Martial Adept prestige class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Martial Adept prestige class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
blood_of_the_ancient
01-16-07, 11:39 AM Martial Adept
~description~

Prerequisites
BAB +3
8 ranks in any one key discipline skill
Feat: Martial Study

HD: d8
BAB: +3x/4 (as cleric)
Fort: Special
Ref: Special
Will: Special
Skills(4): As class chosen for Class Continuity, plus Martial Lore (Int) and the key skills for your chosen martial disciplines.

Level Special Man. Known Stances Known
1 3 1
2 Class Continuity 3 1
3 Class Continuity 4 1
4 4 1
5 Class Continuity 4 2
6 Class Continuity 5 2
7 5 2
8 Class Continuity 5 2
9 Class Continuity 6 3
10 Swift Restoration 6 3

Class Continuity: When you take your first level of this class, choose one base class that you have levels in. Each time you gain this ability, you gain another effective level in that class for the purpose of class features. In addition. You may not choose a class that grants martial maneuvers for the Class Continuity ability.
Note: While you select the class for this ability at first level, you do not gain any additional class features from it until your reach your second level of Martial Adept.

Saving Throws: At each level of this class, your saving throws improve as though you had taken a level of the class you chose for the Class Continuity ability.

Martial Discipline: Upon taking your first level in this class, you select three martial disciplines to choose your maneuvers and stances from. To select a discipline you must have at least 6 ranks in the key skill for said discipline.

Martial Maneuvers: You use the maneuvers you gain just like you use the maneuver you gained from the Martial Study feat.

Swift Restoration: Three times per day, as a swift action, you may regain the use of one of your martial maneuvers.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-16-07, 11:40 AM Basically, I wanted to design a class so that I could give, say, a druid or a sorcerer some maneuvers without them halting their old class progression, and without fitting them strictly into some other martial class. I am worried it could be under or over powered, I really don't know. Any and all comments are welcome and appreciated.
Iarmeister
01-16-07, 01:34 PM Very interesting idea! Me likey.

However, what is the BAB and SV Throw progression for this PrC??

Also, I don't know about over/under-poweredness...but I can certainly see some base classes benefiting more from the class continuity than others. IE. Monks vs Sorcerers.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-16-07, 01:56 PM BAB is as cleric, saves are discussed right underneat Class Continuity, I think.
RPGfan
01-17-07, 03:59 PM Looks nice, and seems rather balanced, although you may want to increase the prereqisites to 8 ranks instead of 6. That should ensure that it won't be taken until 5th level. Also, you might want to stipulate under Class Continuity that the chosen class be a Non-Martial Adept class to prevent some Munchkin from taking levels in it to skyrocket their Warblade or Swordsage Maneuvers Known.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-17-07, 04:17 PM Why shouldn't it be taken until fifth level?
Tim4488
01-17-07, 04:47 PM Just how prestige classes work, Blood. With the exception of the Stoneborn and the Master Specialist (which both have specific explanations of WHY), all prestige classes are supposed to have prerequisites that keep them from being accessible before 5th level. It's not so prestige-y if a bunch of 3rd level characters are picking them up, after all.

Alternately, you could add an interesting flavor/story reason why this should be accessible early on, I suppose.

It's a neat idea for a class though. I like it.

One question. Do spells count as class features for purpose of class continuity?
RPGfan
01-17-07, 05:00 PM Some Eberron PrCs can be taken at 4th or 3rd, but that's because they're not very powerful and also because Eberron is a rather Low-Level game when compared to others. However, knowing Blood, I'd say spells count as class features.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-17-07, 07:04 PM Correct, RPGfan. Spells do count as class features for me.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-17-07, 07:05 PM Changed: Prereqs, basically went to 8 ranks in one skill, 6 ranks in two others.
Tim4488
01-17-07, 07:51 PM Okay, so a cleric with ranks in Diplomacy and Martial Study picks this class up for White Raven maneuvers and loses... turn/rebuke undead, and nothing else? Same BAB, same HD.

