Good PrC for Rogue? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Good PrC for Rogue? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ioosef
09-23-07, 09:06 PM I'm thinking of playing a rogue, and I can't find a good PrC that adds a lot of SA damage as it advances levels. The best i found was the Nightsong Enforcer from the Complete Adventurer.
Since I couldn't find any PrC like that I'm thinking of instead taking levels on Thief Acrobat, is it a worthwhile PrC?
j3st3r
09-24-07, 04:00 AM Thief-Acrobat has a lot of good abilities, but no SA. Swashbuckler offers some of the same abilities and a lot of others. With Daring Outlaw rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for grace, dodge bonus, and sneak attack.

Invisible Blade is one of my favourites for a rogue. With Improved Uncanny Feint and Surprising Riposte [Drow of the Underdark] you'll be delivering a lot of sneak attacks in melee. I prefer the 10 level version of the Invisible Blade rather than the 5. [http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm]

Also the Penetrating Strike alternative class feature from the Dungeonscape is a must have for a rogue.
dman11235
09-24-07, 04:06 AM Or straight rogue, picking up Savvy Rogue when you can, so you can deal strength damage to anything. Rogue 12/swashie 8 with daring outlaw and savvy rogue. That gets you crippling strike and some full BAB class.
The_Shaman
09-24-07, 06:28 AM I'm thinking of playing a rogue, and I can't find a good PrC that adds a lot of SA damage as it advances levels. The best i found was the Nightsong Enforcer from the Complete Adventurer.
Since I couldn't find any PrC like that I'm thinking of instead taking levels on Thief Acrobat, is it a worthwhile PrC?

A lot... AFAIK no full-BAB prestige gives you more than 4 SA dice for 10 levels. The IB gets +3d6 for 5 levels, which is imo the best deal.
Ioosef
09-24-07, 09:27 PM Thanks for all the comments.
In which book can I find the IB?
Cariyaga
09-24-07, 09:34 PM Also, depending on your concept, the Avenger is pretty nice. Poison Use, both Uncanny Dodge's, bonus to saves against poison, more info in the PrC section in articles.
dndfencer
09-24-07, 09:50 PM Coward's strike from champions of ruin is good because it lets you add char level to SA for a -2 vs fear.
Personally, I prefer ninja over rogue because of the acrobatics and the ki abilities which are way cheap. Also, swordsage is great if you want a 'rogue' that can kick some but in melee and it is great to multiclass with because it lets you add 1/2 levels in other classes to initiator levels. By the way, you might want to look into beguilers too.
As for PrCs, i'd have to go with invisible blade, though swashbuckler is a solid choice, and so is shadow dancer. But, mainly rogues are good when they multiclass, get chummy with fighters and UA cheese (such as the fighter variant), and pull out all the most obscure stuff from random books to make one incomprehensible and awesome build.
dndfencer
09-24-07, 09:53 PM sry, feat is called craven
King_of_Succubi
09-24-07, 09:53 PM Assassin is always fun, but invis blade is ridiculous.
Ioosef
09-24-07, 09:57 PM I still don't know from which book IB is from.
JudgeK
09-24-07, 10:06 PM Then there's the Unearthed Arcana variant of the Fighter where you may replace feats for sneak attack... 4 levels of Fighter could give you +3d6 Sneak Attack ontop of full BAB and more HP (just skills lacking).
natzero
09-24-07, 11:24 PM you could go Dread Commando from heroes of battle.

5 levels +3d6 sudden strike

+5 initiative. (entire party)

-4 check penalty in any armor

o ya full BAB advancement.

good ref save

can move at normal speed with move silently/hide
only -10 when running and hide/MS

6 skill points/lvl

req:
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Hide 6 ranks, Move Silently 6 ranks.
Feats: Dodge, Mobility.

i <3 this PrC
j3st3r
09-25-07, 03:31 AM Invisible Blade can be found from Complete Warrior. It has some oddities, especially the feat prerequisites. The link that I gave earlier, has a much better version from the original IB author. This is what the original author, Kolja Liquette, said in another thread about the IB:

"The 5-level invisible blade that first appeared in Dragon (and then recently in The Complete Warrior) was edited down from my original 10-level progression. The abilities and text are the same, but there were some additional dagger throwing abilities built into the prestige class (to round it out).

The editors at Dragon had asked me to change the invisible blade prerequisites to reflect their ranged-based abilities, but when they later changed the invisible blade into a 5-level prestige class (and removed the dagger throwing abilities), they likely forgot to change the prerequisites as well.

To use the printed version of the invisible blade as is, simply change the prerequisites feats to:

Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) and Weapon Finesse.

I hope that helps."
madbliza
09-25-07, 02:31 PM If you are a halfling rogue, I would say the Whisperknife is good. You get to have SA progression as well as being able to flank from a range. Not only that, but the class has the ability to set you up for the Invisible Blade as well if you are going the full 20 levels.
Ioosef
09-26-07, 06:13 PM Thanks for the link and quote j3st3r.
Just one more question, when it says

If the invisible blade already has Improved Feint, choose a different feat.

