Looking for Non-evil Assassin PrC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Looking for Non-evil Assassin PrC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kitsunefoxrunner
06-18-07, 11:46 PM I know they are out there but i cant find em. Find i admit, im just to lazy to go about and look through all the past threads searching for em. I figured someone would know were to find one or two (or more) so i would not have to spend hours searching. Thanks!
Rerecros
06-18-07, 11:57 PM slayer of Domiel, book of exalted deeds :yuck:

Honestly your better off simply asking your DM to remove the evil and "kill some one at random" prereqs, it's not that powerful of a class. And it makes perfect sense to be an assassin and still be good, you specializing in killing targets with as few casualties as possible.

The book of exalted deeds is a lame attempt to repair some some of the absurdity in the alignment system, including "good" poisons, positive undead called deathless and this good assassin.
Salla
06-19-07, 12:00 AM You can be an assassin without being an Assassin. Just kill people for money, BANG, you're an assassin. :)
The_Shaman
06-19-07, 02:11 AM Although then you will probably be evil. Killing people for money = evil, as far as I'm concerned.

Let's see, do you want death attack, assassin spellcasting, or what? If it's the DA, I can think of these off the top of my head:

- Black Flame Zealot (UEast / CDivine) - nongood
- Imaskari Vengeance Taker (Underdark) - lawful
- Dark Hunter (er, CAdv, I think - or CWar)
- Shattered Peak Cultist (LEoFaerun), afaik human only
- Monk of the Long Death (PGtFaerun) - nongood iirc
- Darkwood Stalker (Cwar) - only against orcs; elf only
- Justice of Weald and Woe (CoRuin) - iffy RP prerequisites, I would say elf only. Longbow death attack only.
Mister_Sinister
06-19-07, 02:12 AM Staying in rogue is actually not too bad an idea. You can thematically represent 'the assassin' without a single assassin level.

What particular part of the image are you focusing on? Sniping? Powerful, lethal attacks? Sneakyness? Poison?
Rerecros
06-19-07, 02:36 AM Although then you will probably be evil. Killing people for money = evil, as far as I'm concerned.

:eek: Wow, how exactly do you play D&D, the entire economy of the game is based on killing people and taking their stuff.

If you kill indiscriminately for money, you're evil.
But if kill bad people and just happen to get paid for it your good :D
LordFlatulence
06-19-07, 02:56 AM I quite like the assassin class myself, but I never thought that being evil should have been necessary. I mean, their just rogues who have specifically focused themselves into killing and less so all that other rogue stuff like stealing and disabling traps (although that probably comes up every now and then, just less often). So where's the evil? It has been determined without a doubt that killing itself is not evil (ask a paladin), so why should killing someone without letting them have a chance at attacking be evil?

PS. I guess you'd be surprised at how many Paladins' true motives for killing a band of orcs was because he noticed the nice armour the leader was wearing. :D
The_Shaman
06-19-07, 03:04 AM It has been determined without a doubt that killing itself is not evil (ask a paladin), so why should killing someone without letting them have a chance at attacking be evil?

PS. I guess you'd be surprised at how many Paladins' true motives for killing a band of orcs was because he noticed the nice armour the leader was wearing. :D

Seriously, what paladins have you been going around with? Did you boost your sense motive skill high enough :P

@ Rerecros: if money is the main motivation, and killing them your only task, it is imo evil. A good character might get paid for it, but money isn't anything. Also, keep in mind that killing is not the same as defeating, getting through, etc.
calronmoonflower
06-19-07, 03:41 AM The Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a)

It's the assassin class with deferent requirements.
Grimmsfeld
06-19-07, 04:27 AM The Avenger, now this is only my opinion, I believe to be a joke. Check the post date.

