Incompatible Prestige Classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Incompatible Prestige Classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mmxbass
07-16-07, 10:54 PM I'm trying to iron out what seems like incompatible prestige classes. Should a player who has maximally advanced as a Walker in the Waste be permitted to take levels as a Green Star Adept (or vice versa). The trouble lays in the fact that to have maximum ranks in both would require the player to change his type to both intelligent construct (Green Star Adept) and undead (Walker in the Waste).

Now, as far as I can find, I have not seen an undead construct EVER, checking all my source books dating back nearly 20 years. My preliminary answer to the player would be a simple "no", but I want to get some outside input on this.
Shedeo
07-16-07, 11:00 PM I played in a campaign once where we were supposed to have a horror-based adventure. The DM and I were on good terms, and she drew upon me as a source since I love horror, took my ideas, and gave them her own twist.

We ended up fighting Zombie Warforged.

I promptly began calling them Warbies, and decided that they needed to make the "Woobie-woo!" chocobo sound from Final Fantasy 7.

In any event, I would allow the multiclass only to fit a particular character concept, such as someone cursed by Orcus or another similar god of undeath.
skydin
07-17-07, 01:09 AM well constructs cant be made undead, they arent alive, but undead might be able to be made into intelligent constructs. sort of like the vampire werewolf thing. so they would have to take walker in the waste first, but if they did so i would allow it i suppose.
Dead_Weasel
07-17-07, 01:18 AM I think that the character could advance in both simultaneously, but that completing either class would prevent them from taking levels in the either class - as an undead, the biology to process the starmetal is gone, and as a construct, the biology to reanimate is gone.
skydin
07-17-07, 01:24 AM or, you could like, save up levels (you totaly cant do that, but whateber), and take both at once. BOOM, zombie-cyborg. CYBIES...or zomborgs....
Kevin Andrew Murphy
07-17-07, 03:18 AM You could add in Winter Haunt of Iborhigu to turn them into an evil ice elemental on top of it.

Or you could be silly and let them take Oozemaster too. Then you have a frozen evil undead greenstarmetal ooze. Just what everyone wants to play.
mmxbass
07-17-07, 03:21 AM Now this has got me thinking about making a native outsider undead construct abberation.

Elan walker in the waste green star adept monk.
skydin
07-17-07, 03:34 AM seriously, someone stat out the zomborg...
Shedeo
07-17-07, 07:58 AM Well, lets see what I can do about the Zomborg.

Zomborg

Zomborg is an acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature.

Size and Type: The creature's type changes to Undead. Size is unchanged.

Hit Dice: All current and future hit dice become d12s.

Speed: The creature gains a +10 bonus to its base land speed, and a +20 bonus to its fly speed (if any.)

Armor Class: The creature gains a +2 Natural Armor Bonus to its AC, +2 for each size category above medium. Also, see Composite Plating below.

Base Attack Bonus: A Zomborg uses the base attack bonus acquired by the base creature, from either racial hit dice or class levels.

Attacks: A Zomborg gains a Slam Attack that deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage (if medium.) It also gains Improved Grab when attacking with this slam attack.

Damage: Natural and manufactured weapons deal damage normally.

Special Attacks: A Zomborg retains all of the base creature's special attacks.

Special Qualities: A Zomborg retains all of the base creature's special qualities, and gains the following:

Damage Reduction: A Zomborg has Damage Reduction dependent on its hit dice:
-1 Hit Dice: DR 5/Adamantine and Slashing
-5 Hit Dice: DR 10/Adamantine and Slashing
-10 Hit Dice: Gains an additional amount of DR equal to half its hit dice, overcome in the same manner. This ability also increases should the Zomborg gain additional HP.

Resistances: Fire and Cold Resistance 10, Immunity to Acid.

Targeting Ray: A Zomborg can, as a move, take a -20 penalty on its Hide check to gain a +10 bonus on spot checks and ranged attack rolls made against a single living creature of the Zomborg's choice for one round.

Targeting Blast: If a Zomborg spends an entire full-round action using its Targeting Ray, it can unleash a devastating attack with perfect accuracy. This counts as a Magic Missile spell caster level equal to the Zomborg's hit dice. It also deals additional damage equal to the Zomborg's hit dice. Once this ability is used, it cannot be used for another 1d4 rounds, and another full-round of targeting is required. This ability takes a standard action to activate, but does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Each of the missiles created in this manner all target the same creature, and the target must be the same creature the targeting ray ability was used on.

