Goblin Wolfrider: PEACH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Goblin Wolfrider: PEACH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werebat
09-01-07, 07:14 PM (Overpowered, not powerful enough, too focused, too broad -- what do you think?)

* * * * *
Goblin Wolfrider

Gaark the wolfrider ducked as Gharaal, his worg mount and companion, jumped the mushroom-covered trunk of the fallen tree that was rotting in their path. Motioning with his feet alone, he directed Gharaal to stop short his race through the darkening wood so that he could peer down at something in the mouldering leaves.

It was a button, and by its color and shape Gaark could tell it was from the vest of the gnome he was tracking. It looked to have been torn from its garment only minutes ago.

“We are close,” he whispered to Gharaal in gravelly Goblin. “Quiet, now.”

Gharaal grinned in an unsettling, toothy manner, licked his chops, and loped on into the gloom.

Mixing the skills of a ranger and a rogue with the goblin affinity for wolves and worgs as mounts and allies, the goblin wolfrider is the exemplar of his people in a manner similar to that of a human knight. Whether astride a wolf or a more intelligent worg, a wolfrider combines speed, stealth, and a knowledge of the natural terrain he inhabits in order to stalk and fell his foes. Many serve as scouts for the goblin communities they are part of, supplementing the swarming armies of their kind with spirited hit-and-run tactics when the need for battle arises.

Hit Die: d6

Requirements:
Race: Goblin
Skills: Ride (8 Ranks), Hide (8 Ranks)
Feats: Mounted Combat, Track
Base Attack Bonus: +4

Class Skills: The wolfrider’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str)
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Progression: (Note: Goblin Wolfriders get Average BAB progression, Good Reflex saves, and Poor Fortitude and Will saves).

1st: Animal Companion, Ride Bonus, Sneak Attack +1d6
2nd: Mounted Stalker
3rd: Mounted Sniper, Woodland Stride
4th: Sneak Attack +2d6
5th: Evasion
6th: Favored Enemy
7th: Sneak Attack +3d6
8th: Trackless Step
9th: Camouflage
10th: Sneak Attack +4d6

Benefits:

Animal Companion: A goblin wolfrider gains an animal companion that functions identically to a druid’s animal companion, except that he may only choose a wolf or a worg (even though a worg is not an animal). The wolfrider uses his class levels as effective druid levels to determine the capabilities of this animal companion. If he has effective druid levels in other classes that grant an animal companion, he may add them to his wolfrider class levels provided they are not being used to maintain or advance another animal companion. A worg animal companion adjusts the wolfrider’s effective druid level by -3 for purposes of determining his companion’s characteristics and special abilities, and thus cannot be taken until the wolfrider has at least 4 effective druid levels for such purposes.

Ride Bonus: A goblin wolfrider gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on all Ride checks made in conjunction with his animal companion mount.

Sneak Attack: This is identical to the Rogue ability and stacks with it.

Mounted Stalker: A goblin wolfrider knows how to move a mount stealthily through nearly any terrain. His mount uses the wolfrider’s skill ranks, rather than its own, to make Hide and Move Silently checks. The mount still uses its own size, Dexterity, armor check penalty, and other applicable modifiers when making such checks. If the goblin wolfrider already has this ability from another source, then his mount gains the Stealthy feat as a bonus feat instead.

Mounted Sniper: When mounted on his animal companion and using the Hide skill to snipe, the goblin wolfrider may add a bonus equal to his class levels to Hide checks made to conceal himself after shooting.

Woodland Stride: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name, except that it only functions while the wolfrider is mounted on his animal companion and it aids the passing of both the wolfrider and his mount.

Evasion: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name.

Favored Enemy: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name. If the wolfrider already has one or more favored enemies, he may choose a new one in an identical manner and with identical effects as a ranger who chooses a new favored enemy in addition to those he already has.

Trackless Step: This ability is identical to the druid ability of the same name, except that it only functions while the wolfrider is mounted on his animal companion and it hides the passing of both the wolfrider and his mount.

