Humanoid Wild Shape? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Humanoid Wild Shape? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sunblast
02-05-07, 10:01 PM We have a player who is planning to play as a druid that, at 6th level, will give up advancing in spellcasting and with her animal companion in favor of focusing on her wild shape. She's going to do this by taking on the Master of Many Forms prestige class. This presents a bit of a problem for us, though.

I understand that wild shape, functioning like the alternate form ability, makes the user acquire new physical stats from straight out of the Monster Manual. However, what happens when she turns into a humanoid? What happens if she shifts into the form of an elf, orc, gnoll, dwarf, or human? What do her stats become?

If there's no clear answer to this dilemma, we'll probably resort to trying to emulate a race change. She currently a half-elf, so her stats wouldn't change that much when we kinda take away her half-elvenness, but she'll acquire the physical stat changes of her new race. So a +2 CON for dwarves, but not the -2 CHA. +2 DEX and -2 CON for elves. Does this sound about right?

I'd really prefer a more official solution, but if there's not much out there on this subject, then we'll just have to go for a house rule. Could anyone give any advice on this subject?
The_Shaman
02-06-07, 01:53 PM We have a player who is planning to play as a druid that, at 6th level, will give up advancing in spellcasting and with her animal companion in favor of focusing on her wild shape. She's going to do this by taking on the Master of Many Forms prestige class. This presents a bit of a problem for us, though.

I understand that wild shape, functioning like the alternate form ability, makes the user acquire new physical stats from straight out of the Monster Manual. However, what happens when she turns into a humanoid? What happens if she shifts into the form of an elf, orc, gnoll, dwarf, or human? What do her stats become?

If there's no clear answer to this dilemma, we'll probably resort to trying to emulate a race change. She currently a half-elf, so her stats wouldn't change that much when we kinda take away her half-elvenness, but she'll acquire the physical stat changes of her new race. So a +2 CON for dwarves, but not the -2 CHA. +2 DEX and -2 CON for elves. Does this sound about right?

I'd really prefer a more official solution, but if there's not much out there on this subject, then we'll just have to go for a house rule. Could anyone give any advice on this subject?

I think that for humanoids, her stats will just get the adjustments and not be replaced with the standard for the race. It's a bit weird, imo.
dunerunner
02-08-07, 01:06 AM If she becomes a humanoid, use typical stats for that creature... Dont just give her the stat adjustments. She could abuse that pretty easily, just staying a half-orc all the time? ;)

The way I read it... Wild Shape (Humanoid) was more for flavour and RP purposes than anything else...
Sunblast
02-08-07, 10:15 AM If she becomes a humanoid, use typical stats for that creature... Dont just give her the stat adjustments. She could abuse that pretty easily, just staying a half-orc all the time? ;)

The way I read it... Wild Shape (Humanoid) was more for flavour and RP purposes than anything else...
Persoanlly, I'd go for orc over half-orc. +4 STR with no mental penalties. ;-)
So, let's say she did stay half-orc all the time. The typical stats for half orcs would be...
STR 12
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 8
Right? She'd acquire the physical stats, but keep her own mental. That'd be really poor stats, though. If memory serves, she actually got 16s for her physical stats (But I might be a tad off). Her physical stats are good, and that'd kill them. But, if you're right about it being meant for RP, then it wouldn't really matter. Still, it seems like she's getting cheated a bit. I really wish this was covered in the rules. >_<
I mean, this is really different from turning into monsters. Humanoids rarely even use the humanoid hit die since they just use class levels instead of humanoid levels. This situation is a bit sticky, I think.
Sunblast
02-08-07, 11:22 PM Hey, I've got a couple more questions.

First of all, I know that your choices are limited based on the hit die of the creature. Most of the humanoids are exempt of this rule since they don't actually have hit dice. But what about level adjustment? What if you want to wild shape into a drow?

Also, what about clothing and items? Normally, they'd meld into your new form and become nonfunctional until you change back, but what about humanoids? I can understand if you were a gnome turnign into a medium sized creature, but what about when it's just a half-elf changing into an elf? Will you become naked and unarmed?
The_Shaman
02-09-07, 04:56 AM I think LA wasn't a problem: just as how the MoMF guide looks at forms with high LA (war troll and the like) so should MoMF not be limited. Alter self, polymorph, or shapechange don't look at the LA, so why should you ;) ? You don't get most of the racial abilities anyways.

