Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: Please help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: Please help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Schwarg
03-19-08, 04:59 PM Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: 10 level prestige class

Focused on bringing the end of civilization and the world, a horseman of the apocolypse brings with him the four aspects of evil outlined in Revelations.

Prerequisites:
3nd level divine spells
special mount
smite good
atleast two domains of domination, war, pestulance, or death

HD 10
BAB Fighter
Spell level progression as cleric, skipping every other 5th
Bonus domain 5th and 10th level (must be one of the four domains listed above)
Paladin special abilities continue to progress: smite good, special mount, lay on hands, etc.

Is this balanced?
nagasaki
03-20-08, 12:38 PM what does "skipping every other 5" mean? Well It seems both underpowered and bland.

How do you get into this PrC? you need to be a cleric 8 blackguard 5 to get into it and then you are level 13 with a 10 level PRC that gives you paladin things and 2 domains.
Schwarg
03-21-08, 02:39 PM How would you make it balanced and not bland? The idea of having 4 domains is key. A rider key. I was thinking Paladin of Tyranny but not making special mount a prerequisite so spell casting is better. D12 might make it stronger. What say you?
Prince_of_Parkness
03-21-08, 03:45 PM How would you make it balanced and not bland? The idea of having 4 domains is key. A rider key. I was thinking Paladin of Tyranny but not making special mount a prerequisite so spell casting is better. D12 might make it stronger. What say you?

Generally people don't like prestige classes that just mix 2 class abilities. They where in core (eldritch knight mainly) but have been replaced by better PrC in splat books that alot better than a toned down version of gestalting a X and Y.

I dont have revelations, but I'm sure I can try and cobble together something to fir the brief flush description.

Preq: +5 base attack bonus (just to be safe), smite good at least once perday, atleast two domains of domination, war, pestulance, or death
1d10 hit die

1. Class levels stack to determine any former paladin class abilitites including spell casting abilities, Mount of ther 1st gate: mount gains fiendish template, glare of oblivion: +1/2 class level on intimidation checks, intimidate as a swift action at -10 penalty
2. alter person at will
3. minor plague: call upon the first 3 plagues of Astentof (Egypte)
4. may supress their paladin aura to each round atempt to either shift the attitude of everyone within 20ft to friendly or to demoralize them (both at a -10 penalty)
5.bonus domain
6. Major plague: next 3
7. Stead of oblivion: fiendish template upgraded to half fiend
8. See your death: Intimiadated oppoenents see their own deaths and become frightened for 1 round
9. Dark Grace: May suspend affect of devine grace to instead gain +1 per point of Char mod (max +5) to AC and attack bonus
10. bonus domain, Dark plague (last 3)

Plagues (may use maximum 2 plagues per day): 1st: Spend 1 hp of lay on hands to turn 10 cubic feat of water into blood. Emursion takes 1d2 acid damage, drinking 2d4 plus fort save or be naudisted
2nd:
3rd.
4th.
5th. Creeping doom, but cannot control summoned swarms (dont attack rider however)
6th.
7th. Utterdark spell (BoVD)
8th. Storm of vengance
9th. All good creatures within 60ft affected by trap soul

(might have messed up the order)

Maybe something like that
IdleAltruism
03-21-08, 03:51 PM Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: 10 level prestige class

Focused on bringing the end of civilization and the world, a horseman of the apocolypse brings with him the four aspects of evil outlined in Revelations.

How exactly does your PrC accomplish this?

Prerequisites:
3nd level divine spells
special mount
smite good
atleast two domains of domination, war, pestulance, or death

To get into this class with core you need to be a paladin 5/ Cleric 1/Blackguard 5(you can swap blackguard and cleric levels around to get the 3rd level spells)

Core only you'd have to wait 11 levels to get into this sucker.Out of core you can take paladin of X 5, cleric 5. There might be other ways around this, but that is the basic route the PrC seems to suggest to go.

That kind of Pre-req combined with the horrible multiclassing make this PrC pretty terrible with just that.

HD 10
BAB Fighter
Spell level progression as cleric, skipping every other 5th
Bonus domain 5th and 10th level (must be one of the four domains listed above)
Paladin special abilities continue to progress: smite good, special mount, lay on hands, etc.

Is this balanced?

Well you don't even have their saves or skills. Tbh it looks like a failed attempt at combining paladin and cleric.....Merging classes with PrCs is hard work, look at the numerous failures of WoTC for example(mystic theurge etc).

