Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mordin 08-16-07, 06:29 PM	Master Entertainer Requirements: Skills: Perform (any) 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcane) 8 ranks, Sleight of Hand 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks. Spells: Able to cast 1st level arcane spells, one of which must be an Illusion (figment) spells. Feats: Skill Focus (Concentration), Skill Focus (Perform [any one]). Special: Bardic music ability. Class Features: BAB: Poor (as wizard). Good Saves: Reflex and Will Poor Saves: Fort. Hit Dice: 1d6 Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentrate (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silent (Dex), Perform (all skills, taken individually) (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha). Skill Points at Each Level: 4+ Int modifier. LEVEL ABILITIES: 1. Bardic music, bardic knowledge, fascinate, suggestion. ------------------------------- 2. Illusion familiarity, disguise spell, +1 arcane spellcaster level 3. Lasting impression, master illusionist +1, +1 arcane spellcaster level 4. Skill mastery, +1 arcane spellcaster level 5. Song of persuasion, +1 arcane spellcaster level 6. Improved fascination, +1 arcane spellcaster level 7. Combine song, +1 arcane spellcaster level 8. Song of imagery, +1 arcane spellcaster level 9. Master illusionist +2, +1 arcane spellcaster level 10. Mass suggestion, +1 arcane spellcaster level Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A master entertainer gains no additional proficiencies. Spells per Day/Spells Known: Starting at 2nd level, a master entertainer gains spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he/she had also gained a level in the spellcasting class to which he/she belonged before adding the prestige class. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a master entertainer, he/she must decide to which class he/she adds each level of the master entertainer. He/she dose not, however, gain any other benefit(s) a character of the class would have gained (additional bardic music abilities, metamagic or item creation feats or the like). Bardic Music: Master entertainer levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining the master entertainer’s daily uses of his/her bardic music abilities. • Fascinate (Sp): A master entertainer levels stack with bard levels to determine how many people his/her fascinate ability effects. • Suggestion (Sp): A master entertainer with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he/she has already fascinated. Using this ability dose not break the master entertainer’s concentration on the fascinate effect. Making a suggestion doesn’t count against a master entertainer’s daily limit on bardic music performances. A Will saving throw (DC 10 + ½ bard’s level + Cha modifier) negates the effect (treat master entertainer levels as bard levels to determine the Will save). This ability affects only a single creature (but see mass suggestion, below). Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability. • Song of Persuasion (Sp): A master entertainer of 5th level with 13 ranks in a Perform skill can deliver a performance that sways the attitude of his/her audience. Treat this as a Diplomacy check made to influence NPC attitudes (see pages 71-72 of the Player’s Handbook), but replace the Diplomacy check with a Perform check. Viewers must be within 30 Feet of the master entertainer, be able to see and hear him/her clearly and be willingly paying attention to his/her performance. This ability requires at least 10 consecutive rounds of concentration to take effect and it can affect a particular creature only once per day. Hostile audience members can’t be influenced with this ability. • Song of Imagery (Sp): A master entertainer of 8th level with 16 ranks in a Perform skill can create illusions simply by performing. A master entertainer can cast any illusion spell he/she has access (spells known or in his/her spell book) to by expending a daily use of bardic music equal to the level of the spell he/she wishes to cast minus 1 (minimum of 1 use, if a scroll is used as the master entertainer’s reference the scroll is destroyed during the casting normally). Casting a spell in this way take 1 rounds of uninterrupted concentration per level of the spell being cast. Using this ability dose not break the master entertainer’s concentration on other song effects. For example, Melody uses this ability to cast Major Image, she would have to perform for 3 rounds uninterrupted and spend two uses of her bardic music. • Mass Suggestion (Sp): This ability functions like suggestion, above, except that a master entertainer of 10th level with 18 ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion simultaneously to any number of creatures that he/she has already fascinated (see bardic music page 29 of the Player’s Handbook). Mass Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability. Bardic Knowledge: Master entertainer knows that every great story has a bit of truth to it. Master entertainer levels stack with bard levels to determine the bonus gained on bardic knowledge checks. Disguise Spell: A master entertainer learns that it’s more entertaining when a story comes to life while the music is playing. A master entertainer gains the Disguise Spell feat as a bonus feat. Illusion Familiarity (Ex): At 2nd level, a master entertainer gains a bonus spell slot per spell level that he/she may use to cast (or prepare if applicable) an additional illusion spell each day. In addition a master entertainer knows one more spell per level; this spell may be any illusion (figment) spell and must be a spell the master entertainer is able to cast. Master Illusionist (Ex): At 3rd level, a master entertainer learns that a performance isn’t great unless everyone believes what they’re seeing. A master entertainer’s illusions are more difficult to overcome. The DC’s for all illusions cast by a master entertainer are increased by +1. This bonus increases to +2 at 9th level. These bonuses stack with those granted by Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus feats and similar abilities. Lasting Impression (Sp): At 3rd level, a master entertainer learns that a true performance requires more than just music and feats of dexterity. Illusion (figment) spells no longer require concentration, they stay active as long as the master entertainer is within 15 ft. of the illusion or until it normally expirers whichever is longer. If the master entertainer becomes unconscious or dies the illusion ends immediately. Skill Mastery (Ex): A master entertainer is so confident in the use of certain skills that he/she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. He/she selects a number of skills equal to 1+ his/her Int modifier from the fallowing list; Balance, Concentration, Disguise, Jump, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (royalty and nobility), Perform (any), Slight of Hand, Tumble or Use Magic Device. When making a check with one of these skills, he/she may take a 10 even if stress or distractions would normally prevent him/her from doing so. Improved Fascination (Sp): At 6th level, a master entertainer has improved his/her ability to fascinate those he/she entertains. From now on a master entertainer may affect one additional target per two class levels (round down), with his/her fascinate bardic music ability. Combine Song (Ex): A master entertainer of 7th level or higher can combine two types of bardic music to provide the benefits of both. The master entertainer chooses two music abilities and activates both (he/she must still activate each of these song individually expending a use of bardic music for each song) using the same standard action. If either or both require concentration, the master entertainer can maintain concentration on both by using one standard action each round to concentrate. The normal stacking rules for bonus types apply to music abilities combined with this ability.
Mordin 08-23-07, 11:01 PM	:bump: OK so dose this class really suck that bad. :allalone: I created it with a gnome bard/illusionist in mind.
bkdubs123 08-24-07, 02:31 AM	No, actually this is INCREDIBLY cool. I can't believe I haven't seen anything like it before. The idea is incredibly sound and the synergy is wonderful. I really can't find anything I don't like about this class to tell you the truth!
Mordin 08-24-07, 10:25 PM	Good to know thanx, what do you think of the balance. If someone goes strait Bard I can see it not being too bad but I seem to overlook class combos that can break some PrC's. Any thoughts.
Mordin 08-30-07, 08:26 PM	:bump: Just hoping for some more feedback good/bad this is the worst PrC ever anything really. Thanx
bkdubs123 08-30-07, 08:48 PM	I'll have a friend look at it. He LOVES illusion magic and this class is right up his alley.
Mordin 08-30-07, 10:06 PM	Cool I would love that I love feedback. I usually make overpowered PrC's and tame them down as I get more input. Thanx again :D
bkdubs123 09-02-07, 06:36 PM	Okay, had the friend look at it. He LOVED the crap out of it. Especially the abilities that synergized Bardic Music with Illusion magic. The ones that were either just Illusionist or Bard stuff he didn't like nearly as much. He said that Song of Persuasion might be his favorite part about the whole class, so that's good to know. He also said he loved Song of Imagery, but that he wished Master Entertainer got it earlier. He's amazingly greatful for Illusion Familiarity since it makes this class much more viable with his favorite class (the Sorcerer). And is glad for Master Illusionist since he normally would rather not have to take those feats (he prefers more character driven feats than point and power driven ones). Lasting Impression makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside and reminds him of my beloved but failed iterative, non-vancian, skill-based casting system (lol try saying that 5 times fast) in that he can pull off multiple magical effects at once (especially when combined with Song of Imagery). He however mildly dislikes Mass Suggestion and Combine Song, and absolutely detests Improved Fascinate. I share his sentiment. Fascinate is exceedingly broken. Its FAR too easy to ruin games with it, even if all you ever do is put max ranks into Perform. With a masterwork instrument, skill focus, and other goodies you can force the Will save into the impossible, and even with the number of foes you can effect as is, its just too good. I agree with him on Improved Fascinate and Combine Song. If you want to keep Improved Fascinate link it somehow to Illusion magic. Perhaps you get that benefit if you have a Figment spell active. As far as Combine Song is concerned we feel that its a fine ability, but that it really has no place in this PrC flavorwise or mechanic wise. (Mass Suggestion should probably stay just because the Bard half of this hybrid needs some love.) Finally he suggested a moving around of abilities which I'm not entirely sure of, but I'll post his suggestion just so you can look at it for yourself: Combine Song at level 8, Master Illusionist +2 at 7th, Improved Fascinate at 9th, Song of Imagery at 4th, Skill Mastery at 5th, Song of Persuasion at 3rd (I say 4th for this and 3rd for Imagery), and Lasting Impression at 6th. So there you have it! More feedback! I'm actually quite surprised no one else has commented on this class...