- BTW, I think if your DM allows, you could just get the ability adjustments for some races. Hey, you're a druid that gives away animal companion and spellcasting, you deserve to be cut some slack at least for the guts to do that ;) . Also, there was a psion feat allowing you to retain 1 supernatural ability when you metamorphosize (read: polymorph); it would be good if you could adapt it to work in your wildshapes.
Sunblast
02-12-07, 11:17 AM I think LA wasn't a problem: just as how the MoMF guide looks at forms with high LA (war troll and the like) so should MoMF not be limited. Alter self, polymorph, or shapechange don't look at the LA, so why should you ;) ? You don't get most of the racial abilities anyways.
Wait, is there actually a guide to the MoMF? If so, that'd be very helpful.
You're right, though. I need to actually look into exactly what things she gets and what she doesn't, though I know that spell-like abilities aren't received by shapechangers. No darkness for her.
- BTW, I think if your DM allows, you could just get the ability adjustments for some races. Hey, you're a druid that gives away animal companion and spellcasting, you deserve to be cut some slack at least for the guts to do that ;) . Also, there was a psion feat allowing you to retain 1 supernatural ability when you metamorphosize (read: polymorph); it would be good if you could adapt it to work in your wildshapes.
Yeah, I could definately agree with that, although I'm not certain she actually understands what she's giving up. But she said she wasn't aiming to be a caster, so it's what she wants. I wish I knew of a non-caster druid variant...
No psionics here. DM's rule, though being completely ignorant of psionics, I'm not going to argue with it. ;) But you were saying that we could try to make something up that would be about equal to it, right? We could try, but I'd have to understand Psionics, I think. Blech. :yuck:
Sunblast
03-12-07, 04:20 PM :bump:
Also, what about clothing and items? Normally, they'd meld into your new form and become nonfunctional until you change back, but what about humanoids? I can understand if you were a gnome turnign into a medium sized creature, but what about when it's just a half-elf changing into an elf? Will you become naked and unarmed?
I'm still curious about this one. I hope that a Master of Many Forms doesn't have to get their armor enchanted just to keep modest (Beastskin armor, I think it was). Also, it would suck to have to drop your weapon, transform into a more combat-oriented race, then pick your weapon back up just to keep from disarming yourself. Is there anything covering the items worn/carried by a master of many forms?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sunblast 02-05-07, 10:01 PM	We have a player who is planning to play as a druid that, at 6th level, will give up advancing in spellcasting and with her animal companion in favor of focusing on her wild shape. She's going to do this by taking on the Master of Many Forms prestige class. This presents a bit of a problem for us, though. I understand that wild shape, functioning like the alternate form ability, makes the user acquire new physical stats from straight out of the Monster Manual. However, what happens when she turns into a humanoid? What happens if she shifts into the form of an elf, orc, gnoll, dwarf, or human? What do her stats become? If there's no clear answer to this dilemma, we'll probably resort to trying to emulate a race change. She currently a half-elf, so her stats wouldn't change that much when we kinda take away her half-elvenness, but she'll acquire the physical stat changes of her new race. So a +2 CON for dwarves, but not the -2 CHA. +2 DEX and -2 CON for elves. Does this sound about right? I'd really prefer a more official solution, but if there's not much out there on this subject, then we'll just have to go for a house rule. Could anyone give any advice on this subject?
The_Shaman 02-06-07, 01:53 PM	We have a player who is planning to play as a druid that, at 6th level, will give up advancing in spellcasting and with her animal companion in favor of focusing on her wild shape. She's going to do this by taking on the Master of Many Forms prestige class. This presents a bit of a problem for us, though. I understand that wild shape, functioning like the alternate form ability, makes the user acquire new physical stats from straight out of the Monster Manual. However, what happens when she turns into a humanoid? What happens if she shifts into the form of an elf, orc, gnoll, dwarf, or human? What do her stats become? If there's no clear answer to this dilemma, we'll probably resort to trying to emulate a race change. She currently a half-elf, so her stats wouldn't change that much when we kinda take away her half-elvenness, but she'll acquire the physical stat changes of her new race. So a +2 CON for dwarves, but not the -2 CHA. +2 DEX and -2 CON for elves. Does this sound about right? I'd really prefer a more official solution, but if there's not much out there on this subject, then we'll just have to go for a house rule. Could anyone give any advice on this subject? I think that for humanoids, her stats will just get the adjustments and not be replaced with the standard for the race. It's a bit weird, imo.