What does it mean? BTW, this is under Uncanny Feint. Does it mean I replace Improved Feint with another feat?
1 ton ghost
09-26-07, 11:08 PM there are several flavors of rogue. don't know what you want particularly so i'm just shooting out of left field...

for heavy Sneak Attack, i'm partial to the following:

Assassin- we opt out for any Non-evil and no syndicate affiliation rather than any evil and guild hitman on prereq.
-Always partial to Improved Feint for obvious reasons
-Barbed Dagger in Comp.Adv is terribly effective w/ this (note that assassin's are proficient w/ "all daggers"
-Skills Tricks (Comp.Sndrl); Hidden Blade and another (can't think of which specifically) that's Quick Draw/Bluff savvy are quite nice for 2 ranks/ea.,
-Get your Int as high as possible...capitalize on 4+Int/Lvl, rogues= 8+Int/lvl, but you're getting a totally decent spell list, poison, etc as Asn...be human i guess, invest in Darkvision gear, etc.
Penetrating Strike (DungeonScape); 1/2 SA dice vs. opponents not normally sneak attack...'able (constructs, undead, plants). Trade out Trap Sense to get it, (Ex).
j3st3r
09-27-07, 04:40 AM Thanks for the link and quote j3st3r.
Just one more question, when it says

What does it mean? BTW, this is under Uncanny Feint. Does it mean I replace Improved Feint with another feat?

