Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kargile 06-06-07, 02:29 AM	Hi guys new poster here. I plan on making a GSA who will eventually take Abjurant champion for levels 16-20. I came across a strange possibility between the two classes. One gains an extrodinary ability to add what is eventually +10 to his caster level. The Abjurant Champion sets the caster level at 16 (4 fighter/1 wizard/10 GSA/5AC) from my BaB. On top of my quandry I'll add this in too. My char is probably taking practiced spell-caster. Does any/all/some of this stack. If so what? Did I just find a wording loop-hole and I'm just min/maxing or what?
runestar 06-06-07, 03:51 AM	You should be able to choose the order in which they apply. Thus, it would seem that you can first set your base caster lv to 16, then apply practiced spellcaster, and finally the +10 caster lv bonus from GSA for a final caster lv of 30. Though you don't get much spellcasting anyways, so I doubt it is really game-breaking. The only possible abuse which may come to mind is that kelpstrand spell from spell compendium, since it lets you grapple using ranged touched attacks using caster lv+bab as your bab. So you might be able to churn out some mighty ridiculous grapple checks there...
gotbrain 06-06-07, 09:50 AM	i would say these dont stack. At level 15 your CL due to GSA is 11; this improves to 16 at level 20. Your BAB at this level is also 16 (4 for fighter, 7 for GSA and 5 for AC) so it doesnt really help. But the AC class feature says your CL is equal to your BAB (as long as it is higher) which seems to imply that it doesnt stack. And i dont think practiced spell caster would help at all since it would only improve your one spell casting class (wizard) from 1 to 5 which is lower than your current CL would be.
goawayugh 06-06-07, 10:11 AM	Here are the two options. 1: Your CL is 16 because Wiz1/GSA10/AC1 (keeping in mind that although only the even levels of GSA actually grant you more/higher level spells, every level adds to CL) 2: Your CL is 16 because that is what your BAB is (as per AC, which does say that it is either your BAB or your normal CL whichever is higher) Add Practiced Spellcaster on top of that and your CL is now 20. Either way you look at it, you have the same CL. Although, you have a spell list of an 11th level Wiz. (Wiz1/AC5/GSA10, of which only even levels add to spells/day/known)
Kargile 06-06-07, 11:41 AM	I suppose when it comes down to it I'm 100% willing to admit 20 is the level. Here is my reasoning in the first place. Both abilities are extrodinary. Its not like its a non catagorized ability simply to help the rules along. In other words, I dont think any other PrC that adds to a caster level does it as an ability at all, let alone an EX one. The same applies to Abjurant champion. The difference is one is setting the base of the CL and the other is adding to that base. I look at it like AC is the weapon type and GSA is the enhancement on it. i.e., before enhancements my casting is like a nonmagical short sword and GSA is like giving that short sword a +5 enchantment, then abjurant champion later comes in and changes that short swort into a long sword. Meanwhile I take practiced spell caster so that i'm proficient with martial weapons. Maybe my analogy isnt the best, but thats how I see the stacking in a way. I grant they probably didnt entirely anticipate this sort of thing, however in our campaign the way I pictured the GSA and I built him, he was going to be a walking statue teeming with magical energy. Perhaps his proficiency with magic wouldnt match that of a wizard but just being made of green star metal would give him a source of power beyond most peoples normal potential. Simply the fact that he learns to master his mind and body at level 20 with the 5th level of abjurant champion would give him this incredibly burst of magical strength. In any case whatever case you agree with practiced spell caster would have to stack since no matter what, the "base" is less than my total HD, which is what the feat works off of, not having to do with levels ever.