Help with cleric and barb PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with cleric and barb PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
schlitz1231
09-05-07, 11:24 PM Hi, may i ask for suggestions for PrC's for my two friends? Our party consists of a cleric, barb, ranger(going towards tempest), assasin, and ultimate magus (sorc or beguiler + wiz). We're currently level7, and have been given the chance to fix our characters, i.e. change class/race/feats/etc. the other three party members are more or less fixed, but suggestions for the other party members would be appreciated as well.

First, my dwarven cleric friend is looking for a PrC that would fit him. Basically he would prefer a fighter cleric build but if possible, full spell casting progression as well. Also, alignment is any non-evil.

Second, for the barb, actually anything that would fit with whirlwind attack.

Thanks!
dman11235
09-06-07, 12:16 AM hmm, for a melee cleric, do NOT be sucked into warpriest. There is a nice spell called divine power that gives you full BAB, so it is really, really not worth it. Suprisingly enoguh, even the PrCs with poor BAB, like contemplative and divine oracle, would be good, due to divine power. And the HD size loss would be partially negated by divine power and righteous might. But also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with straight cleric for a melee build, unless there is a PrC out there that is good and I don't know about. There may be a good one is Races of Stone, so check that out.

As for the barbarian, I need more info. If he will be using whirlwind attack and only whirlwind attack, then War Hulk from Miniatures Handbook would be nice. If he wants to use iterative attacks, do not take it, as it has no BAB. If he meets the prereqs, warshaper would not be bad.

EDIT: never mind, there's really nothing from there.
schlitz1231
09-06-07, 01:11 AM Il try to look into the war hulk and warshaper. Basically the barb likes to make us of whirlwind/cleave, something like splash melee damage. currently, he took 2 levels of fighter to gain addtional feats to get whirlwind attack. He's a half-orc barb/fighter (can still be changed, but i think he would want to still be able to use the whirlwind) is there by some chance a PrC requiring whirlwind atak? hehe.. but if it is really not viable, any suggestions for a good barb PrC?

is going straight cleric is really that good for the melee cleric? i just though that maybe it would be nice if he had additional special abilities coupled with the same cleric spell progression.
bkdubs123
09-06-07, 01:15 AM Contemplative is nice for the bonus domains and Monk-like selfperfection abilities it gives. Sure it lowers your HD and your BAB, but like said above, Divine Power, Righteous Might and a little Divine Metamagic and you're set to Melee all day.
dman11235
09-06-07, 01:23 AM And you don't even need divine metamagic, just grab metamagic rods of quicken. Of course, having quicken spell and divine metamagic quicken can be useful. So can persist. I'm just glad someone else realizes the awesomeness of contemplative. Oh, and a couple levels of divine oracle for the evasion that works in heavy armor.

War hulk is highly not recomended for anything but fighting large groups of enemies and using whirlwind attack. By the end of the PrC you gain +20 strength, but the lack of BAB kills. One really great PrC that doesn't use whirlwind is bear warrior (CW). This qualifies you for warshaper, btw. There aren't many for whirlwind attack, besides war hulk (has that as a prereq.), and for a good reason. Unless you fight a lot of enemies, like you would in a miniatures campaign, then whirlwind attack is not worth it.
Templario
09-06-07, 07:40 AM The god the dwarf worships... does he has the War domain?
serow_#R
09-06-07, 09:42 AM For the cleric: Ordained Champion, or Fist of Raziel are both quite decent matches.
For the barb: maybe getting Pounce might be a fun idea?
schlitz1231
09-06-07, 10:55 AM The god the dwarf worships... does he has the War domain?

our DM doesnt allow the cleric to choose deities, he only has the alignment domains available to him.
schlitz1231
09-06-07, 11:07 AM For the barb, bear warrior/warshaper seems good, one thing I'm confused about the bear warrior, is that how many times can he change form? Is it limited to the number of times he can rage or is it limited by the number of times per day as written? I browsed through it abit. Also saw the Eye of Grummsh, I think its a nice PrC too based from its features, has anyone tried this PrC?