Cleric and paladin are already really close. Both are divine characters one that focuses in combat the other in spells. What is the point of merging them? Its kind of like merging a Druid and ranger or a fighter and barbarian, you really shouldn't have to.

How would you make it balanced and not bland? The idea of having 4 domains is key. A rider key. I was thinking Paladin of Tyranny but not making special mount a prerequisite so spell casting is better. D12 might make it stronger. What say you?

When making a PrC I suggest going for a theme, not a progression of another class. If you want a horseman of the apocalypse go for that. Give them unique special abilities based on that. This PrC doesn't really make someone who goes in it a horseman of the apocalypse, it just gives them more domains and somehow advances paladin abilities. An 11th level paladin of slaughter with cause disease and a special mount is more a bringer of the apocalypse than this class.

My suggestion is to start from scratch. Scrap this and really try and focus on what aspects of the horsemen you want to portray through this class. What exactly can a member of this class do that makes it unique? Get the ideas first, then create them.

Also when making pre-reqs again try and focus on what they'd actually need to get into a class that allows them to bring forth apocalypse. Special mount is nice, but why would someone trying to be a member of this class need a paladins special mount? Why limit it to only paladins? Is there a special reason for this? Why wouldn't the class itself give a special mount if it really needed one?

Sometimes making pre-reqs that only one class can achieve works, but generally you want to try and make the class available to a broader selection.
Look at the Fochlucan lyrist for example. The class is decent, but the pre-reqs are crazy and its difficult to finish the class pre-epic, which is a bad thing. Specialized classes like that can work, but I suggest making most PrCs entry requirements at a maximum of 7th level(some specialty PrCs like archmage can take longer), but for a level 10 PrC levels 5-7 are good entry points.

The class has no abilities of its own atm. Its just stealing base class abilities which is pretty boring.
Schwarg
03-22-08, 12:49 PM How 'bout this:

Horseman of the Apocalypse
Prerequisite
special mount
Petulance and war domains
3rd level divine spells
knowledge (divine) 10 ranks

Summary
A horseman of the apocalypse is a priest dedicated to bringing down the order of good in every aspect through the four greatest means necessary: war, famine, death, and conquest.

Description
This priest rides on an evil steed and eventually the image and the reputation of rider and mount become synonymous with all that is evil.

HD 12D
BAB As cleric
Spell Progression As cleric
5th and 10th level death and conquest domains, respectfully
2nd level- weapon specialization great sword (aspect of war)
4th level- some disease spell TBD (aspect of petulance)
6th level- harm once per day (aspect of death)
8th level- dominate monster, mass (aspect of conquest)
Also, HotA continues special mount, smite good, undead turning/rebuking, LoH, and cause disease.

This gives a 20th level character 15th spell like ability, decent combat abilities, and awesome character flair devoted to the four aspects of the apocalypse.
IdleAltruism
03-22-08, 03:46 PM How 'bout this:

Horseman of the Apocalypse
Prerequisite
special mount
Petulance and war domains
3rd level divine spells
knowledge (divine) 10 ranks

You didn't change anything, besides the requirement for smite....This still requires 5 levels of paladin and 5 levels of cleric...Those requirements right there make it bad. Take paladin or cleric out of the picture...it doesn't need both. Pick one focus on it. Is a horseman of the apocalypse a spellcaster or a frontliner?

HD 12D
BAB As cleric
Spell Progression As cleric
5th and 10th level death and conquest domains, respectfully
2nd level- weapon specialization great sword (aspect of war)
4th level- some disease spell TBD (aspect of petulance)
6th level- harm once per day (aspect of death)
8th level- dominate monster, mass (aspect of conquest)
Also, HotA continues special mount, smite good, undead turning/rebuking, LoH, and cause disease.

You didn't change anything...you just added a couple of spell-like abilities.
You basically advance every paladin ability with cleric spellcasting...

This gives a 20th level character 15th spell like ability, decent combat abilities, and awesome character flair devoted to the four aspects of the apocalypse.

You could have this flair and a better character by not entering this class. Its still very vanilla. Its not doing anything a cleric couldn't already do(except advance paladin abilities, which you should get rid of.)

Uniqueness, thats your goal! Try and make something special, something new, something fun to play! Get away from X/day abilities and advancing old abilities. Those can be useful and can be part of good PrCs, but your concept doesn't need them!