Seems a bit powerful. Then again, I might be underestimating turn/rebuke undead, not sure.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-17-07, 09:12 PM Meh, the cleric would get Turn/Rebuke Undead, actually. But not full spellcasting. Spellcasting would only come in on 6 of the four levels.
Tim4488
01-18-07, 09:32 AM Ah, well, that's true. I didn't read it well enough, my apologies.

What about class skills and skill points? Same with class continuity? Because there's nothing specific up there about it.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-18-07, 10:45 AM Hmm, good point on the skill points.
Tim4488
01-18-07, 10:51 AM Maybe tack on martial lore too. Just an idea.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-18-07, 11:22 AM Good idea.
Gothenem
01-18-07, 06:41 PM Not overly powerful for spellcasters or "class ability dependant" classes. Even for the warrior classes it isn't too huge, as they loose BAB.

However, Swordsage and this class is HUGELY broken, and by the rules is legal.
Warmage and Crusader slightly less so because of the BAB thing, but still broken....
blood_of_the_ancient
01-18-07, 07:21 PM In addition. You may not choose a class that grants martial maneuvers for the Class Continuity ability.
You can't take any of the Tome of Battle classes with it.
Gothenem
01-18-07, 07:27 PM Oops, missed that.

Hmmm, It does seem a bit on the powerful side. I would recommend toning down the number of maneuvers known by 1 each level.

Also, you do not have Readied Maneuvers mentioned. How many can the character ready?
RPGfan
01-18-07, 07:30 PM It says that it works just like Martial Study, so it becomes a once per encounter ability.
Gothenem
01-18-07, 07:50 PM It says that it works just like Martial Study, so it becomes a once per encounter ability.

ALL of his maneuvers known each encounter. Damn, that would make it better than the Warblade, Swordsage or Crusader, all who can only ready a certain number of maneuvers. This class should be the same, and thus it should be listed.