Camouflage: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name, except that the wolfrider may use it to allow his mount to hide as well.
ORC_KiRin
09-01-07, 07:43 PM (Overpowered, not powerful enough, too focused, too broad -- what do you think?)

I'd say this is focused pretty well.
Have you tested this in play at all? I'm curious about how the Ride Bonus feature affects a foe's ability to strike the mount.

If I were running one of these as an NPC, I'd load it down with mounted combat feats and have the rider making ride checks like crazy to negate hits on the mount. I'd do the same thing as a player. That fits the class, I think, but I wonder how effective the tactic/build would be.
IdleAltruism
09-01-07, 08:19 PM The idea is classic, but this class is all over the place with little to no focus. Mounted sneak attack doesn't exactly go well together. Look at the halfling outrider, that should work just fine for this sort of thing(or adjusting the cavalier). Wild plains outrider is another mounted class.

The class itself needs alot of work, it looks like you wanted to keep rogue levels while taking a PrC. This doesn't really work well with this concept. I suggest looking at the classes above and deciding if you really need this class, if so I'd use either the cavalier or outrider as a sort of base for this class.
Werebat
09-02-07, 10:44 AM The idea is classic, but this class is all over the place with little to no focus. Mounted sneak attack doesn't exactly go well together. Look at the halfling outrider, that should work just fine for this sort of thing(or adjusting the cavalier). Wild plains outrider is another mounted class.

The class itself needs alot of work, it looks like you wanted to keep rogue levels while taking a PrC. This doesn't really work well with this concept. I suggest looking at the classes above and deciding if you really need this class, if so I'd use either the cavalier or outrider as a sort of base for this class.

Hm, actually I did use WPO as a base (it's where I got Mounted Stalker from), as well as Halfling Outrider. The focus I was going for was druidic animal companion progression mixed with stealth and SA of a ranger/rogue.

I think mounted sneak attack would be pretty boss when combined with the 3rd level WPO ability -- you've got speed and maneuverability and aren't afraid to use it because you won't be losing any attacks when you do. Move to flank, get full iterative SA -- now go do that every round. When your wolf trips your opponent and makes it easier to hit with all those iteratives, that's just gravy. :D

I actually added Mounted Sniper to make the PrC more attractive to archers -- not sure if it does enough to make archery look very good compared to TWF with this PrC.

Anyway thanks for the comments, folks.

- Ron ^*^
Drag0nUL
09-02-07, 02:30 PM The idea is classic, but this class is all over the place with little to no focus. Mounted sneak attack doesn't exactly go well together. Look at the halfling outrider, that should work just fine for this sort of thing(or adjusting the cavalier). Wild plains outrider is another mounted class.

The class itself needs alot of work, it looks like you wanted to keep rogue levels while taking a PrC. This doesn't really work well with this concept. I suggest looking at the classes above and deciding if you really need this class, if so I'd use either the cavalier or outrider as a sort of base for this class.

I think what this class achieves is a bit different than cavalier or outrider. It does not lean toward the 'knight in shining armor' approach ( somehow the mental image of 'goblin cavalry charge' makes me laugh) but it rather encourages a fighting style more like the late medieval dragoons.

It lacks the standing power of a true cavalryman, but it serves well as mounted infantry and/or skirmisher.

You can either combine it with WPO to move full mount speed and use full TWF attack from a flanking position every round, or you can move mounted to an advantageous position, dismount and flank with your wolf.
Werebat
09-03-07, 02:15 AM I think what this class achieves is a bit different than cavalier or outrider. It does not lean toward the 'knight in shining armor' approach ( somehow the mental image of 'goblin cavalry charge' makes me laugh) but it rather encourages a fighting style more like the late medieval dragoons.

It lacks the standing power of a true cavalryman, but it serves well as mounted infantry and/or skirmisher.

You can either combine it with WPO to move full mount speed and use full TWF attack from a flanking position every round, or you can move mounted to an advantageous position, dismount and flank with your wolf.

And of course a pack of wolfriders will be using, well, "wolfpack" tactics to keep the enemy flanked.

