Magician [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Magician [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xenu
03-28-07, 12:47 PM Magician

New PRC, arcane spellcaster

Overview
A magician is a wizard or sorceror who have developed a special affinity for simple yet useful tricks. Magicians often work, either as crafters or as entertainers. For this reason, this subclass is often viewed as mundane and thus frowned upon by other casters. The magician gets to cast certain lowlevel spells at will, without having to prepare them or otherwise spend a “spells per day” slot.

Prerequisites: At least one level of either wizard or sorcerer, must be able to cast transmutation and conjuration spells. (That is, must not have a wizard specialization that exclude any of these schools.)

Number of levels: 10

Hitpoints, BAB, saves: As original class

Spells per day: The first level in Magician does not give any spells per day. Each of the remaining nine levels counts as one level of either wizard or sorcerer.

Skill points: 4+Int modifier

Class skills: Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (all), Craft (all), Perform (all)

(Special drawback: Balanced soul.
A Macician values his intelligence, his charisma AND his wisdom. At two times when he get a attribute point for gaining a new level, he must put it on one of these stats, and it may not be the highest one of them. In other words, a wizard will not be allowed t put his points into intelligence, while a sorcerer will not be allowed to put them into charisma.
NOTE: I have yet to decide whether or not to include this drawback in the final version of the PrC.)

Spells at will:
At each level of the magician class, the character gain a low level spell as a spell-like ability that can be used at will, without any limitation to times per day. Unless the magician have the “eschew materials” feat, the spells might still be limited to the supply of material components.

Level 1: Unseen servants
The magician can have one Unseen Servant per level in the magician PrC. Thus, a level X wizard / level 10 magician can have ten unseen servants up at all times, and at a given time he can also have the number of servants that he have prepared and casted from his normal wizard “spells per day” slots. Each servant is a separate casting, so if all servants die from bad weather or from getting out of range or whatever, it will take ten turns to get all ten servants up and running again.

Level 2: Prestidigitation
Level 3: Mending
Level 4: Ventriloquism
Level 5: Mage Hand
Level 6: Dancing lights (variant that counts as a conjuration spell)
Level 7: Message
Level 8: Alter self
Level 9: Fly
Level 10: Melf’s Acid Arrow
Xenu
03-28-07, 12:48 PM Thoughts? Comments?

Personally I'm somewhat worried both about it beeing underpowered and it beeing overpowered. I think I got the balance quite okey on the whole.
Xenu
03-28-07, 12:58 PM The main balance issues are probably:

1. Skill points
2. Fly
3. Acid arrow

The other spells are mostly fluff and flavour. Beeing able to "Alter Self" at will is neat, but at character level 9+ and caster level 8+ it's not a very big bonus to get it "at will" instead of as a normally casted spell.

To be able to cast fly at will is somewhat powerful, and to be able to cast a attack spell, even a minor one, might be as well. "Melf's" is hardly impressive at level 9+, but it do feel good to know that one is never entierly unarmed.

Anyway, power isn't the main aim of this PrC. I want to play one that I can have fun with, goof around with and be all magey all the time without losing too much power. Losing one caster level and a few bonus feats for a bunch of neat tricks and a few more skillpoints sound slike a fair deal to me.
enygmatic_me
03-28-07, 06:06 PM You need to beef up the class skills list some. As is it should only be 2+int mod...even tacking on another 4 or 5 skills it is still only a 2+int mod list.

Fly at will is too powerful at lower levels, and still good by 15th level or so. You prerequisites need to be filled out a lot.

Melf's Acid Arrow at will is too powerful as well. It has more uses then just as a damage spell. Need to get through bars or a door? Melt bars/hinges/locks with Melf's Acid Arrow.

All of those spells at will or very useful to have. Not all of them are broken, but they're more useful then some might think and in the right campaign can be very abusable.