dunerunner 02-08-07, 01:06 AM	If she becomes a humanoid, use typical stats for that creature... Dont just give her the stat adjustments. She could abuse that pretty easily, just staying a half-orc all the time? ;) The way I read it... Wild Shape (Humanoid) was more for flavour and RP purposes than anything else...
Sunblast 02-08-07, 10:15 AM	If she becomes a humanoid, use typical stats for that creature... Dont just give her the stat adjustments. She could abuse that pretty easily, just staying a half-orc all the time? ;) The way I read it... Wild Shape (Humanoid) was more for flavour and RP purposes than anything else... Persoanlly, I'd go for orc over half-orc. +4 STR with no mental penalties. ;-) So, let's say she did stay half-orc all the time. The typical stats for half orcs would be... STR 12 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 8 Right? She'd acquire the physical stats, but keep her own mental. That'd be really poor stats, though. If memory serves, she actually got 16s for her physical stats (But I might be a tad off). Her physical stats are good, and that'd kill them. But, if you're right about it being meant for RP, then it wouldn't really matter. Still, it seems like she's getting cheated a bit. I really wish this was covered in the rules. >_< I mean, this is really different from turning into monsters. Humanoids rarely even use the humanoid hit die since they just use class levels instead of humanoid levels. This situation is a bit sticky, I think.
Sunblast 02-08-07, 11:22 PM	Hey, I've got a couple more questions. First of all, I know that your choices are limited based on the hit die of the creature. Most of the humanoids are exempt of this rule since they don't actually have hit dice. But what about level adjustment? What if you want to wild shape into a drow? Also, what about clothing and items? Normally, they'd meld into your new form and become nonfunctional until you change back, but what about humanoids? I can understand if you were a gnome turnign into a medium sized creature, but what about when it's just a half-elf changing into an elf? Will you become naked and unarmed?
The_Shaman 02-09-07, 04:56 AM	I think LA wasn't a problem: just as how the MoMF guide looks at forms with high LA (war troll and the like) so should MoMF not be limited. Alter self, polymorph, or shapechange don't look at the LA, so why should you ;) ? You don't get most of the racial abilities anyways. - BTW, I think if your DM allows, you could just get the ability adjustments for some races. Hey, you're a druid that gives away animal companion and spellcasting, you deserve to be cut some slack at least for the guts to do that ;) . Also, there was a psion feat allowing you to retain 1 supernatural ability when you metamorphosize (read: polymorph); it would be good if you could adapt it to work in your wildshapes.
Sunblast 02-12-07, 11:17 AM	I think LA wasn't a problem: just as how the MoMF guide looks at forms with high LA (war troll and the like) so should MoMF not be limited. Alter self, polymorph, or shapechange don't look at the LA, so why should you ;) ? You don't get most of the racial abilities anyways. Wait, is there actually a guide to the MoMF? If so, that'd be very helpful. You're right, though. I need to actually look into exactly what things she gets and what she doesn't, though I know that spell-like abilities aren't received by shapechangers. No darkness for her. - BTW, I think if your DM allows, you could just get the ability adjustments for some races. Hey, you're a druid that gives away animal companion and spellcasting, you deserve to be cut some slack at least for the guts to do that ;) . Also, there was a psion feat allowing you to retain 1 supernatural ability when you metamorphosize (read: polymorph); it would be good if you could adapt it to work in your wildshapes. Yeah, I could definately agree with that, although I'm not certain she actually understands what she's giving up. But she said she wasn't aiming to be a caster, so it's what she wants. I wish I knew of a non-caster druid variant... No psionics here. DM's rule, though being completely ignorant of psionics, I'm not going to argue with it. ;) But you were saying that we could try to make something up that would be about equal to it, right? We could try, but I'd have to understand Psionics, I think. Blech. :yuck:
Sunblast 03-12-07, 04:20 PM	:bump: Also, what about clothing and items? Normally, they'd meld into your new form and become nonfunctional until you change back, but what about humanoids? I can understand if you were a gnome turnign into a medium sized creature, but what about when it's just a half-elf changing into an elf? Will you become naked and unarmed? I'm still curious about this one. I hope that a Master of Many Forms doesn't have to get their armor enchanted just to keep modest (Beastskin armor, I think it was). Also, it would suck to have to drop your weapon, transform into a more combat-oriented race, then pick your weapon back up just to keep from disarming yourself. Is there anything covering the items worn/carried by a master of many forms?