Mage of Arcane Order changes, what is equivalent? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mage of Arcane Order changes, what is equivalent? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maurts12
10-03-07, 11:51 AM So I'm a level 6 sorcerer and I have my eye on the Mage of the Arcane Order prc from complete arcane and I'm going to approach my DM next session with a proposal to change the spellcasting requirement from 'able to prepare arcane spells' to 'able to cast arcane spells' and that the bonus spell option be able to apply to sorcerers since the way I see it, since the Order's Spellpool works by imbuing the caster with a temporary spell, it should be possible for a spontaneous caster to absorb the spells energy to add it to their spells known. I'm just asking if anyone knows anything that I could suggest to my DM as compensation for the above changes.
The_Shaman
10-03-07, 12:12 PM Look, I'll be blunt: it was obviously made for wizards. Sorcerers can enter, but have a harder time doing so as they need to take the Arcane Preparation feat (CArc again) as well. On the other hand, arguably they can find the class benefits even more useful than wizards. While you probably won't break the game with it, by RaW the DM is likely to refuse outright both of these requests. Mind you, with a compensation in the form of a $20 bill s/he might reconsider :P .

To be serious, as likely comensation I'd say you would lose the two bonus metamagic feats: one as a compensation for not taking the Arcane Preparation feat and one for getting several extra spells known.
Maurts12
10-03-07, 01:33 PM Duely noted and whats RaW?
StevenO
10-03-07, 01:49 PM RAW = Rules As Written

As stated it IS possible to legally get a Sorcerer into the Arcane Order where they gain a lot of benefits but it is challenging.
Puca
10-03-07, 02:45 PM The sorcerer gets more: access to the spellpool is more valuable to him.

But he pays more: Arcane Prep sucks balls and he doesnt have a bonus feat to ease the suckiness of Cooperative Spell.

Its pretty well balanced as such.

I'm just asking if anyone knows anything that I could suggest to my DM as compensation for the above changes.I would ask by phone, because he cant smack you from that far away. :)

It depends, if your DM thinks like me, and considers the craptasticness of the prereqs a balancing issue, dont waste you time. You maintain balance by replacing one craptasic feat with something worse.

But, if your DM is one of those who consider sorcerers "weak" then you might just be able to convince him on that basis.

1) Ask him which book the incantrix is in. Just out of curiosity.

2) Ask for replacement abilities for the free spells wizards get for MotAO. Maybe draconic feats or the infernal ones in PHBII. (When he says no to this, he might feel like he should say yes to something else. Love human nature.)

3) Cry that wizards get use a bonus feat to waste on Cooperative Spell.

4) Stress the limits of the spellpool. It is a limited number of spells and spells of a limited level. It wont be used much in combat, since you have to take a full-round to access the pool.

5) Ask which book the incantrix is in again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maurts12 10-03-07, 11:51 AM	So I'm a level 6 sorcerer and I have my eye on the Mage of the Arcane Order prc from complete arcane and I'm going to approach my DM next session with a proposal to change the spellcasting requirement from 'able to prepare arcane spells' to 'able to cast arcane spells' and that the bonus spell option be able to apply to sorcerers since the way I see it, since the Order's Spellpool works by imbuing the caster with a temporary spell, it should be possible for a spontaneous caster to absorb the spells energy to add it to their spells known. I'm just asking if anyone knows anything that I could suggest to my DM as compensation for the above changes.
The_Shaman 10-03-07, 12:12 PM	Look, I'll be blunt: it was obviously made for wizards. Sorcerers can enter, but have a harder time doing so as they need to take the Arcane Preparation feat (CArc again) as well. On the other hand, arguably they can find the class benefits even more useful than wizards. While you probably won't break the game with it, by RaW the DM is likely to refuse outright both of these requests. Mind you, with a compensation in the form of a $20 bill s/he might reconsider :P . To be serious, as likely comensation I'd say you would lose the two bonus metamagic feats: one as a compensation for not taking the Arcane Preparation feat and one for getting several extra spells known.
Maurts12 10-03-07, 01:33 PM	Duely noted and whats RaW?
StevenO 10-03-07, 01:49 PM	RAW = Rules As Written As stated it IS possible to legally get a Sorcerer into the Arcane Order where they gain a lot of benefits but it is challenging.
Puca 10-03-07, 02:45 PM	The sorcerer gets more: access to the spellpool is more valuable to him. But he pays more: Arcane Prep sucks balls and he doesnt have a bonus feat to ease the suckiness of Cooperative Spell. Its pretty well balanced as such. I'm just asking if anyone knows anything that I could suggest to my DM as compensation for the above changes.I would ask by phone, because he cant smack you from that far away. :) It depends, if your DM thinks like me, and considers the craptasticness of the prereqs a balancing issue, dont waste you time. You maintain balance by replacing one craptasic feat with something worse. But, if your DM is one of those who consider sorcerers "weak" then you might just be able to convince him on that basis. 1) Ask him which book the incantrix is in. Just out of curiosity. 2) Ask for replacement abilities for the free spells wizards get for MotAO. Maybe draconic feats or the infernal ones in PHBII. (When he says no to this, he might feel like he should say yes to something else. Love human nature.) 3) Cry that wizards get use a bonus feat to waste on Cooperative Spell. 4) Stress the limits of the spellpool. It is a limited number of spells and spells of a limited level. It wont be used much in combat, since you have to take a full-round to access the pool. 5) Ask which book the incantrix is in again.