Will have to browse the books for the cleric PrC's.. hehehe.. thanks!
dman11235
09-06-07, 12:40 PM It's limited by rage. The errata covered that. Also, might try fist of the forest from complete champion. Three levels, some nice stuff from it, including con to AC. I'm currently starting at level 2 a barbarian 4/FotF 3/bear warrior 1/warshaper 3/bearwarrior 9. It will be fun with my >50 strength at level 20.
imakuni67
09-07-07, 09:49 AM with whirlwind attack and weapon focus you can go for weapon master. I'm working on a 3.5 revision right now
schlitz1231
09-07-07, 12:30 PM It's limited by rage. The errata covered that. Also, might try fist of the forest from complete champion. Three levels, some nice stuff from it, including con to AC. I'm currently starting at level 2 a barbarian 4/FotF 3/bear warrior 1/warshaper 3/bearwarrior 9. It will be fun with my >50 strength at level 20.

Oh, i see.. Did not know of the errata. Thanks! Btw, >50 is awesome! hehe.. We don't have the complete champion book though, would consider asking about the bear warrior. hehe
schlitz1231
09-07-07, 12:33 PM with whirlwind attack and weapon focus you can go for weapon master. I'm working on a 3.5 revision right now

So the weapon master is a custom class? If possible we would like to stick with the books we currently have, since we're still relatively new to D&D.. Still, thanks for the suggestion! :D
schlitz1231
09-07-07, 12:36 PM Now, actually I'm also having a dilemma with my PrC, well even with my base class! I'm the mage in the party, UM supposedly, but the DM is allowing me to change if i want to, last chance to change. hehehe.. Im looking at beguiler or sorc for base class, as for PrC, for sorc im thinking initiate of the 7fold veil and/or archmage, as for beguiler, im new to it, but i really like its class abilities especially the fact that it automatically knows all of its spells in its list, as well as being spontaneous caster.. What do you guys think?
dman11235
09-07-07, 12:39 PM It's a class from a 3.0 book, but he's updated it. Since you're new, I'd probably not use it. Barbarians don't nessecarily need to go into PrCs, as the stuff they get from their class is not bad. For bear warrior, take barbarian 7 (you just get damage reduction at that point, not much, but it can come in handy) and then start with bear warrior. Either take 1, 5, or 10 levels in it (the times you get a bear form) and then warshaper, and then finish out bear warrior.

If you need the link to the Errata, I have it in my sig, along with a bunch of other useful links.

EDIT: responding to your new post.

What alignment are you? How about the party? Can the party handle heavy roleplaying? I'm thinking you may want to check out the Book of Exalted Deeds.
dman11235
09-07-07, 12:45 PM Oh, and you may want to check out the UA variants for barbarian (they can be found in the SRD under variant classes, check out the sig) for some fun new ways to enjoy the barbarian. Bear totem grant great fortitude as a bonus feat, toughness, improved grapple, and a +4 bonus on grapple while raging.
The_Shaman
09-07-07, 08:12 PM Cleric: normal cleric or any full-progression PrC is good imo. I'd suggest the Divine Disciple for standard goodness (except for the TU progression). The Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is also quite nice, if a bit strange.

Barbarian: one (strange) option is to go for a few Psychic Warrior levels and aim for Psychic Weapon Master - eventually, it allows you to get Whirlwind attack for free or do it more quickly. It's a nice PC, but requires you to have an okay wisdom to make use of all the abilities. You can find it in an online article here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d). Apart from it, my best bid would be the Runescarred Berserker from Unapproachable East. However, Barbarians do fine without any prestige classes at all, so the barb will be safe no matter what. Actually, unless he's grapple-crazy, bear warrior would not be among the best choices imo.
schlitz1231
09-07-07, 11:15 PM It's a class from a 3.0 book, but he's updated it. Since you're new, I'd probably not use it. Barbarians don't nessecarily need to go into PrCs, as the stuff they get from their class is not bad. For bear warrior, take barbarian 7 (you just get damage reduction at that point, not much, but it can come in handy) and then start with bear warrior. Either take 1, 5, or 10 levels in it (the times you get a bear form) and then warshaper, and then finish out bear warrior.

If you need the link to the Errata, I have it in my sig, along with a bunch of other useful links.

Oh i see.. Sorry about that imakuni67, i thought it was a custom class you made. :D I guess both barb and cleric don't really need a PrC? Well, I guess it just seems cool with the names/benefits of the PrC's. hehehe.

EDIT: responding to your new post.

What alignment are you? How about the party? Can the party handle heavy roleplaying? I'm thinking you may want to check out the Book of Exalted Deeds.