It's a good idea. Just needs some more work.
CantripN
03-28-07, 06:24 PM You people forget about Reserve Feats, don't you? It's a very weak class, actually... Nothing bad will happen if it gave Reserve Feats and several Wizard spells at will...
enygmatic_me
03-28-07, 07:39 PM You people forget about Reserve Feats, don't you? It's a very weak class, actually... Nothing bad will happen if it gave Reserve Feats and several Wizard spells at will...

I didn't forget reserve feats. At will spells are better than reserve feats. Reserve feats at least require you to have a spell with that energy descriptor prepared in a slot to gain their benefit and scale based on the level of the spell prepared. These are just flat bonus, at will spells that have none of those requirements.

Borne Aloft, the closest thing to fly, only allows 30' movement once per round and requires you to begin and end solidly supported. That is not as good as Fly at will.

Acid Splatter does a max of 9d6 points of damage with a max of 45' range. Acid Arrow can do up to 14d4 points of damage and lasts up to 7 rounds dealing that damage and a max range of 1200'.

The spells are far better then the reserve feats.
Xenu
03-29-07, 06:43 AM Skill list

Class skills: Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (all), Craft (all), Perform (all)

Also class skills now: Profession (all), Bluff, Decipher script, Use rope, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape artist, Sense motive.
Xenu
03-29-07, 06:47 AM Flight
This class most certainly need to be able to hover, sit in the air and generally float around.

Fly is overpowered, Levitate slightly underpowered.
Easily solved with a houserule.

The level 9 spell is now Levitate, and it is specified that "Mage hand at will" can be used to pull onself horisontally without having to look undignified or have access to a roof or similar to crawl by.

Thanks for the help, enygmatic_me
Xenu
03-29-07, 06:55 AM You people forget about Reserve Feats, don't you?

I didn't know about reserve feats, but I have now looked them up thanks to you. Thanks.

However, I don't think they change anything.

It's a very weak class, actually... Nothing bad will happen if it gave Reserve Feats and several Wizard spells at will...

Well, I don't know if I WANT anything "bad" to happen.

As for weak, yes.
It have the same offensive power as a wizard/sorceror who is one level lower.
It trades this one level of potential firepower for skillpoints and a lot of minor tricks that might be useful but certainly arn't in the Direct Damage category.

Personally, I would prefer to play a magician over the core class. I like utility. It's appealing to always be able to have unseen servants scouting ahead, to always be able to stay in telepathic contact with the groupmates as long as they are reasonably close, to never have to fear fall damage and to always be able to reach inaccessible spots, and so on.
Xenu
03-29-07, 07:01 AM Melf's Acid Arrow at will is too powerful as well. It has more uses then just as a damage spell. Need to get through bars or a door? Melt bars/hinges/locks with Melf's Acid Arrow.

Might be too powerful yes.
But I don't agree with the second part beeing too powerful, since the DM have full control. For example, the DM chose wether or not the door/bar is made of a material that is affected by the acid. And if he don' want the char to be able to cast the spell, he can make the jailers chain him just as well as taking away his spellbook.

The damage output is what I worry about. Higher level spells are always preferable, for as long as the caster have higher level spells left to cast. But running out of offensive spells is one of the biggest risks of wizardy, and this ability kinda take away that risk. Then again, so does the reserve feats.
enygmatic_me
03-29-07, 10:49 AM Might be too powerful yes.
But I don't agree with the second part beeing too powerful, since the DM have full control. For example, the DM chose wether or not the door/bar is made of a material that is affected by the acid. And if he don' want the char to be able to cast the spell, he can make the jailers chain him just as well as taking away his spellbook.

Their are very few materials that are unaffected by acid and to say that every dungeon that the DM wants to be challenging is going to have glassteel doors and hinges or bars is a huge stretch. Even if that is the case it doesn't stop this class from using acid on the stone or wood the door/hinges/bars/etc...are anchored to.

Also, as an at will ability it is no longer a spell. It is a spell-like ability and thus doesn't require a spellbook to prepare. You would then need to completely immobilize the hands to render the character unable to use it. It is just a matter of pointing and willing the ability to happen.

