Help with Hellbreaker "Steal Supernatural Ability" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with Hellbreaker "Steal Supernatural Ability" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kingrthr3
01-05-08, 06:44 PM I'm having problems with the Hellbreaker PrC (FC2:Tyrants) and its ability, "Steal Supernatural Ability". The ability says that it "functions like the steal spell-like ability class feature" from earlier levels of the class, and doesn't really go further into mechanics. My problem is, the Steal Spell-Like Ability class feature has a lot of things about it that don't translate at all to stealing Supernatural abilities such as spell level, activation, use limits, et cetera.

1) Steal spell-like ability says the stolen ability can be of any spell level up to a maximum of 1/2 your class level. Supernatural abilities usually don't have a 'spell level', does this mean you can steal any Supernatural ability?

2) When you steal an "always-on" supernatural ability, does it activate on you immediately, and last for the full 1 minute? When you steal an ability that requires an action to use, does it go away after 1 use?

3) If you steal a Supernatural ability that the monster's description says is dependant upon equipment or body type, how does that apply to you?

Using the Horned Devil/Cornugon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) as an example, what would happen if you stole:
a) its Damage reduction (I assume it would apply to the Hellbreaker for 1 minute)
b) its Stun ability (Would you gain the ability with whatever weapon you wielded? Would it apply for 1 hit or for a full minute?)
c) its Infernal Wound ability (Assuming the Hellbreaker doesn't have a tail, is there any way for him to use this?)
Sinfire Titan
01-06-08, 01:43 AM I'm having problems with the Hellbreaker PrC (FC2:Tyrants) and its ability, "Steal Supernatural Ability". The ability says that it "functions like the steal spell-like ability class feature" from earlier levels of the class, and doesn't really go further into mechanics. My problem is, the Steal Spell-Like Ability class feature has a lot of things about it that don't translate at all to stealing Supernatural abilities such as spell level, activation, use limits, et cetera.

1) Steal spell-like ability says the stolen ability can be of any spell level up to a maximum of 1/2 your class level. Supernatural abilities usually don't have a 'spell level', does this mean you can steal any Supernatural ability?

2) When you steal an "always-on" supernatural ability, does it activate on you immediately, and last for the full 1 minute? When you steal an ability that requires an action to use, does it go away after 1 use?

3) If you steal a Supernatural ability that the monster's description says is dependant upon equipment or body type, how does that apply to you?

Using the Horned Devil/Cornugon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) as an example, what would happen if you stole:
a) its Damage reduction (I assume it would apply to the Hellbreaker for 1 minute)
b) its Stun ability (Would you gain the ability with whatever weapon you wielded? Would it apply for 1 hit or for a full minute?)
c) its Infernal Wound ability (Assuming the Hellbreaker doesn't have a tail, is there any way for him to use this?)

A: Yes. Stealing DR that is Supernatural is fully legal. Most Supernatural abilities are assumed to have an equivalent Spell Level of 1/2 the base creature's HD. Some exceptions may occur.

B: In the example provided, the text clearly states if it hits with it's spiked chain attack. If the Hellbreaker doesn't have a spiked chain to attack with, the ability is merely stolen. This is a general tactic of Hellbreaker PCs, which actively denies an enemy of some of their own techniques.

C: Stealing an Always active ability that you can't use renders it inert until either the Hellbreaker uses it (if limited in uses/day), or until one minute has passed. Whichever comes first. Typically, stealing an ability you can't use is more of denying them the ability itself. It then becomes a game of 'chicken', seeing how long the party can survive against the creature if it has lost that ability.
kingrthr3
01-06-08, 02:34 PM Most Supernatural abilities are assumed to have an equivalent Spell Level of 1/2 the base creature's HD. Some exceptions may occur.
Can you point out where in the books that's mentioned? I can't find it.

So a Hellbreaker can only steal Supernatural abilities from a creature with HD less than or equal to his class level? (Max spell level stolen = 1/2 class level)
Dracosis
01-06-08, 02:51 PM Page 315 of the Monster manual gives the details on Supernatural abilities. But it doesn't say that a supernatural ability is spell level = half the creatures hit dice, however it does say that the saving throw is 1/2 the creatures hit dice + ability score mod + 10 so we could infer from that the spell level of the supernatural ability.
Sinfire Titan
01-06-08, 09:21 PM Can you point out where in the books that's mentioned? I can't find it.