I'm chaotic evil mage, ___ evil assasin, chaotic neutral barb, ____ good cleric, and ____ neutral ranger. Sorry for the blanks, I'm not really familiar with the alignment of the other party members. As for heavy roleplaying, I don't think we could handle heavy roleplaying.
dman11235
09-07-07, 11:25 PM Dang. And you're evil. Why does everyone play evil? When good is so......good? Eh, not my choice. Well, forget about BoED. <tangent> some newcomers can handle the mechanics well (like me), and others the RPing. I have yet to see someone who's good at both right from the start. And some people start playing because of the RPing.<end tangent>

At least you're chaotic. Take a look at wildmage (CArcane). A couple worthless prereqs for some really nice abilities. And arch mage is a MUST. It's just so useful. The best part is: sorcerer 5 wild mage 10 arch mage 5

For beguiler, I'd suggest straight. The SR overcome-y-ness is fun.
schlitz1231
09-07-07, 11:42 PM I was actually chaotic neutral at the start, but changed to evil as part of the story. And thanks for the sorc/beguiler suggestions! But which do you think would be better to choose? sorc or beguiler?
dman11235
09-08-07, 12:02 AM Personally, sorcerer. But beguilers are fun (apparently, I have never played one). And your party probably doesn't need another sneaky guy.
NobodyRemembersThis
09-08-07, 12:15 AM It's limited by rage. The errata covered that. Also, might try fist of the forest from complete champion. Three levels, some nice stuff from it, including con to AC. I'm currently starting at level 2 a barbarian 4/FotF 3/bear warrior 1/warshaper 3/bearwarrior 9. It will be fun with my >50 strength at level 20.source on the errata? Or do you mean Sage Advice/FAQ? FAQ /= Errata.
dman11235
09-08-07, 01:09 AM I'm aware that FAQ/= errata. It was in the Errata. I am checking it again now, but I'm pretty sure.