The damage output is what I worry about. Higher level spells are always preferable, for as long as the caster have higher level spells left to cast. But running out of offensive spells is one of the biggest risks of wizardy, and this ability kinda take away that risk. Then again, so does the reserve feats.

Honestly, damage spells seem to go against the idea of this class. An affinity for simple, useful tricks is not the ability to cast amazingly damaging spells at will. Now, at higher levels Wizards and Sorcerers do have access to better spells than direct damage spells. So does this class though and for the exchange of having slightly less spells per day they gain a bunch of really useful spell-like abilities.

This class is far from weak. As I have already pointed out with Acid Arrow this character is capable of dealing out direct damage better than any casting class out there. Round one, levitate straight up. Round two, Acid Arrow (14d4 over 7 rounds), repeat until target is a bubbling puddle of goo. You can continue to stack the damage on. This at will combo would allow this PrC, by itself, to potentially take out a Tarrasque.

Acid Arrow Over Nine Rounds of Casting
C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 C7 C8 C9
R1 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4
R2 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4
R3 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4
R4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4
R5 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4
R6 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4
R7 2d4 2d4 2d4
R8 2d4 2d4
R9 2d4
Total
Damage 2d4 4d4 6d4 8d4 10d4 12d4 14d4 14d4 14d4

Hopefully that will help illustrate the lethal potential of Acid Arrow. Remember, Acid Arrow also bypasses regeneration in most cases. By the time you get to the 7th casting the target will be taking 14d4 points of acid damage every round. How may things need that much damage to kill? Not a lot, that's the point.

A while back there was a "Street Magician" PrC on the boards that may (or may not) be helpful to use as a comparrison.
Xenu
03-29-07, 04:10 PM Okey, you're right.
Acid Arrow is out.
Too powerful, and doesn't fit the class well enough.

"Polymorph any object" fits the class perfectly, but is also too powerful.
Minor creation or major creation would also fit, but feel very abusable to have as a "at will" spell-lika ability.