So a Hellbreaker can only steal Supernatural abilities from a creature with HD less than or equal to his class level? (Max spell level stolen = 1/2 class level)

Yes. I believe it was in the ToM. Not sure though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kingrthr3 01-05-08, 06:44 PM	I'm having problems with the Hellbreaker PrC (FC2:Tyrants) and its ability, "Steal Supernatural Ability". The ability says that it "functions like the steal spell-like ability class feature" from earlier levels of the class, and doesn't really go further into mechanics. My problem is, the Steal Spell-Like Ability class feature has a lot of things about it that don't translate at all to stealing Supernatural abilities such as spell level, activation, use limits, et cetera. 1) Steal spell-like ability says the stolen ability can be of any spell level up to a maximum of 1/2 your class level. Supernatural abilities usually don't have a 'spell level', does this mean you can steal any Supernatural ability? 2) When you steal an "always-on" supernatural ability, does it activate on you immediately, and last for the full 1 minute? When you steal an ability that requires an action to use, does it go away after 1 use? 3) If you steal a Supernatural ability that the monster's description says is dependant upon equipment or body type, how does that apply to you? Using the Horned Devil/Cornugon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) as an example, what would happen if you stole: a) its Damage reduction (I assume it would apply to the Hellbreaker for 1 minute) b) its Stun ability (Would you gain the ability with whatever weapon you wielded? Would it apply for 1 hit or for a full minute?) c) its Infernal Wound ability (Assuming the Hellbreaker doesn't have a tail, is there any way for him to use this?)
Sinfire Titan 01-06-08, 01:43 AM	I'm having problems with the Hellbreaker PrC (FC2:Tyrants) and its ability, "Steal Supernatural Ability". The ability says that it "functions like the steal spell-like ability class feature" from earlier levels of the class, and doesn't really go further into mechanics. My problem is, the Steal Spell-Like Ability class feature has a lot of things about it that don't translate at all to stealing Supernatural abilities such as spell level, activation, use limits, et cetera. 1) Steal spell-like ability says the stolen ability can be of any spell level up to a maximum of 1/2 your class level. Supernatural abilities usually don't have a 'spell level', does this mean you can steal any Supernatural ability? 2) When you steal an "always-on" supernatural ability, does it activate on you immediately, and last for the full 1 minute? When you steal an ability that requires an action to use, does it go away after 1 use? 3) If you steal a Supernatural ability that the monster's description says is dependant upon equipment or body type, how does that apply to you? Using the Horned Devil/Cornugon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) as an example, what would happen if you stole: a) its Damage reduction (I assume it would apply to the Hellbreaker for 1 minute) b) its Stun ability (Would you gain the ability with whatever weapon you wielded? Would it apply for 1 hit or for a full minute?) c) its Infernal Wound ability (Assuming the Hellbreaker doesn't have a tail, is there any way for him to use this?) A: Yes. Stealing DR that is Supernatural is fully legal. Most Supernatural abilities are assumed to have an equivalent Spell Level of 1/2 the base creature's HD. Some exceptions may occur. B: In the example provided, the text clearly states if it hits with it's spiked chain attack. If the Hellbreaker doesn't have a spiked chain to attack with, the ability is merely stolen. This is a general tactic of Hellbreaker PCs, which actively denies an enemy of some of their own techniques. C: Stealing an Always active ability that you can't use renders it inert until either the Hellbreaker uses it (if limited in uses/day), or until one minute has passed. Whichever comes first. Typically, stealing an ability you can't use is more of denying them the ability itself. It then becomes a game of 'chicken', seeing how long the party can survive against the creature if it has lost that ability.
kingrthr3 01-06-08, 02:34 PM	Most Supernatural abilities are assumed to have an equivalent Spell Level of 1/2 the base creature's HD. Some exceptions may occur. Can you point out where in the books that's mentioned? I can't find it. So a Hellbreaker can only steal Supernatural abilities from a creature with HD less than or equal to his class level? (Max spell level stolen = 1/2 class level)
Dracosis 01-06-08, 02:51 PM	Page 315 of the Monster manual gives the details on Supernatural abilities. But it doesn't say that a supernatural ability is spell level = half the creatures hit dice, however it does say that the saving throw is 1/2 the creatures hit dice + ability score mod + 10 so we could infer from that the spell level of the supernatural ability.
Sinfire Titan 01-06-08, 09:21 PM	Can you point out where in the books that's mentioned? I can't find it. So a Hellbreaker can only steal Supernatural abilities from a creature with HD less than or equal to his class level? (Max spell level stolen = 1/2 class level) Yes. I believe it was in the ToM. Not sure though.