Composite Armor: A Zomborg possesses hard, adamantine metal plates which grant it the aforementioned Damage Reduction, and also a +8 Armor Bonus to AC. This "armor" comes with a burden; it is treated as having an Armor Check Penalty of -4 and a maximum dexterity bonus of +2.

Hivemind: If three or more Zombies are within 100 feet of one another, they form a semi-telepathic hivemind. This ability functions as the Hivemind ability.

Acidic Blood: Any creature striking a Zomborg with a non-reach slashing or piercing melee or natural weapon takes 1d6 acid damage per four hit dice of the Zomborg. Upon a Zomborg's death, it violently melts down. Any adjacent creature must make a reflex save (DC 15 + 1/2 the Zomborg's hit dice) or take 1d6 acid damage per hit dice of the Zomborg. This destroys the composite armor and other equipment of the Zomborg. A creature grappled upon the death of the Zomborg receives no saving throw to avoid the effect and takes an additional 4d6 acid damage.

Construct Toughness: A Zomborg gains bonus Hit Points based on its size, as detailed in the Construct entry of the Monster Manual.

Saves: A Zomborg uses the base saving throws of the base creature.

Abilities: A Zomborg's Strength increases by +6, Dexterity is decreased by -4, as an Undead it does not possess a Constitution score. Intelligence becomes a 3 and cannot be reduced lower or increased higher than this value.

Skills: A Zomborg has the skills of the base creature, but its number of skill points will be augmented by its new intelligence score.

Feats: A Zomborg retains the feats of the base creature, but may lose some due to the change in its ability scores. If this be the case, it loses each of these feats. For each feat lost in this manner, it gains the Toughness feat.

Environment: Any.

Organization: Any, though typically found either alone or in mass numbers.

Challenge Rating: ???

Treasure: None.

Languages: A Zomborg understands, but cannot speak, all the languages of the creature that created it.

Many scholars speculate the true origin of the Zomborgs, as they are encountered throughout the planes in strange and bizarre locations, seemingly for no reason. Many people believe that they are cursed soldiers bound in hideous bolts to their ancient armor, or the twisted machinations of some long-forgotten necromancer-artificer. Regardless of all the theories and conspiracies surrounding them, they were more than likely created via a wizard's debate of "Which comes first? The Construct? Or the Zombie?"

Creating a Zomborg: Due to their other obviously mechanical grafts, Zomborgs cannot be created via the Animate Dead spell. A creature that gains the Zomborg template cannot be raised after destruction except by a True Resurrection spell. They can, however, be created by...

And there you have it. My take on the Zomborg. It looks pretty potent, actually, but I have no ability to judge CR. Half-Fiend Zomborg Beholders FTW!
skydin
07-17-07, 09:02 PM as the guiness guys would say, BRILLIANT!!!
Lotus Crane
07-17-07, 11:30 PM Well, you could allow a special exception, like the writers of Elite Opponents are wont to do, allow the character to count as both types and retain the abilities from both PrC's. Visually the character would look like a flesh golem, perhaps even Frankenstein's monster, and mechanically there's no real reason to worry about imbalances here.
Shedeo
07-18-07, 02:43 AM So I updated the Zomborg a bit. Didn't mean to Threadjack there, do forgive.

That being said, I'm going to whisk this monstrocity away to the Monsters boards and see what they have to say about it!
Hsien
07-19-07, 01:58 PM Also keep in mind that the DM has the capability to not to allow a player to take a PrC, I like shocking people with that one but it's true, PrC are not automatically available just because a player wants to take them.

I'm not that familar with those two specifically but you could simply not allow it as incompatible, and as Dead_Weasel indicated if either is completed the other cannot be because of the template constraints.
lord_xarallon
07-19-07, 04:52 PM I posted your Zomborg at the Monster forum.
mmxbass
07-19-07, 06:14 PM Also keep in mind that the DM has the capability to not to allow a player to take a PrC, I like shocking people with that one but it's true, PrC are not automatically available just because a player wants to take them.

I'm not that familar with those two specifically but you could simply not allow it as incompatible, and as Dead_Weasel indicated if either is completed the other cannot be because of the template constraints.

Well, really. The DM has the capability to not allow a player to do anything he doesn't want to do. I regularly don't allow players to take certain core races or classes if it would mess up the story I have planned.

I think that the character could advance in both simultaneously, but that completing either class would prevent them from taking levels in the either class - as an undead, the biology to process the starmetal is gone, and as a construct, the biology to reanimate is gone.