It's also possible, as I think I mentioned, to throw in a level of Barbarian and two levels of Fighter (for feats) to create a "burly" raging goblin on a slavering worg who uses Power Attack, Spirited Charge, and Ride-By Attack with a longspear (or lance) to strike from ambush as a sort of shock trooper. Extra Rage lets you do this trick a few times a day. Use a wolf for easier access to the Spring Attack feat (for the wolf) so it can snap at the enemy on the way past. Once you get Mounted Woodland Stride this is especially effective in forest terrain.

- Ron ^*^
Pennarin
11-04-07, 05:07 PM Werebat, you might check out for comparaison's sake, if nothing else, the worg rider PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=894165&highlight=worg+rider) I did a few months before yours. Very different, but worth checking for the fun of it.
Darth Sephiroth
11-06-07, 11:56 AM First off, I'd change the Goblin prerequisite to only requiring the goblinoid subtype.

I'd also add the Dire Wolf to the Animal Companion list.

Ditch several of the Ranger features, a mounted combatant probably shouldn't have Trackless Step or Camo.

Consider adding in a bonus at one of the higher levels to grant the Warbeast template (MM2) to your animal companion. Actually, I'd partially ditch the Animal Companion ability and make Animal Companion/Special Mount (Or Wild Cohort) a prerequisite and have the levels add to your effective level for that ability (Perhaps even adding the benefits of class levels in Animal Companion bonus' to a Wild Cohort.).

I'd swap out Sneak Attack for Skirmish (Both for you and your mount).
eternalGM
11-07-07, 06:17 PM I know people will think i just mindlessly compliment, but here goes; Werebat... I grabbed a character sheet [B]immediatelyB] and made a goblin rogue. Thank you for this wonderful PrC
Werebat
11-08-07, 12:52 AM I know people will think i just mindlessly compliment, but here goes; Werebat... I grabbed a character sheet [B]immediatelyB] and made a goblin rogue. Thank you for this wonderful PrC

Well, gee, thanks. I'm glad someone got some use out of it.

