Is Kensai really THAT good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Kensai really THAT good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
boatmanj
03-02-07, 09:09 AM I'm starting up a new campaign and asked the players if they have any ideas for where they'd like to go in terms of leveling with their characters. Three of my players are fighters that all plan to prestige into Kensai. I don't have the class in front of me (we do have the COmplete Warrior somewhere in the group), so without knowing it, is there some reason why 3 players would all want to take it?
The_Shaman
03-02-07, 09:20 AM I don't like it that much, to be honest. The biggie is having a weapon you enhance with XP spending, but if the campaign isn't very item/gold poor, I don't see what's so incredible about that.
DwarfPcfan
03-02-07, 10:08 AM Not the real boon of Kensai is not the signature weapon but the Ki strenght ability (+8 strenght with a concentration check, can be stacked multiple times with increased concentration check)

Properly built you can easily net yourself a +32 to strenght with little effort

Paladin7/Kensai8/Fist of Raziel5, bring on the pain!!!
kadeity
03-02-07, 10:15 AM Kensai enhance their weapon, and can have an ability they can use to temporarily enhance your strength (attack and damage basically).

Its not AMAZING, but its good.
Having 3 players in it will be redundant though...

and likely the group will suffer for having so much combat emphasis.

If your not opposed to Psionics i suggest you refer one of them to the psionic warrior variant called Soulbound Weapon that is found on this page...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a
the powers will let them have some diversity, and being able to change some of you weapon enhancements, as needed, is very nice.

and something that is essentially a 20 level version of the kensai is the Samurai from Oriental Adventures. I suggest offering that to someone too.
Its basically a fighter... and thoguh its not as good as the Psionic Warrior with the aforementioned variant, its still better than 3 players with all the same abilities.
boatmanj
03-02-07, 10:46 AM They plan to get the "swear to an ideal" option. So what are some ideals that work for the class and what are some that are too general?
kadeity
03-02-07, 11:10 AM They plan to get the "swear to an ideal" option. So what are some ideals that work for the class and what are some that are too general?

well.... the ideal thing is really lame.
id keep them to a deity, person, or organization.

but for an ideal...
you need one thats JUST as restrictive as a deity person or organization.

id likely need to know thier alignments to suggest a good one for each however.
CaoSlayer
03-02-07, 11:15 AM They plan to get the "swear to an ideal" option. So what are some ideals that work for the class and what are some that are too general?

If they are named Athos, Portos and Aramis they can have the ideal "all for one and one for all!".
boatmanj
03-02-07, 11:19 AM LN.. The idea behind them is that they were soldiers together in the force and their group was wiped out apart from them. Now they're kind of swords for hire as they make their way to finding out what happened to their group

Raises a couple questions. First is a merc group even a good idea for a Kensai?

And also, the ideal thing comes up. I want it to be good because if it's something too easy to handle, they just get away with getting a good class without the classes primary restriction. So just looking for some examples of stuff that's too general to apply to the Kensai oath. I'm being real cool with it because I don't want to be an a-hole GM and tell them no they can't play what they want to play when they've got their hearts set on it, but I want it done right.
enygmatic_me
03-02-07, 12:33 PM Raises a couple questions. First is a merc group even a good idea for a Kensai?

Sure, there is no reason a Kensai couldn't sell his skills.

And also, the ideal thing comes up. I want it to be good because if it's something too easy to handle, they just get away with getting a good class without the classes primary restriction. So just looking for some examples of stuff that's too general to apply to the Kensai oath. I'm being real cool with it because I don't want to be an a-hole GM and tell them no they can't play what they want to play when they've got their hearts set on it, but I want it done right.

The best way to handle this is to probably give some thought to the unit they belonged to before they found themselves in the position they are in. Every military has a code of conduct and that would be the most likely place to build off of for the Kensai's code.

The class is ok, with the big appeal being, in my opinion, the strength boosting. I am not a fan of spending XP to build a weapon, especially when losing the weapon requires you to spend the XP all over again. If you use a lot of individual ad-hoc XP this isn't as bad since the players have the chance to earn bonus XP to keep them on par with the rest of the group. If not though you can find yourself falling behind the rest of the party in a very bad way.
QuarianRex
03-02-07, 01:58 PM Personally, I've always hated the Oath of Service requirement for the Kensai. The entire point of Sword Saints was their complete and total devotion to their weapon not to a lord/ideal/whatever. They are Kensai, not Samurai.

I have a houserule that replaces moronic requirement with with the more appropriate one from the old kit days. If a Kensai ever fights with any weapon other than his signature weapon he gets only half xp for the encounter.

This removes the cumbersome idiocy of inappropriate servitude while maintaining a penalty that can be enforced at the discretion of the DM (by putting in ranged encounters, selective DRs against slashing, bludgeoning, etc.). Thus making the characters choose between devotion to their chosen weapon and effectiveness in that encounter.
DarknessEternal
03-02-07, 02:38 PM Properly built you can easily net yourself a +32 to strenght with little effort

Incorrect. Untyped bonuses from the same source do not stack.

I feel the greatest aspect of Kensai are their social skill bonuses. It is possible to have both an excellent combatant and be great at social skills. Thus creating a character who is good in and out of combat.
The_Shaman
03-02-07, 03:16 PM Personally, I've always hated the Oath of Service requirement for the Kensai. The entire point of Sword Saints was their complete and total devotion to their weapon not to a lord/ideal/whatever. They are Kensai, not Samurai.