I think this is the way I'm going to go with this as I like the logic behind it. Reaching 10th level in green star adept will stop you from making it past 9th in walker in the waste. Reaching 10th level in walker in the waste will stop you from making it past the next transformation level in green star adept.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mmxbass 07-16-07, 10:54 PM	I'm trying to iron out what seems like incompatible prestige classes. Should a player who has maximally advanced as a Walker in the Waste be permitted to take levels as a Green Star Adept (or vice versa). The trouble lays in the fact that to have maximum ranks in both would require the player to change his type to both intelligent construct (Green Star Adept) and undead (Walker in the Waste). Now, as far as I can find, I have not seen an undead construct EVER, checking all my source books dating back nearly 20 years. My preliminary answer to the player would be a simple "no", but I want to get some outside input on this.
Shedeo 07-16-07, 11:00 PM	I played in a campaign once where we were supposed to have a horror-based adventure. The DM and I were on good terms, and she drew upon me as a source since I love horror, took my ideas, and gave them her own twist. We ended up fighting Zombie Warforged. I promptly began calling them Warbies, and decided that they needed to make the "Woobie-woo!" chocobo sound from Final Fantasy 7. In any event, I would allow the multiclass only to fit a particular character concept, such as someone cursed by Orcus or another similar god of undeath.
skydin 07-17-07, 01:09 AM	well constructs cant be made undead, they arent alive, but undead might be able to be made into intelligent constructs. sort of like the vampire werewolf thing. so they would have to take walker in the waste first, but if they did so i would allow it i suppose.
Dead_Weasel 07-17-07, 01:18 AM	I think that the character could advance in both simultaneously, but that completing either class would prevent them from taking levels in the either class - as an undead, the biology to process the starmetal is gone, and as a construct, the biology to reanimate is gone.
skydin 07-17-07, 01:24 AM	or, you could like, save up levels (you totaly cant do that, but whateber), and take both at once. BOOM, zombie-cyborg. CYBIES...or zomborgs....
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-17-07, 03:18 AM	You could add in Winter Haunt of Iborhigu to turn them into an evil ice elemental on top of it. Or you could be silly and let them take Oozemaster too. Then you have a frozen evil undead greenstarmetal ooze. Just what everyone wants to play.
mmxbass 07-17-07, 03:21 AM	Now this has got me thinking about making a native outsider undead construct abberation. Elan walker in the waste green star adept monk.
skydin 07-17-07, 03:34 AM	seriously, someone stat out the zomborg...
Shedeo 07-17-07, 07:58 AM	Well, lets see what I can do about the Zomborg. Zomborg Zomborg is an acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature. Size and Type: The creature's type changes to Undead. Size is unchanged. Hit Dice: All current and future hit dice become d12s. Speed: The creature gains a +10 bonus to its base land speed, and a +20 bonus to its fly speed (if any.) Armor Class: The creature gains a +2 Natural Armor Bonus to its AC, +2 for each size category above medium. Also, see Composite Plating below. Base Attack Bonus: A Zomborg uses the base attack bonus acquired by the base creature, from either racial hit dice or class levels. Attacks: A Zomborg gains a Slam Attack that deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage (if medium.) It also gains Improved Grab when attacking with this slam attack. Damage: Natural and manufactured weapons deal damage normally. Special Attacks: A Zomborg retains all of the base creature's special attacks. Special Qualities: A Zomborg retains all of the base creature's special qualities, and gains the following: Damage Reduction: A Zomborg has Damage Reduction dependent on its hit dice: -1 Hit Dice: DR 5/Adamantine and Slashing -5 Hit Dice: DR 10/Adamantine and Slashing -10 Hit Dice: Gains an additional amount of DR equal to half its hit dice, overcome in the same manner. This ability also increases should the Zomborg gain additional HP. Resistances: Fire and Cold Resistance 10, Immunity to Acid. Targeting Ray: A Zomborg can, as a move, take a -20 penalty on its Hide check to gain a +10 bonus on spot checks and ranged attack rolls made against a single living creature of the Zomborg's choice for one round. Targeting Blast: If a Zomborg spends an entire full-round action using its Targeting Ray, it can unleash a devastating attack with perfect accuracy. This counts as a Magic Missile spell caster level equal to the Zomborg's hit dice. It also deals additional damage equal to the Zomborg's hit dice. Once this ability is used, it cannot be used for another 1d4 rounds, and another full-round of targeting is required. This ability takes a standard action to activate, but does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Each of the missiles created in this manner all target the same creature, and the target must be the same creature the targeting ray ability was used on. Composite Armor: A Zomborg possesses hard, adamantine metal