Help "resolve" this debate. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help "resolve" this debate. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nighttree
10-16-07, 10:30 PM Had a bit of a "differance of opinion" regarding progression of PrC in relation to a base class.
For this example let's say the character aquired their first level of the PrC at 6th level.
Player takes 1st through 3rd level of the PrC (putting them at
9th level)......then chooses to take a level in the base class (at 10th level) before continuing with the PrC.

Version #1: The character would take level 6 of the base class.

Version #2: the character would take level 10 of the base class.

Which is correct ???
Ninja_Ferret
10-16-07, 10:44 PM The character would take level 6 of the base class.
Say said character was a rogue and took assassin. his level would be rogue 5/ assassin 3. His next choice of classes is Assassin 4 or rogue 6.
Orenmir
10-16-07, 10:50 PM If you take a PrC at level 6, you will only have 5 levels of the original base class - because at 6th level you took a new class.

I'm not quite sure what your question is. Let's try to make this more concrete...

For your first 5 levels, you take Monk = Monk 5 (5 class levels).

The next 3 levels, you take Kensai = Monk 5 / Kensai 3 (8 class levels).

Then you take another level of Monk = Monk 6 / Kensai 3 (9 class levels).

Then continue with Kensai another level = Monk 6 / Kensai 4 (10 class levels).

What's so hard about this?
StevenO
10-16-07, 11:21 PM Classes only advance one level at a time.

Consider what would happen if "Version #2: the character would take level 10 of the base class." were true. That would imply that going back to a class after advancing another would let me double up on all those other levels. Also, if this were true what would happen if there next level went back into the PrC or something new; would it set that class up to level 11?
vorpo
10-16-07, 11:30 PM I think he's mixed up with character lvl (clvl) and class lvl.

Clvls are the total lvls of all your classes (base and PrCs). (I am leaving LA out of this for simplicity's sake)
class lvls are simply the lvls you have in a given class. Orenmir has made that clearer with his example. (tho he's mistaken with the use of the term "class level", it should have been "character level"

Using Orenmir's example,
A monk 5/kensai 3 is at clvl 8 but is a lvl 5 monk AND a lvl 3 kensai.

So when you advance a level, you either choose to advance the "class level" of monk or kensai. If you advance monk, you'd be a 6th level monk (monk 6/kensai 3); if you advance kensai, you'd be a 4th level kensai (monk 5/kensai 4). Either way, you CHARACTER level would be 9th.
nighttree
10-17-07, 12:19 AM I think what he is attempting is to "by pass" abilities that he is not interested in (from the base class), but still get the abilities he IS interested in by taking a level in the base class when they fall by skipping a level of the PrC.
vorpo
10-17-07, 12:24 AM I think what he is attempting is to "by pass" abilities that he is not interested in (from the base class), but still get the abilities he IS interested in by taking a level in the base class when they fall by skipping a level of the PrC.

Definitely CANNOT then. You have to go through class levels one by one. Your character level has no bearing whatsoever toward class levels (but the opposite isn't true: class level has everything to do with character level)

Simply consider this, you are a wiz 5/acolyte of the skin 3 (AotS gives +1 spellcasting at even levels, so it gives this character spellcasting ability of wiz 6). So you can cast up to 3rd level spells

Being a clvl 8 character, you then advance to clvl 9. Does it make sense if your 9th clvl is taken as a wiz 10 which gives you the ability to cast 5th level spells? Absolutely not.
Operation_Shoestring
10-17-07, 02:57 AM You know, i was going to ask a similar question.

When my rogue 16/swash3/EWM1 goes epic, and decides to continue gaining rogue levels, does he use epic progression for rogue or finish 4 more levels of non-epic progression?
bkdubs123
10-17-07, 04:12 AM ugh... well the rules are super sketchy when you go epic, but you would have to take 4 more levels of rogue in order to get an "epic progression" of rogue HOWEVER you would have to abide by "epic rules" since you are a 21st level character now.
goawayugh
10-17-07, 08:17 AM You know, i was going to ask a similar question.

When my rogue 16/swash3/EWM1 goes epic, and decides to continue gaining rogue levels, does he use epic progression for rogue or finish 4 more levels of non-epic progression?

Epic rules can get a little confusing if you don't knnw what you're doing, espicially for multiclass.

You would continue with the 4 more rogue levels and get all the special abilities normally associated with it (DON'T take Rogue 20 though, it is a 100% dead level in epic).