I always equated the Sword Saint idea more with the Weapon Master from OA. The Kensai struck me as a "do-it-yourlself OA Samurai" kit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boatmanj 03-02-07, 09:09 AM	I'm starting up a new campaign and asked the players if they have any ideas for where they'd like to go in terms of leveling with their characters. Three of my players are fighters that all plan to prestige into Kensai. I don't have the class in front of me (we do have the COmplete Warrior somewhere in the group), so without knowing it, is there some reason why 3 players would all want to take it?
The_Shaman 03-02-07, 09:20 AM	I don't like it that much, to be honest. The biggie is having a weapon you enhance with XP spending, but if the campaign isn't very item/gold poor, I don't see what's so incredible about that.
DwarfPcfan 03-02-07, 10:08 AM	Not the real boon of Kensai is not the signature weapon but the Ki strenght ability (+8 strenght with a concentration check, can be stacked multiple times with increased concentration check) Properly built you can easily net yourself a +32 to strenght with little effort Paladin7/Kensai8/Fist of Raziel5, bring on the pain!!!
kadeity 03-02-07, 10:15 AM	Kensai enhance their weapon, and can have an ability they can use to temporarily enhance your strength (attack and damage basically). Its not AMAZING, but its good. Having 3 players in it will be redundant though... and likely the group will suffer for having so much combat emphasis. If your not opposed to Psionics i suggest you refer one of them to the psionic warrior variant called Soulbound Weapon that is found on this page... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a the powers will let them have some diversity, and being able to change some of you weapon enhancements, as needed, is very nice. and something that is essentially a 20 level version of the kensai is the Samurai from Oriental Adventures. I suggest offering that to someone too. Its basically a fighter... and thoguh its not as good as the Psionic Warrior with the aforementioned variant, its still better than 3 players with all the same abilities.
boatmanj 03-02-07, 10:46 AM	They plan to get the "swear to an ideal" option. So what are some ideals that work for the class and what are some that are too general?
kadeity 03-02-07, 11:10 AM	They plan to get the "swear to an ideal" option. So what are some ideals that work for the class and what are some that are too general? well.... the ideal thing is really lame. id keep them to a deity, person, or organization. but for an ideal... you need one thats JUST as restrictive as a deity person or organization. id likely need to know thier alignments to suggest a good one for each however.
CaoSlayer 03-02-07, 11:15 AM	They plan to get the "swear to an ideal" option. So what are some ideals that work for the class and what are some that are too general? If they are named Athos, Portos and Aramis they can have the ideal "all for one and one for all!".
boatmanj 03-02-07, 11:19 AM	LN.. The idea behind them is that they were soldiers together in the force and their group was wiped out apart from them. Now they're kind of swords for hire as they make their way to finding out what happened to their group Raises a couple questions. First is a merc group even a good idea for a Kensai? And also, the ideal thing comes up. I want it to be good because if it's something too easy to handle, they just get away with getting a good class without the classes primary restriction. So just looking for some examples of stuff that's too general to apply to the Kensai oath. I'm being real cool with it because I don't want to be an a-hole GM and tell them no they can't play what they want to play when they've got their hearts set on it, but I want it done right.
enygmatic_me 03-02-07, 12:33 PM	Raises a couple questions. First is a merc group even a good idea for a Kensai? Sure, there is no reason a Kensai couldn't sell his skills. And also, the ideal thing comes up. I want it to be good because if it's something too easy to handle, they just get away with getting a good class without the classes primary restriction. So just looking for some examples of stuff that's too general to apply to the Kensai oath. I'm being real cool with it because I don't want to be an a-hole GM and tell them no they can't play what they want to play when they've got their hearts set on it, but I want it done right. The best way to handle this is to probably give some thought to the unit they belonged to before they found themselves in the position they are in. Every military has a code of conduct and that would be the most likely place to build off of for the Kensai's code. The class is ok, with the big appeal being, in my opinion, the strength boosting. I am not a fan of spending XP to build a weapon, especially when losing the weapon requires you to spend the XP all over again. If you use a lot of individual ad-hoc XP this isn't as bad since the players have the chance to earn bonus XP to keep them on par with the rest of the group. If not though you can find yourself falling behind the rest of the party in a very bad way.
QuarianRex 03-02-07, 01:58 PM	Personally, I've always hated the Oath of Service requirement for the Kensai. The entire point of Sword Saints was their complete and total devotion to their weapon not to a lord/ideal/whatever. They are Kensai, not Samurai. I have a houserule that replaces moronic requirement with with the more appropriate one from the old kit days. If a Kensai ever fights with any weapon other than his signature weapon he gets only half xp for the encounter. This removes the cumbersome idiocy of inappropriate servitude while maintaining a penalty that can be enforced at the discretion of the DM (by putting in ranged encounters, selective DRs against slashing, bludgeoning, etc.). Thus making the characters choose between devotion to their chosen weapon and effectiveness in that encounter.
DarknessEternal 03-02-07, 02:38 PM	Properly built you can easily net yourself a +32 to strenght with little effort Incorrect. Untyped bonuses from the same source do not stack. I feel the greatest aspect of Kensai are their social skill bonuses. It is possible to have both an excellent combatant and be great at social skills. Thus creating a character who is good in and out of combat.
The_Shaman 03-02-07, 03:16 PM	Personally, I've always hated the Oath of Service requirement for the Kensai. The entire point of Sword Saints was their complete and total devotion to their weapon not to a lord/ideal/whatever. They are Kensai, not Samurai. I always equated the Sword Saint idea more with the Weapon Master from OA. The Kensai struck me as a "do-it-yourlself OA Samurai" kit.