I'll have to think a bit more about the final ability.
Duedaine
03-31-07, 11:10 AM What about flare or magic missle? They each coulkd be construed to be entertaining (as in fireworks) plus they would be useful for combat while not being overpowered.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xenu 03-28-07, 12:47 PM	Magician New PRC, arcane spellcaster Overview A magician is a wizard or sorceror who have developed a special affinity for simple yet useful tricks. Magicians often work, either as crafters or as entertainers. For this reason, this subclass is often viewed as mundane and thus frowned upon by other casters. The magician gets to cast certain lowlevel spells at will, without having to prepare them or otherwise spend a “spells per day” slot. Prerequisites: At least one level of either wizard or sorcerer, must be able to cast transmutation and conjuration spells. (That is, must not have a wizard specialization that exclude any of these schools.) Number of levels: 10 Hitpoints, BAB, saves: As original class Spells per day: The first level in Magician does not give any spells per day. Each of the remaining nine levels counts as one level of either wizard or sorcerer. Skill points: 4+Int modifier Class skills: Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (all), Craft (all), Perform (all) (Special drawback: Balanced soul. A Macician values his intelligence, his charisma AND his wisdom. At two times when he get a attribute point for gaining a new level, he must put it on one of these stats, and it may not be the highest one of them. In other words, a wizard will not be allowed t put his points into intelligence, while a sorcerer will not be allowed to put them into charisma. NOTE: I have yet to decide whether or not to include this drawback in the final version of the PrC.) Spells at will: At each level of the magician class, the character gain a low level spell as a spell-like ability that can be used at will, without any limitation to times per day. Unless the magician have the “eschew materials” feat, the spells might still be limited to the supply of material components. Level 1: Unseen servants The magician can have one Unseen Servant per level in the magician PrC. Thus, a level X wizard / level 10 magician can have ten unseen servants up at all times, and at a given time he can also have the number of servants that he have prepared and casted from his normal wizard “spells per day” slots. Each servant is a separate casting, so if all servants die from bad weather or from getting out of range or whatever, it will take ten turns to get all ten servants up and running again. Level 2: Prestidigitation Level 3: Mending Level 4: Ventriloquism Level 5: Mage Hand Level 6: Dancing lights (variant that counts as a conjuration spell) Level 7: Message Level 8: Alter self Level 9: Fly Level 10: Melf’s Acid Arrow
Xenu 03-28-07, 12:48 PM	Thoughts? Comments? Personally I'm somewhat worried both about it beeing underpowered and it beeing overpowered. I think I got the balance quite okey on the whole.
Xenu 03-28-07, 12:58 PM	The main balance issues are probably: 1. Skill points 2. Fly 3. Acid arrow The other spells are mostly fluff and flavour. Beeing able to "Alter Self" at will is neat, but at character level 9+ and caster level 8+ it's not a very big bonus to get it "at will" instead of as a normally casted spell. To be able to cast fly at will is somewhat powerful, and to be able to cast a attack spell, even a minor one, might be as well. "Melf's" is hardly impressive at level 9+, but it do feel good to know that one is never entierly unarmed. Anyway, power isn't the main aim of this PrC. I want to play one that I can have fun with, goof around with and be all magey all the time without losing too much power. Losing one caster level and a few bonus feats for a bunch of neat tricks and a few more skillpoints sound slike a fair deal to me.
enygmatic_me 03-28-07, 06:06 PM	You need to beef up the class skills list some. As is it should only be 2+int mod...even tacking on another 4 or 5 skills it is still only a 2+int mod list. Fly at will is too powerful at lower levels, and still good by 15th level or so. You prerequisites need to be filled out a lot. Melf's Acid Arrow at will is too powerful as well. It has more uses then just as a damage spell. Need to get through bars or a door? Melt bars/hinges/locks with Melf's Acid Arrow. All of those spells at will or very useful to have. Not all of them are broken, but they're more useful then some might think and in the right campaign can be very abusable. It's a good idea. Just needs some more work.
CantripN 03-28-07, 06:24 PM	You people forget about Reserve Feats, don't you? It's a very weak class, actually... Nothing bad will happen if it gave Reserve Feats and several Wizard spells at will...
enygmatic_me 03-28-07, 07:39 PM	You people forget about Reserve Feats, don't you? It's a very weak class, actually... Nothing bad will happen if it gave Reserve Feats and several Wizard spells at will... I didn't forget reserve feats. At will spells are better than reserve feats. Reserve feats at least require you to have a spell with that energy descriptor prepared in a slot to gain their benefit and scale based on the level of the spell prepared. These are just flat bonus, at will spells that have none of those requirements. Borne Aloft, the closest thing to fly, only allows 30' movement once per round and requires you to begin and end solidly supported. That is not as good as Fly at will. Acid Splatter does a max of 9d6 points of damage with a max of 45' range. Acid Arrow can do up to 14d4 points of damage and lasts up to 7 rounds dealing that damage and a max range of 1200'. The spells are far better then the reserve feats.
Xenu 03-29-07, 06:43 AM	Skill list Class skills: Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (all), Craft (all), Perform (all) Also class skills now: Profession (all), Bluff, Decipher script, Use rope, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape artist, Sense motive.