However, your BAB and saves would follow the epic progression. You would only gain the "special" column from the rogue table.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nighttree 10-16-07, 10:30 PM	Had a bit of a "differance of opinion" regarding progression of PrC in relation to a base class. For this example let's say the character aquired their first level of the PrC at 6th level. Player takes 1st through 3rd level of the PrC (putting them at 9th level)......then chooses to take a level in the base class (at 10th level) before continuing with the PrC. Version #1: The character would take level 6 of the base class. Version #2: the character would take level 10 of the base class. Which is correct ???
Ninja_Ferret 10-16-07, 10:44 PM	The character would take level 6 of the base class. Say said character was a rogue and took assassin. his level would be rogue 5/ assassin 3. His next choice of classes is Assassin 4 or rogue 6.
Orenmir 10-16-07, 10:50 PM	If you take a PrC at level 6, you will only have 5 levels of the original base class - because at 6th level you took a new class. I'm not quite sure what your question is. Let's try to make this more concrete... For your first 5 levels, you take Monk = Monk 5 (5 class levels). The next 3 levels, you take Kensai = Monk 5 / Kensai 3 (8 class levels). Then you take another level of Monk = Monk 6 / Kensai 3 (9 class levels). Then continue with Kensai another level = Monk 6 / Kensai 4 (10 class levels). What's so hard about this?
StevenO 10-16-07, 11:21 PM	Classes only advance one level at a time. Consider what would happen if "Version #2: the character would take level 10 of the base class." were true. That would imply that going back to a class after advancing another would let me double up on all those other levels. Also, if this were true what would happen if there next level went back into the PrC or something new; would it set that class up to level 11?
vorpo 10-16-07, 11:30 PM	I think he's mixed up with character lvl (clvl) and class lvl. Clvls are the total lvls of all your classes (base and PrCs). (I am leaving LA out of this for simplicity's sake) class lvls are simply the lvls you have in a given class. Orenmir has made that clearer with his example. (tho he's mistaken with the use of the term "class level", it should have been "character level" Using Orenmir's example, A monk 5/kensai 3 is at clvl 8 but is a lvl 5 monk AND a lvl 3 kensai. So when you advance a level, you either choose to advance the "class level" of monk or kensai. If you advance monk, you'd be a 6th level monk (monk 6/kensai 3); if you advance kensai, you'd be a 4th level kensai (monk 5/kensai 4). Either way, you CHARACTER level would be 9th.
nighttree 10-17-07, 12:19 AM	I think what he is attempting is to "by pass" abilities that he is not interested in (from the base class), but still get the abilities he IS interested in by taking a level in the base class when they fall by skipping a level of the PrC.
vorpo 10-17-07, 12:24 AM	I think what he is attempting is to "by pass" abilities that he is not interested in (from the base class), but still get the abilities he IS interested in by taking a level in the base class when they fall by skipping a level of the PrC. Definitely CANNOT then. You have to go through class levels one by one. Your character level has no bearing whatsoever toward class levels (but the opposite isn't true: class level has everything to do with character level) Simply consider this, you are a wiz 5/acolyte of the skin 3 (AotS gives +1 spellcasting at even levels, so it gives this character spellcasting ability of wiz 6). So you can cast up to 3rd level spells Being a clvl 8 character, you then advance to clvl 9. Does it make sense if your 9th clvl is taken as a wiz 10 which gives you the ability to cast 5th level spells? Absolutely not.
Operation_Shoestring 10-17-07, 02:57 AM	You know, i was going to ask a similar question. When my rogue 16/swash3/EWM1 goes epic, and decides to continue gaining rogue levels, does he use epic progression for rogue or finish 4 more levels of non-epic progression?
bkdubs123 10-17-07, 04:12 AM	ugh... well the rules are super sketchy when you go epic, but you would have to take 4 more levels of rogue in order to get an "epic progression" of rogue HOWEVER you would have to abide by "epic rules" since you are a 21st level character now.
goawayugh 10-17-07, 08:17 AM	You know, i was going to ask a similar question. When my rogue 16/swash3/EWM1 goes epic, and decides to continue gaining rogue levels, does he use epic progression for rogue or finish 4 more levels of non-epic progression? Epic rules can get a little confusing if you don't knnw what you're doing, espicially for multiclass. You would continue with the 4 more rogue levels and get all the special abilities normally associated with it (DON'T take Rogue 20 though, it is a 100% dead level in epic). However, your BAB and saves would follow the epic progression. You would only gain the "special" column from the rogue table.