Just my :twocents:
RPGfan
01-18-07, 08:05 PM Actually, the Swordsage gets more Manuevers readied, but you do have a point, Martial Adept does get more Manuevers "readied" than Warblade and Crusader. This wouldn't be a problem though if Known Manuever progression was slowed a tad (maybe one every 3 levels instead of one every 2), but the main balancing factor is Manuever Recovery. Martial Adepts get none until 10th level, and that's only 3 times per day. Warblades get it as part of an attack, Swordsages get it through a sinlge Full-Round Action, and Crusaders get it without even actively doing anything at all. Martial Adept should probably get more Manuevers "readied" than Warblade or Crusader (they have super easy recovery) but making it the same as Swordsage progression is a bit much.
blood_of_the_ancient
01-18-07, 08:17 PM Hmm.... Good points. I lowered the number of maneuvers known a bit.
RPGfan
03-19-07, 09:06 PM This class really needs some flavor to it. So far, all we have is crunch. Fluff is an important part of all PrCs IMHO. Maybe there's a sect of warriors of the Sublime Way who are trying to make their teachings more accessable to other adventurers and members of this class learned from them. Maybe spirits of those who studied under Reshar are whispering secrets to travelers in hopes that Reshar's teachings will survive and members just happened to especially sensitive to such presences. Maybe there's an underlying truth the motions of the Sublime Way that is inherent to all natural movement and members of this class have come to understand that. Just throwing some ideas out there.
blood_of_the_ancient
03-20-07, 01:28 PM Alright. Choose one. Why lock in the flavor for a class this flexible? For something like this, the lack of pre-set flavor is key. It's not it's a prestige class founded by some ancient dwarven hero who was slain by drow, and in his memory a group of dwarven drow-hunters was founded, this is just, "Hi, my name is Fighter, and I wanted to learn to hold a sword way above my head and slash people in that very bizarre stance, and get a couple nifty tricks at the same time. I don't really need all those bonus feats anyway." But if you want to assign a flavor to it, maybe because the Sublime Way is a secretive thing in your campaign, then go ahead, have fun. But what if there are schools all over the place for this stuff? Then you could pick up the basics just by watching.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
blood_of_the_ancient 01-16-07, 11:39 AM	Martial Adept ~description~ Prerequisites BAB +3 8 ranks in any one key discipline skill Feat: Martial Study HD: d8 BAB: +3x/4 (as cleric) Fort: Special Ref: Special Will: Special Skills(4): As class chosen for Class Continuity, plus Martial Lore (Int) and the key skills for your chosen martial disciplines. Level Special Man. Known Stances Known 1 3 1 2 Class Continuity 3 1 3 Class Continuity 4 1 4 4 1 5 Class Continuity 4 2 6 Class Continuity 5 2 7 5 2 8 Class Continuity 5 2 9 Class Continuity 6 3 10 Swift Restoration 6 3 Class Continuity: When you take your first level of this class, choose one base class that you have levels in. Each time you gain this ability, you gain another effective level in that class for the purpose of class features. In addition. You may not choose a class that grants martial maneuvers for the Class Continuity ability. Note: While you select the class for this ability at first level, you do not gain any additional class features from it until your reach your second level of Martial Adept. Saving Throws: At each level of this class, your saving throws improve as though you had taken a level of the class you chose for the Class Continuity ability. Martial Discipline: Upon taking your first level in this class, you select three martial disciplines to choose your maneuvers and stances from. To select a discipline you must have at least 6 ranks in the key skill for said discipline. Martial Maneuvers: You use the maneuvers you gain just like you use the maneuver you gained from the Martial Study feat. Swift Restoration: Three times per day, as a swift action, you may regain the use of one of your martial maneuvers.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-16-07, 11:40 AM	Basically, I wanted to design a class so that I could give, say, a druid or a sorcerer some maneuvers without them halting their old class progression, and without fitting them strictly into some other martial class. I am worried it could be under or over powered, I really don't know. Any and all comments are welcome and appreciated.
Iarmeister 01-16-07, 01:34 PM	Very interesting idea! Me likey. However, what is the BAB and SV Throw progression for this PrC?? Also, I don't know about over/under-poweredness...but I can certainly see some base classes benefiting more from the class continuity than others. IE. Monks vs Sorcerers.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-16-07, 01:56 PM	BAB is as cleric, saves are discussed right underneat Class Continuity, I think.
RPGfan 01-17-07, 03:59 PM	Looks nice, and seems rather balanced, although you may want to increase the prereqisites to 8 ranks instead of 6. That should ensure that it won't be taken until 5th level. Also, you might want to stipulate under Class Continuity that the chosen class be a Non-Martial Adept class to prevent some Munchkin from taking levels in it to skyrocket their Warblade or Swordsage Maneuvers Known.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-17-07, 04:17 PM	Why shouldn't it be taken until fifth level?