Back on topic. If you're not opposed to psionics, you don't even have to get a prestige class. The lurk does basically everything the assassin does, except for the Death Attack (which, IMHO, is a weak ability, unless you have insanely high INT, or take Ability Focus several times.) And it has no particular alignment restrictions.
LordFlatulence
06-19-07, 05:01 AM Seriously, what paladins have you been going around with? Did you boost your sense motive skill high enough :P

The point I'm making is that if a Paladin judges that someone is evil, they have it completely within their moral code to chop their head/s off. Therefore I surmise that the act of killing itself is not evil, it just depends on who you kill and your motives. Therefore an assassin isn't evil just because they kill peoplpe, it is based on their motives for doing so. And their is no assassin class ability based on raking in money, just class abilities to do with killing.
The_Shaman
06-19-07, 05:56 AM As for the assassin, yes, the requirement for evil alignment is simply RP based, that is true. A character that kills only for the cash will be evil regardless of whether he uses magic missile, a stab in the kidneys, or a greatsword through the head to do it.

Somewhat off topic:
I do not know where you have this impression of paladins from. Most of the paladin players I've spoken to and who look like they know what they are talking about are actually very much against the "evil = free-for-all XP" mentality as a proper way to play a paladin or a good character in general, and I would agree. If anything, it can be against the paladin code, as I interpret it, in case of NPCs with evil alignment but not posing any threat to the things a paladin should protect.

Here is a short version of the code, to be adhered to as much as possible within the limits of a paladin's LG alignment and forbiddance from committing evil acts:

- respect legitimate authority,
- act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth),
- help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends)
- and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Presuming that an evil character is not immediately harming and threatening innocents (even then, punishment need not be lethal), I see absolutely no reason for a paladin chop off the head of the LE guard captain. In fact, provided that there are no ulterior chaotic or evil motives, he should help any character in need, regardless of alignment. In fact, a paladin may very well fall from grace when he commits an evil act (say wanton slaughter) against an evil character. This is not to say a paladin should have any problems with killing (some may do), but that s/he needs more justification than the person registering to his "detect evil" ability or even acting like an inconsiderate, cold-hearted jerk.
LordFlatulence
06-19-07, 06:21 PM The point I'm trying to make is not that paladins are bloodthirsty maniacs who kill people just because they show up in red when he uses detect evil. I was actually just using a slight exaggeration to make the point that the act of killing in its own right is not classified as evil, it is the reasons behind the act that determine if the act is evil. I was using paladins as an example of non-evil killing, I was not trying to point out that a paladin will kill as per the opportunity.

PS. Have you ever RPed a paladin who so strongly believed in the idea that there must be no evil that they will kill someone just because their alignment is bad? It is quite fun, but often gets you into a great deal of trouble when your within a city limits. :D The only regret I have is that you can't multiclass paladin/barbarian.
Lord_of_Omnipotence
06-19-07, 06:28 PM The Avenger, now this is only my opinion, I believe to be a joke. Check the post date.

D&D for dummies was also announced on april fool's day and it turned out to be a completely valid product. I see no reason why the avenger wouldn't be a playable class. It's not as if it's overpowered or anything.

Now, if wizards posted something like this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=868384) on april 1st, then i might start to doubt its playability.
Leress
06-19-07, 07:20 PM Okay where is everyone getting this kill for cash for the Assassin from, the requirements are to kill someone to join the guild. Let's not try to turn this into an alignment debate.

I would suggest either talking to your DM to change the RP requirements for the class or just stay rogue and focus more on being more "assassin"-like.

You want spells-boost UMD. If your DM allows for skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel (one of the decent things in that book more or less) there are a number of skill tricks that really make the rogue have more chances to use sneak attack. Want poison use, buy some poison and use a magic item that let's you use fabricate/minor/major creation and make it by the barrel. Get a level of fighter to boost your fort save, a feat, and more weapon options. Heck I recommend this even if you don't stay rogue and take the Assassin route.
Kadessa
06-19-07, 10:30 PM A rogue with use magic device it's better than most of the assassin classes and can be a nasty foe... use wands... and you'll be kick ass.