- Ron ^*^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werebat 09-01-07, 07:14 PM	(Overpowered, not powerful enough, too focused, too broad -- what do you think?) * * * * * Goblin Wolfrider Gaark the wolfrider ducked as Gharaal, his worg mount and companion, jumped the mushroom-covered trunk of the fallen tree that was rotting in their path. Motioning with his feet alone, he directed Gharaal to stop short his race through the darkening wood so that he could peer down at something in the mouldering leaves. It was a button, and by its color and shape Gaark could tell it was from the vest of the gnome he was tracking. It looked to have been torn from its garment only minutes ago. “We are close,” he whispered to Gharaal in gravelly Goblin. “Quiet, now.” Gharaal grinned in an unsettling, toothy manner, licked his chops, and loped on into the gloom. Mixing the skills of a ranger and a rogue with the goblin affinity for wolves and worgs as mounts and allies, the goblin wolfrider is the exemplar of his people in a manner similar to that of a human knight. Whether astride a wolf or a more intelligent worg, a wolfrider combines speed, stealth, and a knowledge of the natural terrain he inhabits in order to stalk and fell his foes. Many serve as scouts for the goblin communities they are part of, supplementing the swarming armies of their kind with spirited hit-and-run tactics when the need for battle arises. Hit Die: d6 Requirements: Race: Goblin Skills: Ride (8 Ranks), Hide (8 Ranks) Feats: Mounted Combat, Track Base Attack Bonus: +4 Class Skills: The wolfrider’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str) Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier. Progression: (Note: Goblin Wolfriders get Average BAB progression, Good Reflex saves, and Poor Fortitude and Will saves). 1st: Animal Companion, Ride Bonus, Sneak Attack +1d6 2nd: Mounted Stalker 3rd: Mounted Sniper, Woodland Stride 4th: Sneak Attack +2d6 5th: Evasion 6th: Favored Enemy 7th: Sneak Attack +3d6 8th: Trackless Step 9th: Camouflage 10th: Sneak Attack +4d6 Benefits: Animal Companion: A goblin wolfrider gains an animal companion that functions identically to a druid’s animal companion, except that he may only choose a wolf or a worg (even though a worg is not an animal). The wolfrider uses his class levels as effective druid levels to determine the capabilities of this animal companion. If he has effective druid levels in other classes that grant an animal companion, he may add them to his wolfrider class levels provided they are not being used to maintain or advance another animal companion. A worg animal companion adjusts the wolfrider’s effective druid level by -3 for purposes of determining his companion’s characteristics and special abilities, and thus cannot be taken until the wolfrider has at least 4 effective druid levels for such purposes. Ride Bonus: A goblin wolfrider gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on all Ride checks made in conjunction with his animal companion mount. Sneak Attack: This is identical to the Rogue ability and stacks with it. Mounted Stalker: A goblin wolfrider knows how to move a mount stealthily through nearly any terrain. His mount uses the wolfrider’s skill ranks, rather than its own, to make Hide and Move Silently checks. The mount still uses its own size, Dexterity, armor check penalty, and other applicable modifiers when making such checks. If the goblin wolfrider already has this ability from another source, then his mount gains the Stealthy feat as a bonus feat instead. Mounted Sniper: When mounted on his animal companion and using the Hide skill to snipe, the goblin wolfrider may add a bonus equal to his class levels to Hide checks made to conceal himself after shooting. Woodland Stride: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name, except that it only functions while the wolfrider is mounted on his animal companion and it aids the passing of both the wolfrider and his mount. Evasion: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name. Favored Enemy: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name. If the wolfrider already has one or more favored enemies, he may choose a new one in an identical manner and with identical effects as a ranger who chooses a new favored enemy in addition to those he already has. Trackless Step: This ability is identical to the druid ability of the same name, except that it only functions while the wolfrider is mounted on his animal companion and it hides the passing of both the wolfrider and his mount. Camouflage: This ability is identical to the ranger ability of the same name, except that the wolfrider may use it to allow his mount to hide as well.
ORC_KiRin 09-01-07, 07:43 PM	(Overpowered, not powerful enough, too focused, too broad -- what do you think?) I'd say this is focused pretty well. Have you tested this in play at all? I'm curious about how the Ride Bonus feature affects a foe's ability to strike the mount. If I were running one of these as an NPC, I'd load it down with mounted combat feats and have the rider making ride checks like crazy to negate hits on the mount. I'd do the same thing as a player. That fits the class, I think, but I wonder how effective the tactic/build would be.
IdleAltruism 09-01-07, 08:19 PM	The idea is classic, but this class is all over the place with little to no focus. Mounted sneak attack doesn't exactly go well together. Look at the halfling outrider, that should work just fine for this sort of thing(or adjusting the cavalier). Wild plains outrider is another mounted class. The class itself needs alot of work, it looks like you wanted to keep rogue levels while taking a PrC. This doesn't really work well with this concept. I suggest looking at the classes above and deciding if you really need this class, if so I'd use either the cavalier or outrider as a sort of base for this class.