Tim4488 01-17-07, 04:47 PM	Just how prestige classes work, Blood. With the exception of the Stoneborn and the Master Specialist (which both have specific explanations of WHY), all prestige classes are supposed to have prerequisites that keep them from being accessible before 5th level. It's not so prestige-y if a bunch of 3rd level characters are picking them up, after all. Alternately, you could add an interesting flavor/story reason why this should be accessible early on, I suppose. It's a neat idea for a class though. I like it. One question. Do spells count as class features for purpose of class continuity?
RPGfan 01-17-07, 05:00 PM	Some Eberron PrCs can be taken at 4th or 3rd, but that's because they're not very powerful and also because Eberron is a rather Low-Level game when compared to others. However, knowing Blood, I'd say spells count as class features.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-17-07, 07:04 PM	Correct, RPGfan. Spells do count as class features for me.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-17-07, 07:05 PM	Changed: Prereqs, basically went to 8 ranks in one skill, 6 ranks in two others.
Tim4488 01-17-07, 07:51 PM	Okay, so a cleric with ranks in Diplomacy and Martial Study picks this class up for White Raven maneuvers and loses... turn/rebuke undead, and nothing else? Same BAB, same HD. Seems a bit powerful. Then again, I might be underestimating turn/rebuke undead, not sure.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-17-07, 09:12 PM	Meh, the cleric would get Turn/Rebuke Undead, actually. But not full spellcasting. Spellcasting would only come in on 6 of the four levels.
Tim4488 01-18-07, 09:32 AM	Ah, well, that's true. I didn't read it well enough, my apologies. What about class skills and skill points? Same with class continuity? Because there's nothing specific up there about it.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-18-07, 10:45 AM	Hmm, good point on the skill points.
Tim4488 01-18-07, 10:51 AM	Maybe tack on martial lore too. Just an idea.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-18-07, 11:22 AM	Good idea.
Gothenem 01-18-07, 06:41 PM	Not overly powerful for spellcasters or "class ability dependant" classes. Even for the warrior classes it isn't too huge, as they loose BAB. However, Swordsage and this class is HUGELY broken, and by the rules is legal. Warmage and Crusader slightly less so because of the BAB thing, but still broken....
blood_of_the_ancient 01-18-07, 07:21 PM	In addition. You may not choose a class that grants martial maneuvers for the Class Continuity ability. You can't take any of the Tome of Battle classes with it.
Gothenem 01-18-07, 07:27 PM	Oops, missed that. Hmmm, It does seem a bit on the powerful side. I would recommend toning down the number of maneuvers known by 1 each level. Also, you do not have Readied Maneuvers mentioned. How many can the character ready?
RPGfan 01-18-07, 07:30 PM	It says that it works just like Martial Study, so it becomes a once per encounter ability.
Gothenem 01-18-07, 07:50 PM	It says that it works just like Martial Study, so it becomes a once per encounter ability. ALL of his maneuvers known each encounter. Damn, that would make it better than the Warblade, Swordsage or Crusader, all who can only ready a certain number of maneuvers. This class should be the same, and thus it should be listed. Just my :twocents:
RPGfan 01-18-07, 08:05 PM	Actually, the Swordsage gets more Manuevers readied, but you do have a point, Martial Adept does get more Manuevers "readied" than Warblade and Crusader. This wouldn't be a problem though if Known Manuever progression was slowed a tad (maybe one every 3 levels instead of one every 2), but the main balancing factor is Manuever Recovery. Martial Adepts get none until 10th level, and that's only 3 times per day. Warblades get it as part of an attack, Swordsages get it through a sinlge Full-Round Action, and Crusaders get it without even actively doing anything at all. Martial Adept should probably get more Manuevers "readied" than Warblade or Crusader (they have super easy recovery) but making it the same as Swordsage progression is a bit much.
blood_of_the_ancient 01-18-07, 08:17 PM	Hmm.... Good points. I lowered the number of maneuvers known a bit.
RPGfan 03-19-07, 09:06 PM	This class really needs some flavor to it. So far, all we have is crunch. Fluff is an important part of all PrCs IMHO. Maybe there's a sect of warriors of the Sublime Way who are trying to make their teachings more accessable to other adventurers and members of this class learned from them. Maybe spirits of those who studied under Reshar are whispering secrets to travelers in hopes that Reshar's teachings will survive and members just happened to especially sensitive to such presences. Maybe there's an underlying truth the motions of the Sublime Way that is inherent to all natural movement and members of this class have come to understand that. Just throwing some ideas out there.
blood_of_the_ancient 03-20-07, 01:28 PM	Alright. Choose one. Why lock in the flavor for a class this flexible? For something like this, the lack of pre-set flavor is key. It's not it's a prestige class founded by some ancient dwarven hero who was slain by drow, and in his memory a group of dwarven drow-hunters was founded, this is just, "Hi, my name is Fighter, and I wanted to learn to hold a sword way above my head and slash people in that very bizarre stance, and get a couple nifty tricks at the same time. I don't really need all those bonus feats anyway." But if you want to assign a flavor to it, maybe because the Sublime Way is a secretive thing in your campaign, then go ahead, have fun. But what if there are schools all over the place for this stuff? Then you could pick up the basics just by watching.