And like was said before only because you don't have assassin in your chart doesn't mean that you are not one. ^^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kitsunefoxrunner 06-18-07, 11:46 PM	I know they are out there but i cant find em. Find i admit, im just to lazy to go about and look through all the past threads searching for em. I figured someone would know were to find one or two (or more) so i would not have to spend hours searching. Thanks!
Rerecros 06-18-07, 11:57 PM	slayer of Domiel, book of exalted deeds :yuck: Honestly your better off simply asking your DM to remove the evil and "kill some one at random" prereqs, it's not that powerful of a class. And it makes perfect sense to be an assassin and still be good, you specializing in killing targets with as few casualties as possible. The book of exalted deeds is a lame attempt to repair some some of the absurdity in the alignment system, including "good" poisons, positive undead called deathless and this good assassin.
Salla 06-19-07, 12:00 AM	You can be an assassin without being an Assassin. Just kill people for money, BANG, you're an assassin. :)
The_Shaman 06-19-07, 02:11 AM	Although then you will probably be evil. Killing people for money = evil, as far as I'm concerned. Let's see, do you want death attack, assassin spellcasting, or what? If it's the DA, I can think of these off the top of my head: - Black Flame Zealot (UEast / CDivine) - nongood - Imaskari Vengeance Taker (Underdark) - lawful - Dark Hunter (er, CAdv, I think - or CWar) - Shattered Peak Cultist (LEoFaerun), afaik human only - Monk of the Long Death (PGtFaerun) - nongood iirc - Darkwood Stalker (Cwar) - only against orcs; elf only - Justice of Weald and Woe (CoRuin) - iffy RP prerequisites, I would say elf only. Longbow death attack only.
Mister_Sinister 06-19-07, 02:12 AM	Staying in rogue is actually not too bad an idea. You can thematically represent 'the assassin' without a single assassin level. What particular part of the image are you focusing on? Sniping? Powerful, lethal attacks? Sneakyness? Poison?
Rerecros 06-19-07, 02:36 AM	Although then you will probably be evil. Killing people for money = evil, as far as I'm concerned. :eek: Wow, how exactly do you play D&D, the entire economy of the game is based on killing people and taking their stuff. If you kill indiscriminately for money, you're evil. But if kill bad people and just happen to get paid for it your good :D
LordFlatulence 06-19-07, 02:56 AM	I quite like the assassin class myself, but I never thought that being evil should have been necessary. I mean, their just rogues who have specifically focused themselves into killing and less so all that other rogue stuff like stealing and disabling traps (although that probably comes up every now and then, just less often). So where's the evil? It has been determined without a doubt that killing itself is not evil (ask a paladin), so why should killing someone without letting them have a chance at attacking be evil? PS. I guess you'd be surprised at how many Paladins' true motives for killing a band of orcs was because he noticed the nice armour the leader was wearing. :D
The_Shaman 06-19-07, 03:04 AM	It has been determined without a doubt that killing itself is not evil (ask a paladin), so why should killing someone without letting them have a chance at attacking be evil? PS. I guess you'd be surprised at how many Paladins' true motives for killing a band of orcs was because he noticed the nice armour the leader was wearing. :D Seriously, what paladins have you been going around with? Did you boost your sense motive skill high enough :P @ Rerecros: if money is the main motivation, and killing them your only task, it is imo evil. A good character might get paid for it, but money isn't anything. Also, keep in mind that killing is not the same as defeating, getting through, etc.
calronmoonflower 06-19-07, 03:41 AM	The Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) It's the assassin class with deferent requirements.
Grimmsfeld 06-19-07, 04:27 AM	The Avenger, now this is only my opinion, I believe to be a joke. Check the post date. Back on topic. If you're not opposed to psionics, you don't even have to get a prestige class. The lurk does basically everything the assassin does, except for the Death Attack (which, IMHO, is a weak ability, unless you have insanely high INT, or take Ability Focus several times.) And it has no particular alignment restrictions.
