Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil help!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil help!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Snorre
05-15-07, 12:30 PM Planning on building a Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and I have some questions when it comes to this class or this build

Gonna Look something like this
Dwarf
Abjurer 3, Master Specialist (Abjurations) 6, IotSV 7, Abjurant Champion 4.
Feats: Combat Casting, Weapon Prof (Longbow), Spell Focus (Abjuration), Improved Initiative, Energy Abjuration, Craft contingent spell

This is a pretty powerful build if you ask me

Anyway have some questions about ruling, and one question where I want your opinion.
1. What is the DC of my warding imbued with veils? For warding it says the DC is 18+the primary spellcasting ability modifier and the DC for the veil is lower. So what is the DC for the a Warding imbued with a... red veil?
2. Is the warding considered a spell from the school of abjuration? That means I get the bonus from Spell Focus and greater spell focus + it's harder to dispel.
3. What about Kaleidoscopic doom? Is the DC higher for this spell, and do I get a bonus on dispel checks. Both from increased caster lvl and the competence bonus on dispel check from Master Specialist?
4. When my caster lvl is higher than the max caster lvl bonus on dispel check. Do I still get the competence bonus from Master Specialist?
5. This questions doesn't really have so much with this class to do, but I ask it anyway. When Casting Ray of Enfeeblement the target get a penalty to strength but it is not a typed damage. So does another Ray of Enfeeblement stack? I think not, but what if you first cast Ray of Enfeeblement, and then cast Waves of Exhaustion or maybe Bestow Curse with a -6 penalty to strength. Do this stack?

6. What school would you prefer to have as prohibited. Let's see an overview of the schools:
Conjuration: No no no, this is the best school there is. Summoning, damage spell, and battlefield control spells, and also very important teleport spells.
Divination: Nope
Enchantment: It's a possibility, but I like some of the spells. Great against fighters or monsters with low will save. Illusions can replace this school, so it is an alternative.
Evocation: Well that is the only easy choice. Conjuration can replace this school. This school only does damage, but there are better spells than pure damage. Gonna miss Magic Missile and Fireball thou. Also has Forecage.
Illusion: Good defensive spells but as abjurer I can replace those. Has some cool spells that can do really great with a decent DM, Like Major Image. But I can live without this school.
Necromancy: Some really great spells that can sap out the strength against your enemies. Do not want to miss those. Also have some really great spells at higher lvs like clone, astral projection and magic jar. But still it's a school I can live without but a though one.
Transmutation: No no no. Has a big arsenal of spells, and some must spells like overland flight, and life saviors like water breathing and feather fall. Polymorph..... enough said.

Well let's see what I have. Evocation and Illusion or enchantment. Possibly Necromancy. What do you think?

If you could help me with these questions I would be really grateful. Hope I didn't post too many questions in 1 post.
behlial953
05-15-07, 07:52 PM I got a response back from WotC about the Initiate's veils. the DC for EVERY effect on them is 18 + ability modifier

The wardings, and Ladiedoscopic Doom, are not considered spells, so they don;t get bonuses normally given to spells

ray of enfeeblements do stack with each other, but they do say regardless how many you hit someone with, they do not reduced the Strength below 1

I would choose illusion as the restricted school, in my own opinion

you would still get the competence bonus on dispel checks, because that is different than your caster level
Lotus Crane
05-16-07, 09:16 AM Actually, repeated castings of ray of enfeeblement do not stack; they overlap. Ie, the one causing the biggest single penalty is the one in effect. See pages 171-172 of the PHB.

Even untyped bonuses and penalties do not stack, when from the exact same source (ie, a specific spell).

If ray of enfeeblement caused ability damage instead of a temporary penalty, then yes, it would "stack," since of course damage does add up.
Snorre
05-16-07, 03:30 PM Even untyped bonuses and penalties do not stack, when from the exact same source (ie, a specific spell).

So the strength penalty when casting waves of exhaustion, ray of enfeeblement and bestow curse, would stack since it's not from the same source? What about megamagic spells. Like Ray of Enfeeblement and Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement?