Xenu 03-29-07, 06:47 AM	Flight This class most certainly need to be able to hover, sit in the air and generally float around. Fly is overpowered, Levitate slightly underpowered. Easily solved with a houserule. The level 9 spell is now Levitate, and it is specified that "Mage hand at will" can be used to pull onself horisontally without having to look undignified or have access to a roof or similar to crawl by. Thanks for the help, enygmatic_me
Xenu 03-29-07, 06:55 AM	You people forget about Reserve Feats, don't you? I didn't know about reserve feats, but I have now looked them up thanks to you. Thanks. However, I don't think they change anything. It's a very weak class, actually... Nothing bad will happen if it gave Reserve Feats and several Wizard spells at will... Well, I don't know if I WANT anything "bad" to happen. As for weak, yes. It have the same offensive power as a wizard/sorceror who is one level lower. It trades this one level of potential firepower for skillpoints and a lot of minor tricks that might be useful but certainly arn't in the Direct Damage category. Personally, I would prefer to play a magician over the core class. I like utility. It's appealing to always be able to have unseen servants scouting ahead, to always be able to stay in telepathic contact with the groupmates as long as they are reasonably close, to never have to fear fall damage and to always be able to reach inaccessible spots, and so on.
Xenu 03-29-07, 07:01 AM	Melf's Acid Arrow at will is too powerful as well. It has more uses then just as a damage spell. Need to get through bars or a door? Melt bars/hinges/locks with Melf's Acid Arrow. Might be too powerful yes. But I don't agree with the second part beeing too powerful, since the DM have full control. For example, the DM chose wether or not the door/bar is made of a material that is affected by the acid. And if he don' want the char to be able to cast the spell, he can make the jailers chain him just as well as taking away his spellbook. The damage output is what I worry about. Higher level spells are always preferable, for as long as the caster have higher level spells left to cast. But running out of offensive spells is one of the biggest risks of wizardy, and this ability kinda take away that risk. Then again, so does the reserve feats.
enygmatic_me 03-29-07, 10:49 AM	Might be too powerful yes. But I don't agree with the second part beeing too powerful, since the DM have full control. For example, the DM chose wether or not the door/bar is made of a material that is affected by the acid. And if he don' want the char to be able to cast the spell, he can make the jailers chain him just as well as taking away his spellbook. Their are very few materials that are unaffected by acid and to say that every dungeon that the DM wants to be challenging is going to have glassteel doors and hinges or bars is a huge stretch. Even if that is the case it doesn't stop this class from using acid on the stone or wood the door/hinges/bars/etc...are anchored to. Also, as an at will ability it is no longer a spell. It is a spell-like ability and thus doesn't require a spellbook to prepare. You would then need to completely immobilize the hands to render the character unable to use it. It is just a matter of pointing and willing the ability to happen. The damage output is what I worry about. Higher level spells are always preferable, for as long as the caster have higher level spells left to cast. But running out of offensive spells is one of the biggest risks of wizardy, and this ability kinda take away that risk. Then again, so does the reserve feats. Honestly, damage spells seem to go against the idea of this class. An affinity for simple, useful tricks is not the ability to cast amazingly damaging spells at will. Now, at higher levels Wizards and Sorcerers do have access to better spells than direct damage spells. So does this class though and for the exchange of having slightly less spells per day they gain a bunch of really useful spell-like abilities. This class is far from weak. As I have already pointed out with Acid Arrow this character is capable of dealing out direct damage better than any casting class out there. Round one, levitate straight up. Round two, Acid Arrow (14d4 over 7 rounds), repeat until target is a bubbling puddle of goo. You can continue to stack the damage on. This at will combo would allow this PrC, by itself, to potentially take out a Tarrasque. Acid Arrow Over Nine Rounds of Casting C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 C7 C8 C9 R1 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 R2 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 R3 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 R4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 R5 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 R6 2d4 2d4 2d4 2d4 R7 2d4 2d4 2d4 R8 2d4 2d4 R9 2d4 Total Damage 2d4 4d4 6d4 8d4 10d4 12d4 14d4 14d4 14d4 Hopefully that will help illustrate the lethal potential of Acid Arrow. Remember, Acid Arrow also bypasses regeneration in most cases. By the time you get to the 7th casting the target will be taking 14d4 points of acid damage every round. How may things need that much damage to kill? Not a lot, that's the point. A while back there was a "Street Magician" PrC on the boards that may (or may not) be helpful to use as a comparrison.
Xenu 03-29-07, 04:10 PM	Okey, you're right. Acid Arrow is out. Too powerful, and doesn't fit the class well enough. "Polymorph any object" fits the class perfectly, but is also too powerful. Minor creation or major creation would also fit, but feel very abusable to have as a "at will" spell-lika ability. I'll have to think a bit more about the final ability.
Duedaine 03-31-07, 11:10 AM	What about flare or magic missle? They each coulkd be construed to be entertaining (as in fireworks) plus they would be useful for combat while not being overpowered.