LordFlatulence 06-19-07, 05:01 AM	Seriously, what paladins have you been going around with? Did you boost your sense motive skill high enough :P The point I'm making is that if a Paladin judges that someone is evil, they have it completely within their moral code to chop their head/s off. Therefore I surmise that the act of killing itself is not evil, it just depends on who you kill and your motives. Therefore an assassin isn't evil just because they kill peoplpe, it is based on their motives for doing so. And their is no assassin class ability based on raking in money, just class abilities to do with killing.
The_Shaman 06-19-07, 05:56 AM	As for the assassin, yes, the requirement for evil alignment is simply RP based, that is true. A character that kills only for the cash will be evil regardless of whether he uses magic missile, a stab in the kidneys, or a greatsword through the head to do it. Somewhat off topic: I do not know where you have this impression of paladins from. Most of the paladin players I've spoken to and who look like they know what they are talking about are actually very much against the "evil = free-for-all XP" mentality as a proper way to play a paladin or a good character in general, and I would agree. If anything, it can be against the paladin code, as I interpret it, in case of NPCs with evil alignment but not posing any threat to the things a paladin should protect. Here is a short version of the code, to be adhered to as much as possible within the limits of a paladin's LG alignment and forbiddance from committing evil acts: - respect legitimate authority, - act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), - help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends) - and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Presuming that an evil character is not immediately harming and threatening innocents (even then, punishment need not be lethal), I see absolutely no reason for a paladin chop off the head of the LE guard captain. In fact, provided that there are no ulterior chaotic or evil motives, he should help any character in need, regardless of alignment. In fact, a paladin may very well fall from grace when he commits an evil act (say wanton slaughter) against an evil character. This is not to say a paladin should have any problems with killing (some may do), but that s/he needs more justification than the person registering to his "detect evil" ability or even acting like an inconsiderate, cold-hearted jerk.
LordFlatulence 06-19-07, 06:21 PM	The point I'm trying to make is not that paladins are bloodthirsty maniacs who kill people just because they show up in red when he uses detect evil. I was actually just using a slight exaggeration to make the point that the act of killing in its own right is not classified as evil, it is the reasons behind the act that determine if the act is evil. I was using paladins as an example of non-evil killing, I was not trying to point out that a paladin will kill as per the opportunity. PS. Have you ever RPed a paladin who so strongly believed in the idea that there must be no evil that they will kill someone just because their alignment is bad? It is quite fun, but often gets you into a great deal of trouble when your within a city limits. :D The only regret I have is that you can't multiclass paladin/barbarian.
Lord_of_Omnipotence 06-19-07, 06:28 PM	The Avenger, now this is only my opinion, I believe to be a joke. Check the post date. D&D for dummies was also announced on april fool's day and it turned out to be a completely valid product. I see no reason why the avenger wouldn't be a playable class. It's not as if it's overpowered or anything. Now, if wizards posted something like this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=868384) on april 1st, then i might start to doubt its playability.
Leress 06-19-07, 07:20 PM	Okay where is everyone getting this kill for cash for the Assassin from, the requirements are to kill someone to join the guild. Let's not try to turn this into an alignment debate. I would suggest either talking to your DM to change the RP requirements for the class or just stay rogue and focus more on being more "assassin"-like. You want spells-boost UMD. If your DM allows for skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel (one of the decent things in that book more or less) there are a number of skill tricks that really make the rogue have more chances to use sneak attack. Want poison use, buy some poison and use a magic item that let's you use fabricate/minor/major creation and make it by the barrel. Get a level of fighter to boost your fort save, a feat, and more weapon options. Heck I recommend this even if you don't stay rogue and take the Assassin route.
Kadessa 06-19-07, 10:30 PM	A rogue with use magic device it's better than most of the assassin classes and can be a nasty foe... use wands... and you'll be kick ass. And like was said before only because you don't have assassin in your chart doesn't mean that you are not one. ^^