My suggestion, make a stand alone PrC. Forget the cleric/paladin, it seems to be hindering the process.
Schwarg
03-23-08, 01:48 PM The core flair I want is a cleric with those four domains and rides a special mount. With each domain progression, a special ability would be cool I thought. What else could I do? I want this prestige class to add uniquiness but not make it too lame in melee. I also don't want to lose to much in spell casting. What do you suggest?
IdleAltruism
03-23-08, 03:40 PM The way you describe what you want, it sounds like playing the good old cleric would be fine. Buying or taking the leadership to obtain a special mount would work. Clerics can make excellent melee combatants and you can always prepare nasty disease spreading spells and control an undead army of your own.

A horseman of the apocalypse sounds to me like a race rather than a class, but if you really want to make a PrC I wouldn't make it a spellcaster(for some reason they seem more like melee characters than casters)

My suggestion for a cleric type PrC is to look at the Ordained Champion(CC), Fist of raziel(Boed), and the sacred exorcist(CD) for examples of decent cleric PrCs(the last two being kind of high on the power scale.) They're good bases for Melee oriented cleric classes with some nifty abilities(the exorcist grant domains)
Schwarg
03-24-08, 12:25 AM What about making it a class in itself, 20 levels? Instead of the prerequisites, there would be better ways of adding the flair I want. It is core to have 9th level casting for the four domain theme I want. I was thinking of maybe apocalyptic aura like dragon aura from dragon shaman. Maybe a spell progression a tad slower or a limited spell list focused on spells that are tied to each aspect of the four horsemen. I don't know why I'm set on the domains as my foundation of the build but it is.
teshen
03-24-08, 01:20 PM Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: 10 level prestige class

Focused on bringing the end of civilization and the world, a horseman of the apocolypse brings with him the four aspects of evil outlined in Revelations. . . Ok... I'm stuck on the evil thing.

The four horsemen are symbolic of a whole lot of bad circumstance that happen in the last days... And there is the rider of the white horse who wears a crown and conquers... The horsemen represent the chaos and destruction that paves the way for a new society to replace the wicked and corrupt one of before. As such, it's more like a natural wild fire that makes way for new growth... or at least that's how I've always understood it.