EDIT: Yup, it's definitely right there in the complete warrior errata.
NobodyRemembersThis
09-08-07, 11:16 AM Ok then. :)
The_Shaman
09-08-07, 01:56 PM If you're playing in FR, incantatrix is arguably more useful than chaos mage.
dman11235
09-08-07, 02:05 PM What book is that from? This is the second time I've heard that PrC mentioned.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
schlitz1231 09-05-07, 11:24 PM	Hi, may i ask for suggestions for PrC's for my two friends? Our party consists of a cleric, barb, ranger(going towards tempest), assasin, and ultimate magus (sorc or beguiler + wiz). We're currently level7, and have been given the chance to fix our characters, i.e. change class/race/feats/etc. the other three party members are more or less fixed, but suggestions for the other party members would be appreciated as well. First, my dwarven cleric friend is looking for a PrC that would fit him. Basically he would prefer a fighter cleric build but if possible, full spell casting progression as well. Also, alignment is any non-evil. Second, for the barb, actually anything that would fit with whirlwind attack. Thanks!
dman11235 09-06-07, 12:16 AM	hmm, for a melee cleric, do NOT be sucked into warpriest. There is a nice spell called divine power that gives you full BAB, so it is really, really not worth it. Suprisingly enoguh, even the PrCs with poor BAB, like contemplative and divine oracle, would be good, due to divine power. And the HD size loss would be partially negated by divine power and righteous might. But also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with straight cleric for a melee build, unless there is a PrC out there that is good and I don't know about. There may be a good one is Races of Stone, so check that out. As for the barbarian, I need more info. If he will be using whirlwind attack and only whirlwind attack, then War Hulk from Miniatures Handbook would be nice. If he wants to use iterative attacks, do not take it, as it has no BAB. If he meets the prereqs, warshaper would not be bad. EDIT: never mind, there's really nothing from there.
schlitz1231 09-06-07, 01:11 AM	Il try to look into the war hulk and warshaper. Basically the barb likes to make us of whirlwind/cleave, something like splash melee damage. currently, he took 2 levels of fighter to gain addtional feats to get whirlwind attack. He's a half-orc barb/fighter (can still be changed, but i think he would want to still be able to use the whirlwind) is there by some chance a PrC requiring whirlwind atak? hehe.. but if it is really not viable, any suggestions for a good barb PrC? is going straight cleric is really that good for the melee cleric? i just though that maybe it would be nice if he had additional special abilities coupled with the same cleric spell progression.
bkdubs123 09-06-07, 01:15 AM	Contemplative is nice for the bonus domains and Monk-like selfperfection abilities it gives. Sure it lowers your HD and your BAB, but like said above, Divine Power, Righteous Might and a little Divine Metamagic and you're set to Melee all day.
dman11235 09-06-07, 01:23 AM	And you don't even need divine metamagic, just grab metamagic rods of quicken. Of course, having quicken spell and divine metamagic quicken can be useful. So can persist. I'm just glad someone else realizes the awesomeness of contemplative. Oh, and a couple levels of divine oracle for the evasion that works in heavy armor. War hulk is highly not recomended for anything but fighting large groups of enemies and using whirlwind attack. By the end of the PrC you gain +20 strength, but the lack of BAB kills. One really great PrC that doesn't use whirlwind is bear warrior (CW). This qualifies you for warshaper, btw. There aren't many for whirlwind attack, besides war hulk (has that as a prereq.), and for a good reason. Unless you fight a lot of enemies, like you would in a miniatures campaign, then whirlwind attack is not worth it.
Templario 09-06-07, 07:40 AM	The god the dwarf worships... does he has the War domain?
serow_#R 09-06-07, 09:42 AM	For the cleric: Ordained Champion, or Fist of Raziel are both quite decent matches. For the barb: maybe getting Pounce might be a fun idea?
schlitz1231 09-06-07, 10:55 AM	The god the dwarf worships... does he has the War domain? our DM doesnt allow the cleric to choose deities, he only has the alignment domains available to him.
schlitz1231 09-06-07, 11:07 AM	For the barb, bear warrior/warshaper seems good, one thing I'm confused about the bear warrior, is that how many times can he change form? Is it limited to the number of times he can rage or is it limited by the number of times per day as written? I browsed through it abit. Also saw the Eye of Grummsh, I think its a nice PrC too based from its features, has anyone tried this PrC? Will have to browse the books for the cleric PrC's.. hehehe.. thanks!
dman11235 09-06-07, 12:40 PM	It's limited by rage. The errata covered that. Also, might try fist of the forest from complete champion. Three levels, some nice stuff from it, including con to AC. I'm currently starting at level 2 a barbarian 4/FotF 3/bear warrior 1/warshaper 3/bearwarrior 9. It will be fun with my >50 strength at level 20.
imakuni67 09-07-07, 09:49 AM	with whirlwind attack and weapon focus you can go for weapon master. I'm working on a 3.5 revision right now
schlitz1231 09-07-07, 12:30 PM	It's limited by rage. The errata covered that. Also, might try fist of the forest from complete champion. Three levels, some nice stuff from it, including con to AC. I'm currently starting at level 2 a barbarian 4/FotF 3/bear warrior 1/warshaper 3/bearwarrior 9. It will be fun with my >50 strength at level 20. Oh, i see.. Did not know of the errata. Thanks! Btw, >50 is awesome! hehe.. We don't have the complete champion book though, would consider asking about the bear warrior. hehe