plates which grant it the aforementioned Damage Reduction, and also a +8 Armor Bonus to AC. This "armor" comes with a burden; it is treated as having an Armor Check Penalty of -4 and a maximum dexterity bonus of +2. Hivemind: If three or more Zombies are within 100 feet of one another, they form a semi-telepathic hivemind. This ability functions as the Hivemind ability. Acidic Blood: Any creature striking a Zomborg with a non-reach slashing or piercing melee or natural weapon takes 1d6 acid damage per four hit dice of the Zomborg. Upon a Zomborg's death, it violently melts down. Any adjacent creature must make a reflex save (DC 15 + 1/2 the Zomborg's hit dice) or take 1d6 acid damage per hit dice of the Zomborg. This destroys the composite armor and other equipment of the Zomborg. A creature grappled upon the death of the Zomborg receives no saving throw to avoid the effect and takes an additional 4d6 acid damage. Construct Toughness: A Zomborg gains bonus Hit Points based on its size, as detailed in the Construct entry of the Monster Manual. Saves: A Zomborg uses the base saving throws of the base creature. Abilities: A Zomborg's Strength increases by +6, Dexterity is decreased by -4, as an Undead it does not possess a Constitution score. Intelligence becomes a 3 and cannot be reduced lower or increased higher than this value. Skills: A Zomborg has the skills of the base creature, but its number of skill points will be augmented by its new intelligence score. Feats: A Zomborg retains the feats of the base creature, but may lose some due to the change in its ability scores. If this be the case, it loses each of these feats. For each feat lost in this manner, it gains the Toughness feat. Environment: Any. Organization: Any, though typically found either alone or in mass numbers. Challenge Rating: ??? Treasure: None. Languages: A Zomborg understands, but cannot speak, all the languages of the creature that created it. Many scholars speculate the true origin of the Zomborgs, as they are encountered throughout the planes in strange and bizarre locations, seemingly for no reason. Many people believe that they are cursed soldiers bound in hideous bolts to their ancient armor, or the twisted machinations of some long-forgotten necromancer-artificer. Regardless of all the theories and conspiracies surrounding them, they were more than likely created via a wizard's debate of "Which comes first? The Construct? Or the Zombie?" Creating a Zomborg: Due to their other obviously mechanical grafts, Zomborgs cannot be created via the Animate Dead spell. A creature that gains the Zomborg template cannot be raised after destruction except by a True Resurrection spell. They can, however, be created by... And there you have it. My take on the Zomborg. It looks pretty potent, actually, but I have no ability to judge CR. Half-Fiend Zomborg Beholders FTW!
skydin 07-17-07, 09:02 PM	as the guiness guys would say, BRILLIANT!!!
Lotus Crane 07-17-07, 11:30 PM	Well, you could allow a special exception, like the writers of Elite Opponents are wont to do, allow the character to count as both types and retain the abilities from both PrC's. Visually the character would look like a flesh golem, perhaps even Frankenstein's monster, and mechanically there's no real reason to worry about imbalances here.
Shedeo 07-18-07, 02:43 AM	So I updated the Zomborg a bit. Didn't mean to Threadjack there, do forgive. That being said, I'm going to whisk this monstrocity away to the Monsters boards and see what they have to say about it!
Hsien 07-19-07, 01:58 PM	Also keep in mind that the DM has the capability to not to allow a player to take a PrC, I like shocking people with that one but it's true, PrC are not automatically available just because a player wants to take them. I'm not that familar with those two specifically but you could simply not allow it as incompatible, and as Dead_Weasel indicated if either is completed the other cannot be because of the template constraints.
lord_xarallon 07-19-07, 04:52 PM	I posted your Zomborg at the Monster forum.
mmxbass 07-19-07, 06:14 PM	Also keep in mind that the DM has the capability to not to allow a player to take a PrC, I like shocking people with that one but it's true, PrC are not automatically available just because a player wants to take them. I'm not that familar with those two specifically but you could simply not allow it as incompatible, and as Dead_Weasel indicated if either is completed the other cannot be because of the template constraints. Well, really. The DM has the capability to not allow a player to do anything he doesn't want to do. I regularly don't allow players to take certain core races or classes if it would mess up the story I have planned. I think that the character could advance in both simultaneously, but that completing either class would prevent them from taking levels in the either class - as an undead, the biology to process the starmetal is gone, and as a construct, the biology to reanimate is gone. I think this is the way I'm going to go with this as I like the logic behind it. Reaching 10th level in green star adept will stop you from making it past 9th in walker in the waste. Reaching 10th level in walker in the waste will stop you from making it past the next transformation level in green star adept.