Of course, you probably think I'm a screwball now...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Schwarg 03-19-08, 04:59 PM	Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: 10 level prestige class Focused on bringing the end of civilization and the world, a horseman of the apocolypse brings with him the four aspects of evil outlined in Revelations. Prerequisites: 3nd level divine spells special mount smite good atleast two domains of domination, war, pestulance, or death HD 10 BAB Fighter Spell level progression as cleric, skipping every other 5th Bonus domain 5th and 10th level (must be one of the four domains listed above) Paladin special abilities continue to progress: smite good, special mount, lay on hands, etc. Is this balanced?
nagasaki 03-20-08, 12:38 PM	what does "skipping every other 5" mean? Well It seems both underpowered and bland. How do you get into this PrC? you need to be a cleric 8 blackguard 5 to get into it and then you are level 13 with a 10 level PRC that gives you paladin things and 2 domains.
Schwarg 03-21-08, 02:39 PM	How would you make it balanced and not bland? The idea of having 4 domains is key. A rider key. I was thinking Paladin of Tyranny but not making special mount a prerequisite so spell casting is better. D12 might make it stronger. What say you?
Prince_of_Parkness 03-21-08, 03:45 PM	How would you make it balanced and not bland? The idea of having 4 domains is key. A rider key. I was thinking Paladin of Tyranny but not making special mount a prerequisite so spell casting is better. D12 might make it stronger. What say you? Generally people don't like prestige classes that just mix 2 class abilities. They where in core (eldritch knight mainly) but have been replaced by better PrC in splat books that alot better than a toned down version of gestalting a X and Y. I dont have revelations, but I'm sure I can try and cobble together something to fir the brief flush description. Preq: +5 base attack bonus (just to be safe), smite good at least once perday, atleast two domains of domination, war, pestulance, or death 1d10 hit die 1. Class levels stack to determine any former paladin class abilitites including spell casting abilities, Mount of ther 1st gate: mount gains fiendish template, glare of oblivion: +1/2 class level on intimidation checks, intimidate as a swift action at -10 penalty 2. alter person at will 3. minor plague: call upon the first 3 plagues of Astentof (Egypte) 4. may supress their paladin aura to each round atempt to either shift the attitude of everyone within 20ft to friendly or to demoralize them (both at a -10 penalty) 5.bonus domain 6. Major plague: next 3 7. Stead of oblivion: fiendish template upgraded to half fiend 8. See your death: Intimiadated oppoenents see their own deaths and become frightened for 1 round 9. Dark Grace: May suspend affect of devine grace to instead gain +1 per point of Char mod (max +5) to AC and attack bonus 10. bonus domain, Dark plague (last 3) Plagues (may use maximum 2 plagues per day): 1st: Spend 1 hp of lay on hands to turn 10 cubic feat of water into blood. Emursion takes 1d2 acid damage, drinking 2d4 plus fort save or be naudisted 2nd: 3rd. 4th. 5th. Creeping doom, but cannot control summoned swarms (dont attack rider however) 6th. 7th. Utterdark spell (BoVD) 8th. Storm of vengance 9th. All good creatures within 60ft affected by trap soul (might have messed up the order) Maybe something like that
IdleAltruism 03-21-08, 03:51 PM	Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: 10 level prestige class Focused on bringing the end of civilization and the world, a horseman of the apocolypse brings with him the four aspects of evil outlined in Revelations. How exactly does your PrC accomplish this? Prerequisites: 3nd level divine spells special mount smite good atleast two domains of domination, war, pestulance, or death To get into this class with core you need to be a paladin 5/ Cleric 1/Blackguard 5(you can swap blackguard and cleric levels around to get the 3rd level spells) Core only you'd have to wait 11 levels to get into this sucker.Out of core you can take paladin of X 5, cleric 5. There might be other ways around this, but that is the basic route the PrC seems to suggest to go. That kind of Pre-req combined with the horrible multiclassing make this PrC pretty terrible with just that. HD 10 BAB Fighter Spell level progression as cleric, skipping every other 5th Bonus domain 5th and 10th level (must be one of the four domains listed above) Paladin special abilities continue to progress: smite good, special mount, lay on hands, etc. Is this balanced? Well you don't even have their saves or skills. Tbh it looks like a failed attempt at combining paladin and cleric.....Merging classes with PrCs is hard work, look at the numerous failures of WoTC for example(mystic theurge etc). Cleric and paladin are already really close. Both are divine characters one that focuses in combat the other in spells. What is the point of merging them? Its kind of like merging a Druid and ranger or a fighter and barbarian, you really shouldn't have to. How would you make it balanced and not bland? The idea of having 4 domains is key. A rider key. I was thinking Paladin of Tyranny but not making special mount a prerequisite so spell casting is better. D12 might make it stronger. What say you? When making a PrC I suggest going for a theme, not a progression of another class. If you want a horseman of the apocalypse go for that. Give them unique special abilities based on that. This PrC doesn't really make someone who goes in it a horseman of the apocalypse, it just gives them more domains and somehow advances paladin abilities. An 11th level paladin of slaughter with cause disease and a special mount is more a bringer of the apocalypse than this class. My suggestion is to start from scratch. Scrap this and really try and focus on what aspects of the horsemen you want to portray through this class. What exactly can a member of this class do that makes it unique? Get the ideas first, then create them. Also when making pre-reqs again try and focus on what they'd actually need to get into a class that allows them to bring forth apocalypse. Special mount is nice, but why would someone trying to be a member of this class need a paladins special mount? Why limit it to only paladins? Is there a special reason for this? Why wouldn't the class itself give a special mount if it really needed one? Sometimes making pre-reqs that only one class can achieve works, but generally you want to try and make the class available to a broader selection. Look at the Fochlucan lyrist for example. The class is decent, but the pre-reqs are crazy and its difficult to finish the class pre-epic, which is a bad thing. Specialized classes like that can work, but I suggest making most PrCs entry requirements at a maximum of 7th level(some specialty PrCs like archmage can take longer), but for a level 10 PrC levels 5-7 are good entry points. The class has no abilities of its own atm. Its just stealing base class abilities which is pretty boring.
