of reality, affects all beings equally. It is the true essence of magic. Requirements Spells: The ability to cast magic missile and three other spells with the force descriptor, including one of at least 5th level. Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 12 ranks, Spellcraft 12 ranks. Feats: Energy Substitution (any) OR Nonlethal Substitution. Special: May not be an enchanter or illusionist. Edit: I forgot some important bits. Hit die: d4 Skills: Same as a Wizard, both the class skills and the skill points. Lvl_____BAB_____Fort__Ref__Will____Class Features_______________________Spell Casting 1______+0_______+0___+0__+2_____Force Specialization__________________+1 Caster level 2______+1_______+0___+0__+3_____Force Spell Specialty__________________+1 Caster level 3______+1_______+1___+1__+3_____Force Substitution Spell_______________+1 Caster level 4______+2_______+1___+1__+4_____Force Spell Specialty__________________+1 Caster level 5______+2_______+1___+1__+4_____Force Mastery, Special Feat Access_____+1 Caster level Lvl 1 - Force Specialization - Having dedicated yourself to the concept that force effects are the pinnacle of the magical arts, you have specialized in this narrow field. You can cast one additional spell per day of each level you can cast, but this spell slot may only be used for force spells. Additionally you gain a +2 bonus on spellcraft checks related to force spells. However, by focusing on the more solid aspects of magic, you in turn neglect some of the more ephemeral aspects. Either Enchantment or Illusion becomes a banned school for you. If you are a spontaneous caster with a limited spell known list (like a sorcerer) you may replace any spells from your banned school with spells of the same level from different schools at this time. If you are a specialist wizard, and both enchantment and illusion are already banned schools for you, you must choose one more banned school (not divination). Lvl 2 & 4 - Force Spell Specialty - At second and fourth levels you may choose one of the following special powers. Unbounded Missiles: Your Magic Missile spell is no longer capped at 5 missiles. It continues to gain more missiles past level 9, for 6 at lvl 11, 7 at lvl 13, and so on. Ablative Mage Armor: Your Mage Armor spell provides additional physical protection. In addition to the normal AC bonus, it provides DR 1/- and the Light Fortification armor feature (25% resistance to Crit/sneak attack). You may take this feature multiple times. The second improves it to Moderate Fortification, the third to Heavy Fortification. The DR does not increase. Improved Mage Armor: Your Mage Armor Spell provides additional mystical protection. In addition to the normal AC bonus, it provides you with SR (13). You may take this feature additional times, each one increasing the SR by 4. Forceful Penetration: Gain the effect of Spell penetration for your force Spells. This STACKS with normal spell penetration and greater spell penetration feats. Invisible Dart: As the reserve feat from Comp. Mage. Blade of Force: As the reserve feat from Comp. Mage. Force Spell Trick: Select one spell you can cast as a force spell. (This includes through the use of the Force Substitution Spell class feature). You may cast this spell with your bonus force spell slot as if it were one level lower. Thus, if you can cast 7th level spells, and chose Force Spell Trick (Mordenkainen's Sword) you could cast it with your 6th level bonus force spell slot. You may take this feature multiple times, each time applying it to a different force spell. Also, you may cast the chosen spell with metamagic feats. Thus a Still Mord.'s Sword in your 7th level slot, an empowered Mord.'s sword in your 8th level slot, or a maximized Mord.'s sword in your 9th level slot. Lvl 3 - Force Substitution Spell - Your understanding of magical force has progressed to a point where you can replace basic forms of energy with pure magical force. Force substitution spell may be applied to any spell that has an energy descriptor (fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic) and deals damage. The spell now deals force damage rather than the associated energy type, and gains the [Force] descriptor in place of the elemental descriptor. However, all damage dice are reduced one step on the following chart. d12 -> d10 -> d8 -> d6 -> d4 -> d3 -> d2 -> 1 So, a 10th caster level Force Substitution Fireball would deal 10d3 force damage, rather than 10d6 fire damage. A Force Substitution Spell takes up a spell slot one level higher than the spells actual level. This class feature counts as a metamagic feat for the purposes of qualifying for other feats/classes. Lvl 5 - Force Mastery - You cast all force spells at +2 caster level. Additionally, three times per day, you may apply Force Substitution Spell to a spell you are casting spontaneously, without increasing the spell level or casting time. Special Feat Access - Anytime you would gain a feat from character level (3rd, 6th 9th, etc) or a wizard bonus feat (or other spell casting class bonus feat at DM's discretion) you may choose to take one of the special features from Force Spell Specialty at a feat.