Thanks for the replies thou, has really cleared up some things for me. Little bit annoying that Wizard say the Warding has a DC 18+Int and a different for the veil, but glad I got a clear answer :)
Lotus Crane
05-16-07, 04:21 PM So the strength penalty when casting waves of exhaustion, ray of enfeeblement and bestow curse, would stack since it's not from the same source?
Yes, those would stack. In fact, they're not even technically all Strength "penalties." Ray of enfeeblement causes a Strength penalty, bestow curse causes an ability score decrease, and waves of exhaustion cause targets to become exhausted, which is a certain type of condition that is independent of other effects.

What about megamagic spells. Like Ray of Enfeeblement and Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement?
As far as I know, still considered the same source, and would therefore not stack. Ditto for rays of enfeeblement cast by different spellcasters, or from a spellcaster and a magic item.
Dead_Weasel
05-16-07, 04:27 PM I just like to remind people of this: Precocious Apprentice lets you take Master Specialist as your 3rd level.
mitsuo89
05-17-07, 12:15 PM As far as I know, still considered the same source, and would therefore not stack. Ditto for rays of enfeeblement cast by different spellcasters, or from a spellcaster and a magic item.

This is true. Same goes for if the same spell is cast on the same target but at different levels.
Grunt_Stump
05-18-07, 01:04 PM Are the veils suppressed by an anti magic field; are they subject to a spell resistance check? The SRD says that an antimagic field does not suppress a prismatic sphere, and the spell description for prismatic sphere says that spell resistance applies for each individual color of the sphere. However the class description says nothing regarding these. There has to be a reason why they included an equivalent spell level in the description of each veil. The Veils are spell like abilities and the SRD also says that spell like abilities can be dispelled. Each one of these veils has a specific counter. If you look at the description of the 7th Violet veil it says “A violet veil is destroyed by a successful dispel magic spell” Is that sort of redundant? The 1st red veil says that it is destroyed by a cone of cold. Should it also be destroyed by a dispel magic?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Snorre 05-15-07, 12:30 PM	Planning on building a Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and I have some questions when it comes to this class or this build Gonna Look something like this Dwarf Abjurer 3, Master Specialist (Abjurations) 6, IotSV 7, Abjurant Champion 4. Feats: Combat Casting, Weapon Prof (Longbow), Spell Focus (Abjuration), Improved Initiative, Energy Abjuration, Craft contingent spell This is a pretty powerful build if you ask me Anyway have some questions about ruling, and one question where I want your opinion. 1. What is the DC of my warding imbued with veils? For warding it says the DC is 18+the primary spellcasting ability modifier and the DC for the veil is lower. So what is the DC for the a Warding imbued with a... red veil? 2. Is the warding considered a spell from the school of abjuration? That means I get the bonus from Spell Focus and greater spell focus + it's harder to dispel. 3. What about Kaleidoscopic doom? Is the DC higher for this spell, and do I get a bonus on dispel checks. Both from increased caster lvl and the competence bonus on dispel check from Master Specialist? 4. When my caster lvl is higher than the max caster lvl bonus on dispel check. Do I still get the competence bonus from Master Specialist? 5. This questions doesn't really have so much with this class to do, but I ask it anyway. When Casting Ray of Enfeeblement the target get a penalty to strength but it is not a typed damage. So does another Ray of Enfeeblement stack? I think not, but what if you first cast Ray of Enfeeblement, and then cast Waves of Exhaustion or maybe Bestow Curse with a -6 penalty to strength. Do this stack? 