It means thet if you have chosen Improved feint in earlier levels, you do not get uncanny feint (since it's the same as imp. feint), but instead can choose any other feat that you meet the requirements for.
1337Ninja
09-27-07, 06:06 AM One level in Shadowdancer for the Hide in Plain Sight is always fun.
Nightshade
09-27-07, 03:05 PM If Eberron books are allowed, look at the Five Nations. There is a prc in there called the Dark Lanterns that provides full SA + several rogue special abilities + Hide in plain Sight. Nice!
gabrion
09-27-07, 05:43 PM Also if you are getting frustrated cause you have to fight undead/constructs and aren't getting the SA bonus, pick up the augment crystals from Magic Item Compendium that allow you to sneak attack those creatures.
ninjarabbit
09-30-07, 04:44 PM I gotta go with swashbuckler with the daring ourlaw feat. Full SA progression, int modifier to damage, and some much needed toughness with d10 hit dice and a strong fort save.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ioosef 09-23-07, 09:06 PM	I'm thinking of playing a rogue, and I can't find a good PrC that adds a lot of SA damage as it advances levels. The best i found was the Nightsong Enforcer from the Complete Adventurer. Since I couldn't find any PrC like that I'm thinking of instead taking levels on Thief Acrobat, is it a worthwhile PrC?
j3st3r 09-24-07, 04:00 AM	Thief-Acrobat has a lot of good abilities, but no SA. Swashbuckler offers some of the same abilities and a lot of others. With Daring Outlaw rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for grace, dodge bonus, and sneak attack. Invisible Blade is one of my favourites for a rogue. With Improved Uncanny Feint and Surprising Riposte [Drow of the Underdark] you'll be delivering a lot of sneak attacks in melee. I prefer the 10 level version of the Invisible Blade rather than the 5. [http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm] Also the Penetrating Strike alternative class feature from the Dungeonscape is a must have for a rogue.
dman11235 09-24-07, 04:06 AM	Or straight rogue, picking up Savvy Rogue when you can, so you can deal strength damage to anything. Rogue 12/swashie 8 with daring outlaw and savvy rogue. That gets you crippling strike and some full BAB class.
The_Shaman 09-24-07, 06:28 AM	I'm thinking of playing a rogue, and I can't find a good PrC that adds a lot of SA damage as it advances levels. The best i found was the Nightsong Enforcer from the Complete Adventurer. Since I couldn't find any PrC like that I'm thinking of instead taking levels on Thief Acrobat, is it a worthwhile PrC? A lot... AFAIK no full-BAB prestige gives you more than 4 SA dice for 10 levels. The IB gets +3d6 for 5 levels, which is imo the best deal.
Ioosef 09-24-07, 09:27 PM	Thanks for all the comments. In which book can I find the IB?
Cariyaga 09-24-07, 09:34 PM	Also, depending on your concept, the Avenger is pretty nice. Poison Use, both Uncanny Dodge's, bonus to saves against poison, more info in the PrC section in articles.
dndfencer 09-24-07, 09:50 PM	Coward's strike from champions of ruin is good because it lets you add char level to SA for a -2 vs fear. Personally, I prefer ninja over rogue because of the acrobatics and the ki abilities which are way cheap. Also, swordsage is great if you want a 'rogue' that can kick some but in melee and it is great to multiclass with because it lets you add 1/2 levels in other classes to initiator levels. By the way, you might want to look into beguilers too. As for PrCs, i'd have to go with invisible blade, though swashbuckler is a solid choice, and so is shadow dancer. But, mainly rogues are good when they multiclass, get chummy with fighters and UA cheese (such as the fighter variant), and pull out all the most obscure stuff from random books to make one incomprehensible and awesome build.
dndfencer 09-24-07, 09:53 PM	sry, feat is called craven
King_of_Succubi 09-24-07, 09:53 PM	Assassin is always fun, but invis blade is ridiculous.
Ioosef 09-24-07, 09:57 PM	I still don't know from which book IB is from.
JudgeK 09-24-07, 10:06 PM	Then there's the Unearthed Arcana variant of the Fighter where you may replace feats for sneak attack... 4 levels of Fighter could give you +3d6 Sneak Attack ontop of full BAB and more HP (just skills lacking).
natzero 09-24-07, 11:24 PM	you could go Dread Commando from heroes of battle. 5 levels +3d6 sudden strike +5 initiative. (entire party) -4 check penalty in any armor o ya full BAB advancement. good ref save can move at normal speed with move silently/hide only -10 when running and hide/MS 6 skill points/lvl req: Base Attack Bonus: +5. Skills: Hide 6 ranks, Move Silently 6 ranks. Feats: Dodge, Mobility. i <3 this PrC
j3st3r 09-25-07, 03:31 AM	Invisible Blade can be found from Complete Warrior. It has some oddities, especially the feat prerequisites. The link that I gave earlier, has a much better version from the original IB author. This is what the original author, Kolja Liquette, said in another thread about the IB: "The 5-level invisible blade that first appeared in Dragon (and then recently in The Complete Warrior) was edited down from my original 10-level progression. The abilities and text are the same, but there were some additional dagger throwing abilities built into the prestige class (to round it out). The editors at Dragon had asked me to change the invisible blade prerequisites to reflect their ranged-based abilities, but when they later changed the invisible blade into a 5-level prestige class (and removed the dagger throwing abilities), they likely forgot to change the prerequisites as well. To use the printed version of the invisible blade as is, simply change the prerequisites feats to: Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) and Weapon Finesse. I hope that helps."
madbliza 09-25-07, 02:31 PM	If you are a halfling rogue, I would say the Whisperknife is good. You get to have SA progression as well as being able to flank from a range. Not only that, but the class has the ability to set you up for the Invisible Blade as well if you are going the full 20 levels.
Ioosef 09-26-07, 06:13 PM	Thanks for the link and quote j3st3r. Just one more question, when it says If the invisible blade already has Improved Feint, choose a different feat. What does it mean? BTW, this is under Uncanny Feint. Does it mean I replace Improved Feint with another feat?
1 ton ghost 09-26-07, 11:08 PM	there are several flavors of rogue. don't know what you want particularly so i'm just shooting out of left field... for heavy Sneak Attack, i'm partial to the following: Assassin- we opt out for any Non-evil and no syndicate affiliation rather than any evil and guild hitman on prereq. -Always partial to Improved Feint for obvious reasons -Barbed Dagger in Comp.Adv is terribly effective w/ this (note that assassin's are proficient w/ "all daggers" -Skills Tricks (Comp.Sndrl); Hidden Blade and another (can't think of which specifically) that's Quick Draw/Bluff savvy are quite nice for 2 ranks/ea., -Get your Int as high as possible...capitalize on 4+Int/Lvl, rogues= 8+Int/lvl, but you're getting a totally decent spell list, poison, etc as Asn...be human i guess, invest in Darkvision gear, etc. Penetrating Strike (DungeonScape); 1/2 SA dice vs. opponents not normally sneak attack...'able (constructs, undead, plants). Trade out Trap Sense to get it, (Ex).
j3st3r 09-27-07, 04:40 AM	Thanks for the link and quote j3st3r. Just one more question, when it says What does it mean? BTW, this is under Uncanny Feint. Does it mean I replace Improved Feint with another feat? It means thet if you have chosen Improved feint in earlier levels, you do not get uncanny feint (since it's the same as imp. feint), but instead can choose any other feat that you meet the requirements for.
1337Ninja 09-27-07, 06:06 AM	One level in Shadowdancer for the Hide in Plain Sight is always fun.
Nightshade 09-27-07, 03:05 PM	If Eberron books are allowed, look at the Five Nations. There is a prc in there called the Dark Lanterns that provides full SA + several rogue special abilities + Hide in plain Sight. Nice!
gabrion 09-27-07, 05:43 PM	Also if you are getting frustrated cause you have to fight undead/constructs and aren't getting the SA bonus, pick up the augment crystals from Magic Item Compendium that allow you to sneak attack those creatures.
ninjarabbit 09-30-07, 04:44 PM	I gotta go with swashbuckler with the daring ourlaw feat. Full SA progression, int modifier to damage, and some much needed toughness with d10 hit dice and a strong fort save.