Nercrominionicon 07-19-07, 02:11 PM	Unbounded Missles is a great ability, if a little strong. I can see it now... Wizard casts magic missle Master of Force: THAT's not a Magic Missle, THIS is a magic Missle(launches swarm of 10 empowered magic missles)
BilopTheFleshwarper 07-20-07, 02:53 AM	hehe yeah, force missle mage is disjusting specially when you get to epic and get the feat where you can cast extra quickened spells... several quickened maximized magic missles later....dead god. also pierces shield and brooch of shielding, also the option of doing them as actual elements and taking advantage of somethings weakness.
strenoth 07-21-07, 07:01 PM	The force substitution ability is too weak I think. 2 damage dice drops AND an extra spell level? O.o Hmm, maybe if we compared to some other direct damage force spells? is there a 4th level force damage spell that does more than leve x d3 damage? I would expect level x d4 at least
thorofasgard13 07-21-07, 11:58 PM	The force substitution ability is too weak I think. 2 damage dice drops AND an extra spell level? O.o Hmm, maybe if we compared to some other direct damage force spells? is there a 4th level force damage spell that does more than leve x d3 damage? I would expect level x d4 at least Well there is orb of force that does 1D6/caster level (max 10D6) and it is a level 4 conjuration spell, resolved on a ranged touch attack.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-22-07, 08:44 PM	So, I definately think that Force Substitution is worth Both a decrease in dice size and a level cost increase. However, I was rather iffy on the values I set. I changed it to reducing the die one step rather than two. Basicly, I was going of the Energy substitution feat, but nerfing it because I feel Force spells are much stronger than fire, electric, or even sonic spells.
Twylyght 07-22-07, 09:03 PM	I like what you have started there, one quick thing I noticed though is under your Ablative Mage Armor ability, you give the effects of selecting the ablility 3 times for Heavy Fortification. However as I read it, you only get 2 selections over all levels of the class (at 2nd & 4th).
TiwazTyrsfist 07-22-07, 09:58 PM	True, however at 5th level you gain the choice to take those abilities as feats. So, assuming you start as soon as possible (9th I think) then at 14th level you have that option, and at 15th level when you get your regular feat you can take one of those options as a feat. If you take your first 9 levels as a wizard, and your 15th level is wizard (thus your tenth Wizard level) so that you get a wizard bonus feat, you may choose one of the force spell specialties as a feat in place of that as well. You see? So, though you only get two as part of the class progression, you may take more later in place of your feats if you so choose.
Twylyght 07-22-07, 10:19 PM	Ah missed that! sorry, :D
forsaken1111 07-23-07, 01:50 PM	So, I definately think that Force Substitution is worth Both a decrease in dice size and a level cost increase. However, I was rather iffy on the values I set. I changed it to reducing the die one step rather than two. Basicly, I was going of the Energy substitution feat, but nerfing it because I feel Force spells are much stronger than fire, electric, or even sonic spells. TBH if you're going to make force spells this much more common you should also allow people to make rings of force resistance. You're basically treating it like just another energy type, rather than making it the rare and powerful thing its supposed to be.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-23-07, 04:34 PM	Well, I don't intend this to be a common prestige class. First off, you have to have nine class level and be advancing to tenth level to even start the class. Tenth level characters are, even in high level settings, roughly 1 in a thousand or less. Second, this is a specialist in a focused area, and specilizing out of a rather advanced field, i.e. magic. To make an analogy, if wizards are doctors, these guys are brain surgeons or cardiac specialists. So, it's not like every Tom, Dick, and Bigby is going to be suddenly using Force substitution spell.