schlitz1231 09-07-07, 12:33 PM	with whirlwind attack and weapon focus you can go for weapon master. I'm working on a 3.5 revision right now So the weapon master is a custom class? If possible we would like to stick with the books we currently have, since we're still relatively new to D&D.. Still, thanks for the suggestion! :D
schlitz1231 09-07-07, 12:36 PM	Now, actually I'm also having a dilemma with my PrC, well even with my base class! I'm the mage in the party, UM supposedly, but the DM is allowing me to change if i want to, last chance to change. hehehe.. Im looking at beguiler or sorc for base class, as for PrC, for sorc im thinking initiate of the 7fold veil and/or archmage, as for beguiler, im new to it, but i really like its class abilities especially the fact that it automatically knows all of its spells in its list, as well as being spontaneous caster.. What do you guys think?
dman11235 09-07-07, 12:39 PM	It's a class from a 3.0 book, but he's updated it. Since you're new, I'd probably not use it. Barbarians don't nessecarily need to go into PrCs, as the stuff they get from their class is not bad. For bear warrior, take barbarian 7 (you just get damage reduction at that point, not much, but it can come in handy) and then start with bear warrior. Either take 1, 5, or 10 levels in it (the times you get a bear form) and then warshaper, and then finish out bear warrior. If you need the link to the Errata, I have it in my sig, along with a bunch of other useful links. EDIT: responding to your new post. What alignment are you? How about the party? Can the party handle heavy roleplaying? I'm thinking you may want to check out the Book of Exalted Deeds.
dman11235 09-07-07, 12:45 PM	Oh, and you may want to check out the UA variants for barbarian (they can be found in the SRD under variant classes, check out the sig) for some fun new ways to enjoy the barbarian. Bear totem grant great fortitude as a bonus feat, toughness, improved grapple, and a +4 bonus on grapple while raging.
The_Shaman 09-07-07, 08:12 PM	Cleric: normal cleric or any full-progression PrC is good imo. I'd suggest the Divine Disciple for standard goodness (except for the TU progression). The Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is also quite nice, if a bit strange. Barbarian: one (strange) option is to go for a few Psychic Warrior levels and aim for Psychic Weapon Master - eventually, it allows you to get Whirlwind attack for free or do it more quickly. It's a nice PC, but requires you to have an okay wisdom to make use of all the abilities. You can find it in an online article here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d). Apart from it, my best bid would be the Runescarred Berserker from Unapproachable East. However, Barbarians do fine without any prestige classes at all, so the barb will be safe no matter what. Actually, unless he's grapple-crazy, bear warrior would not be among the best choices imo.
schlitz1231 09-07-07, 11:15 PM	It's a class from a 3.0 book, but he's updated it. Since you're new, I'd probably not use it. Barbarians don't nessecarily need to go into PrCs, as the stuff they get from their class is not bad. For bear warrior, take barbarian 7 (you just get damage reduction at that point, not much, but it can come in handy) and then start with bear warrior. Either take 1, 5, or 10 levels in it (the times you get a bear form) and then warshaper, and then finish out bear warrior. If you need the link to the Errata, I have it in my sig, along with a bunch of other useful links. Oh i see.. Sorry about that imakuni67, i thought it was a custom class you made. :D I guess both barb and cleric don't really need a PrC? Well, I guess it just seems cool with the names/benefits of the PrC's. hehehe. EDIT: responding to your new post. What alignment are you? How about the party? Can the party handle heavy roleplaying? I'm thinking you may want to check out the Book of Exalted Deeds. I'm chaotic evil mage, ___ evil assasin, chaotic neutral barb, ____ good cleric, and ____ neutral ranger. Sorry for the blanks, I'm not really familiar with the alignment of the other party members. As for heavy roleplaying, I don't think we could handle heavy roleplaying.
dman11235 09-07-07, 11:25 PM	Dang. And you're evil. Why does everyone play evil? When good is so......good? Eh, not my choice. Well, forget about BoED. <tangent> some newcomers can handle the mechanics well (like me), and others the RPing. I have yet to see someone who's good at both right from the start. And some people start playing because of the RPing.<end tangent> At least you're chaotic. Take a look at wildmage (CArcane). A couple worthless prereqs for some really nice abilities. And arch mage is a MUST. It's just so useful. The best part is: sorcerer 5 wild mage 10 arch mage 5 For beguiler, I'd suggest straight. The SR overcome-y-ness is fun.
schlitz1231 09-07-07, 11:42 PM	I was actually chaotic neutral at the start, but changed to evil as part of the story. And thanks for the sorc/beguiler suggestions! But which do you think would be better to choose? sorc or beguiler?
dman11235 09-08-07, 12:02 AM	Personally, sorcerer. But beguilers are fun (apparently, I have never played one). And your party probably doesn't need another sneaky guy.
NobodyRemembersThis 09-08-07, 12:15 AM	It's limited by rage. The errata covered that. Also, might try fist of the forest from complete champion. Three levels, some nice stuff from it, including con to AC. I'm currently starting at level 2 a barbarian 4/FotF 3/bear warrior 1/warshaper 3/bearwarrior 9. It will be fun with my >50 strength at level 20.source on the errata? Or do you mean Sage Advice/FAQ? FAQ /= Errata.
dman11235 09-08-07, 01:09 AM	I'm aware that FAQ/= errata. It was in the Errata. I am checking it again now, but I'm pretty sure. EDIT: Yup, it's definitely right there in the complete warrior errata.
NobodyRemembersThis 09-08-07, 11:16 AM	Ok then. :)
The_Shaman 09-08-07, 01:56 PM	If you're playing in FR, incantatrix is arguably more useful than chaos mage.
dman11235 09-08-07, 02:05 PM	What book is that from? This is the second time I've heard that PrC mentioned.