Schwarg 03-22-08, 12:49 PM	How 'bout this: Horseman of the Apocalypse Prerequisite special mount Petulance and war domains 3rd level divine spells knowledge (divine) 10 ranks Summary A horseman of the apocalypse is a priest dedicated to bringing down the order of good in every aspect through the four greatest means necessary: war, famine, death, and conquest. Description This priest rides on an evil steed and eventually the image and the reputation of rider and mount become synonymous with all that is evil. HD 12D BAB As cleric Spell Progression As cleric 5th and 10th level death and conquest domains, respectfully 2nd level- weapon specialization great sword (aspect of war) 4th level- some disease spell TBD (aspect of petulance) 6th level- harm once per day (aspect of death) 8th level- dominate monster, mass (aspect of conquest) Also, HotA continues special mount, smite good, undead turning/rebuking, LoH, and cause disease. This gives a 20th level character 15th spell like ability, decent combat abilities, and awesome character flair devoted to the four aspects of the apocalypse.
IdleAltruism 03-22-08, 03:46 PM	How 'bout this: Horseman of the Apocalypse Prerequisite special mount Petulance and war domains 3rd level divine spells knowledge (divine) 10 ranks You didn't change anything, besides the requirement for smite....This still requires 5 levels of paladin and 5 levels of cleric...Those requirements right there make it bad. Take paladin or cleric out of the picture...it doesn't need both. Pick one focus on it. Is a horseman of the apocalypse a spellcaster or a frontliner? HD 12D BAB As cleric Spell Progression As cleric 5th and 10th level death and conquest domains, respectfully 2nd level- weapon specialization great sword (aspect of war) 4th level- some disease spell TBD (aspect of petulance) 6th level- harm once per day (aspect of death) 8th level- dominate monster, mass (aspect of conquest) Also, HotA continues special mount, smite good, undead turning/rebuking, LoH, and cause disease. You didn't change anything...you just added a couple of spell-like abilities. You basically advance every paladin ability with cleric spellcasting... This gives a 20th level character 15th spell like ability, decent combat abilities, and awesome character flair devoted to the four aspects of the apocalypse. You could have this flair and a better character by not entering this class. Its still very vanilla. Its not doing anything a cleric couldn't already do(except advance paladin abilities, which you should get rid of.) Uniqueness, thats your goal! Try and make something special, something new, something fun to play! Get away from X/day abilities and advancing old abilities. Those can be useful and can be part of good PrCs, but your concept doesn't need them! My suggestion, make a stand alone PrC. Forget the cleric/paladin, it seems to be hindering the process.
Schwarg 03-23-08, 01:48 PM	The core flair I want is a cleric with those four domains and rides a special mount. With each domain progression, a special ability would be cool I thought. What else could I do? I want this prestige class to add uniquiness but not make it too lame in melee. I also don't want to lose to much in spell casting. What do you suggest?
IdleAltruism 03-23-08, 03:40 PM	The way you describe what you want, it sounds like playing the good old cleric would be fine. Buying or taking the leadership to obtain a special mount would work. Clerics can make excellent melee combatants and you can always prepare nasty disease spreading spells and control an undead army of your own. A horseman of the apocalypse sounds to me like a race rather than a class, but if you really want to make a PrC I wouldn't make it a spellcaster(for some reason they seem more like melee characters than casters) My suggestion for a cleric type PrC is to look at the Ordained Champion(CC), Fist of raziel(Boed), and the sacred exorcist(CD) for examples of decent cleric PrCs(the last two being kind of high on the power scale.) They're good bases for Melee oriented cleric classes with some nifty abilities(the exorcist grant domains)
Schwarg 03-24-08, 12:25 AM	What about making it a class in itself, 20 levels? Instead of the prerequisites, there would be better ways of adding the flair I want. It is core to have 9th level casting for the four domain theme I want. I was thinking of maybe apocalyptic aura like dragon aura from dragon shaman. Maybe a spell progression a tad slower or a limited spell list focused on spells that are tied to each aspect of the four horsemen. I don't know why I'm set on the domains as my foundation of the build but it is.
teshen 03-24-08, 01:20 PM	Horseman of the Apocolypse Prestige Class: 10 level prestige class Focused on bringing the end of civilization and the world, a horseman of the apocolypse brings with him the four aspects of evil outlined in Revelations. . . Ok... I'm stuck on the evil thing. The four horsemen are symbolic of a whole lot of bad circumstance that happen in the last days... And there is the rider of the white horse who wears a crown and conquers... The horsemen represent the chaos and destruction that paves the way for a new society to replace the wicked and corrupt one of before. As such, it's more like a natural wild fire that makes way for new growth... or at least that's how I've always understood it. Of course, you probably think I'm a screwball now...