6. What school would you prefer to have as prohibited. Let's see an overview of the schools: Conjuration: No no no, this is the best school there is. Summoning, damage spell, and battlefield control spells, and also very important teleport spells. Divination: Nope Enchantment: It's a possibility, but I like some of the spells. Great against fighters or monsters with low will save. Illusions can replace this school, so it is an alternative. Evocation: Well that is the only easy choice. Conjuration can replace this school. This school only does damage, but there are better spells than pure damage. Gonna miss Magic Missile and Fireball thou. Also has Forecage. Illusion: Good defensive spells but as abjurer I can replace those. Has some cool spells that can do really great with a decent DM, Like Major Image. But I can live without this school. Necromancy: Some really great spells that can sap out the strength against your enemies. Do not want to miss those. Also have some really great spells at higher lvs like clone, astral projection and magic jar. But still it's a school I can live without but a though one. Transmutation: No no no. Has a big arsenal of spells, and some must spells like overland flight, and life saviors like water breathing and feather fall. Polymorph..... enough said. Well let's see what I have. Evocation and Illusion or enchantment. Possibly Necromancy. What do you think? If you could help me with these questions I would be really grateful. Hope I didn't post too many questions in 1 post.
behlial953 05-15-07, 07:52 PM	I got a response back from WotC about the Initiate's veils. the DC for EVERY effect on them is 18 + ability modifier The wardings, and Ladiedoscopic Doom, are not considered spells, so they don;t get bonuses normally given to spells ray of enfeeblements do stack with each other, but they do say regardless how many you hit someone with, they do not reduced the Strength below 1 I would choose illusion as the restricted school, in my own opinion you would still get the competence bonus on dispel checks, because that is different than your caster level
Lotus Crane 05-16-07, 09:16 AM	Actually, repeated castings of ray of enfeeblement do not stack; they overlap. Ie, the one causing the biggest single penalty is the one in effect. See pages 171-172 of the PHB. Even untyped bonuses and penalties do not stack, when from the exact same source (ie, a specific spell). If ray of enfeeblement caused ability damage instead of a temporary penalty, then yes, it would "stack," since of course damage does add up.
Snorre 05-16-07, 03:30 PM	Even untyped bonuses and penalties do not stack, when from the exact same source (ie, a specific spell). So the strength penalty when casting waves of exhaustion, ray of enfeeblement and bestow curse, would stack since it's not from the same source? What about megamagic spells. Like Ray of Enfeeblement and Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement? Thanks for the replies thou, has really cleared up some things for me. Little bit annoying that Wizard say the Warding has a DC 18+Int and a different for the veil, but glad I got a clear answer :)
Lotus Crane 05-16-07, 04:21 PM	So the strength penalty when casting waves of exhaustion, ray of enfeeblement and bestow curse, would stack since it's not from the same source? Yes, those would stack. In fact, they're not even technically all Strength "penalties." Ray of enfeeblement causes a Strength penalty, bestow curse causes an ability score decrease, and waves of exhaustion cause targets to become exhausted, which is a certain type of condition that is independent of other effects. What about megamagic spells. Like Ray of Enfeeblement and Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement? As far as I know, still considered the same source, and would therefore not stack. Ditto for rays of enfeeblement cast by different spellcasters, or from a spellcaster and a magic item.
Dead_Weasel 05-16-07, 04:27 PM	I just like to remind people of this: Precocious Apprentice lets you take Master Specialist as your 3rd level.
mitsuo89 05-17-07, 12:15 PM	As far as I know, still considered the same source, and would therefore not stack. Ditto for rays of enfeeblement cast by different spellcasters, or from a spellcaster and a magic item. This is true. Same goes for if the same spell is cast on the same target but at different levels.
Grunt_Stump 05-18-07, 01:04 PM	Are the veils suppressed by an anti magic field; are they subject to a spell resistance check? The SRD says that an antimagic field does not suppress a prismatic sphere, and the spell description for prismatic sphere says that spell resistance applies for each individual color of the sphere. However the class description says nothing regarding these. There has to be a reason why they included an equivalent spell level in the description of each veil. The Veils are spell like abilities and the SRD also says that spell like abilities can be dispelled. Each one of these veils has a specific counter. If you look at the description of the 7th Violet veil it says “A violet veil is destroyed by a successful dispel magic spell” Is that sort of redundant? The 1st red veil says that it is destroyed by a cone of cold. Should it also be destroyed by a dispel magic?