Saedar 07-27-07, 05:43 PM	Perhaps I'm mistaken, but doesn't the BaB you have listed fall outside of the typical values for poor progression, namely: +0, +1, +1, +2, +2? Also, what would class skills be? Same as Argent Savant? And a d4 HD?
TiwazTyrsfist 07-27-07, 06:33 PM	I thought I used the same BAB progression as Argent Savant. And yeah, I forgot hit die and skills. d4 hit die, and skills like a wizard. Updated the class post.
Saedar 07-27-07, 08:25 PM	Negative on the BaB. Still needs fixed. Otherwise, the class looks pretty good. I think I may try and mess with it in the next game I play, with your permission, of course.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-28-07, 06:14 PM	Okay, fixed. And feel free to use it.
Tedronai 07-29-07, 05:45 PM	Any particular reasoning why a member of this class could not originate as an Illusionist or an Enchanter? It just seems unclear to me.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-29-07, 06:34 PM	It seems to me that Illusion and Enchantment are the antithesis of Conjuration and Evocation, which are the focal schools for this class. It's something you could certainly change for your own use, but for me, if we say that this person is focusing on a specific part of magic, and this part is focused on real, physical effects, it's logical that they aren't coming into it from a speciality in illusiory or mental magic. More clearly, Some one whose whole life is about tricking people with Illusions, or whose whole life is about controlling the minds of other, is not going to suddenly decide "Oh, of coarse, the be all end all of magic is FORCE EFFECTS!" They are more likely to further specialize in thier own direction. I actually considered requiring them to be an Evoker or Conjuror, but thought that was too restrictive.
Tedronai 07-30-07, 01:45 AM	By those same arguments, however, Necromancy would seem (to me) to be just as unlikely a source of these individuals as Illusion or Enchantment. The study of negative energy and Unlife is hardly compatible with a specialization in Force effects. If that was the reasoning (and it does seem reasonable to me, it simply wasn't made clear in the original posting), then I might suggest restricting the class (for members originating from the wizard class) to Diviners (since they are so far removed from any other typical damage types, and are better positioned to encounter sweeping revelations of the nature of magic), Evokers, and Conjurers (since both of these typically make use of archetypal Force effects already)
forsaken1111 07-30-07, 06:08 AM	You should also allow wizards who do not specialize, don't restrict it to "Only specialists of these types".
Tedronai 07-31-07, 05:57 PM	You should also allow wizards who do not specialize, don't restrict it to "Only specialists of these types". Possibly, though for them, I might toss on another requirement such as spell focus (Divination, Evocation, or Conjuration), and perhaps use that as a prerequisite for any non-wizard as well And while I can understand the basis of using Energy/Nonlethal Substitution as prerequisites, they simply do not seem like the best choices to me. Something like Transdimensional Spell would seem drastically more in-flavour to my understanding. To me, having Energy Substitution, in particular (and non-lethal substitution to a lesser degree), says that 'This mage has experimented with other energies before, and found them lacking.' While certainly possible, and characterful, it doesn't seem logical to limit the class to those who, essentially, started their careers down the 'wrong' path before discovering the purity of Force.
Miscaleous 07-31-07, 07:34 PM	I came up with a flavorful force spell caster of my own not too long ago... http://www.enworld.org/forums/printthread.php?t=200505 I just like all the names for the effects myself.
LordDraxcis 09-11-07, 03:59 PM	I came up with a flavorful force spell caster of my own not too long ago... http://www.enworld.org/forums/printthread.php?t=200505 I just like all the names for the effects myself. Dude. Cool names. Like it. :cookie:
LordDraxcis 09-11-07, 04:01 PM	OK, I would totally play this class! Awesome! only problem is that my DM is notorious for not allowing homebrew classes, especially PrC homebrews. Pity. Otherwise it looks pretty cool. I like the idea of amazing swarms of magic missiles. My 11th level wizard uses that spell all the time. kinda sad, but true.