Werebat 09-02-07, 10:44 AM	The idea is classic, but this class is all over the place with little to no focus. Mounted sneak attack doesn't exactly go well together. Look at the halfling outrider, that should work just fine for this sort of thing(or adjusting the cavalier). Wild plains outrider is another mounted class. The class itself needs alot of work, it looks like you wanted to keep rogue levels while taking a PrC. This doesn't really work well with this concept. I suggest looking at the classes above and deciding if you really need this class, if so I'd use either the cavalier or outrider as a sort of base for this class. Hm, actually I did use WPO as a base (it's where I got Mounted Stalker from), as well as Halfling Outrider. The focus I was going for was druidic animal companion progression mixed with stealth and SA of a ranger/rogue. I think mounted sneak attack would be pretty boss when combined with the 3rd level WPO ability -- you've got speed and maneuverability and aren't afraid to use it because you won't be losing any attacks when you do. Move to flank, get full iterative SA -- now go do that every round. When your wolf trips your opponent and makes it easier to hit with all those iteratives, that's just gravy. :D I actually added Mounted Sniper to make the PrC more attractive to archers -- not sure if it does enough to make archery look very good compared to TWF with this PrC. Anyway thanks for the comments, folks. - Ron ^*^
Drag0nUL 09-02-07, 02:30 PM	The idea is classic, but this class is all over the place with little to no focus. Mounted sneak attack doesn't exactly go well together. Look at the halfling outrider, that should work just fine for this sort of thing(or adjusting the cavalier). Wild plains outrider is another mounted class. The class itself needs alot of work, it looks like you wanted to keep rogue levels while taking a PrC. This doesn't really work well with this concept. I suggest looking at the classes above and deciding if you really need this class, if so I'd use either the cavalier or outrider as a sort of base for this class. I think what this class achieves is a bit different than cavalier or outrider. It does not lean toward the 'knight in shining armor' approach ( somehow the mental image of 'goblin cavalry charge' makes me laugh) but it rather encourages a fighting style more like the late medieval dragoons. It lacks the standing power of a true cavalryman, but it serves well as mounted infantry and/or skirmisher. You can either combine it with WPO to move full mount speed and use full TWF attack from a flanking position every round, or you can move mounted to an advantageous position, dismount and flank with your wolf.
Werebat 09-03-07, 02:15 AM	I think what this class achieves is a bit different than cavalier or outrider. It does not lean toward the 'knight in shining armor' approach ( somehow the mental image of 'goblin cavalry charge' makes me laugh) but it rather encourages a fighting style more like the late medieval dragoons. It lacks the standing power of a true cavalryman, but it serves well as mounted infantry and/or skirmisher. You can either combine it with WPO to move full mount speed and use full TWF attack from a flanking position every round, or you can move mounted to an advantageous position, dismount and flank with your wolf. And of course a pack of wolfriders will be using, well, "wolfpack" tactics to keep the enemy flanked. It's also possible, as I think I mentioned, to throw in a level of Barbarian and two levels of Fighter (for feats) to create a "burly" raging goblin on a slavering worg who uses Power Attack, Spirited Charge, and Ride-By Attack with a longspear (or lance) to strike from ambush as a sort of shock trooper. Extra Rage lets you do this trick a few times a day. Use a wolf for easier access to the Spring Attack feat (for the wolf) so it can snap at the enemy on the way past. Once you get Mounted Woodland Stride this is especially effective in forest terrain. - Ron ^*^
Pennarin 11-04-07, 05:07 PM	Werebat, you might check out for comparaison's sake, if nothing else, the worg rider PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=894165&highlight=worg+rider) I did a few months before yours. Very different, but worth checking for the fun of it.
Darth Sephiroth 11-06-07, 11:56 AM	First off, I'd change the Goblin prerequisite to only requiring the goblinoid subtype. I'd also add the Dire Wolf to the Animal Companion list. Ditch several of the Ranger features, a mounted combatant probably shouldn't have Trackless Step or Camo. Consider adding in a bonus at one of the higher levels to grant the Warbeast template (MM2) to your animal companion. Actually, I'd partially ditch the Animal Companion ability and make Animal Companion/Special Mount (Or Wild Cohort) a prerequisite and have the levels add to your effective level for that ability (Perhaps even adding the benefits of class levels in Animal Companion bonus' to a Wild Cohort.). I'd swap out Sneak Attack for Skirmish (Both for you and your mount).
eternalGM 11-07-07, 06:17 PM	I know people will think i just mindlessly compliment, but here goes; Werebat... I grabbed a character sheet [B]immediatelyB] and made a goblin rogue. Thank you for this wonderful PrC
Werebat 11-08-07, 12:52 AM	I know people will think i just mindlessly compliment, but here goes; Werebat... I grabbed a character sheet [B]immediatelyB] and made a goblin rogue. Thank you for this wonderful PrC Well, gee, thanks. I'm glad someone got some use out of it. - Ron ^*^