Mordin 09-03-07, 12:20 PM	Ok first I’m eternally grateful for the input I've been tossing up the idea of moving things around (songs in particular) for about a year now. As far as Combine Song is concerned the reason I have it there is so the “bard” can perform and entertain the crowd with his/her music while the “illusionist” brings the story to life at the same time (i.e. combine song/song of imagery). It is also one of the reasons for Skill Focus (concentration) as a prerequisite. It takes some major concentration to do what the master entertainer dose. Improved Fascination is one of the reasons I needed feedback so badly this is the only Bard PrC I’ve ever made and I have never player one so I’m not greatly familiar with the “loopholes” of the Bard. I have to agree with your friend that things needed to be moved around I just needed help figuring that part out. I have to agree with receiving song of imagery early it is one of the corner stones of this class IMO.
Mordin 09-03-07, 12:32 PM	Master Entertainer Requirements: Skills: Perform (any) 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcane) 8 ranks, Sleight of Hand 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks. Spells: Able to cast 1st level arcane spells, one of which must be an Illusion (figment) spells. Feats: Skill Focus (Concentration), Skill Focus (Perform [any one]). Special: Bardic music ability. Class Features: BAB: Poor (as wizard). Good Saves: Reflex and Will Poor Saves: Fort. Hit Dice: 1d6 Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentrate (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silent (Dex), Perform (all skills, taken individually) (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha). Skill Points at Each Level: 4+ Int modifier. LEVEL ABILITIES: 1. Bardic music, bardic knowledge, fascinate, suggestion. ------------------------------- 2. Illusion familiarity, disguise spell, +1 arcane spellcaster level 3. Song of imagery, +1 arcane spellcaster level 4. Song of persuasion, master illusionist +1, +1 arcane spellcaster level 5. Skill mastery, +1 arcane spellcaster level 6. Lasting impression, +1 arcane spellcaster level 7. Combine song, +1 arcane spellcaster level 8. Master illusionist +2, +1 arcane spellcaster level 9. Improved fascination, +1 arcane spellcaster level 10. Mass suggestion, +1 arcane spellcaster level Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A master entertainer gains no additional proficiencies. Spells per Day/Spells Known: Starting at 2nd level, a master entertainer gains spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he/she had also gained a level in the spellcasting class to which he/she belonged before adding the prestige class. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a master entertainer, he/she must decide to which class he/she adds each level of the master entertainer. He/she dose not, however, gain any other benefit(s) a character of the class would have gained (additional bardic music abilities, metamagic, item creation feats or the like). Bardic Music: Master entertainer levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining the master entertainer’s daily uses of his/her bardic music abilities. • Fascinate (Sp): A master entertainer levels stack with bard levels to determine how many people his/her fascinate ability effects. • Suggestion (Sp): A master entertainer with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he/she has already fascinated. Using this ability dose not break the master entertainer’s concentration on the fascinate effect. Making a suggestion doesn’t count against a master entertainer’s daily limit on bardic music performances. A Will saving throw (DC 10 + ½ bard’s level + Cha modifier) negates the effect (treat master entertainer levels as bard levels to determine the Will save). This ability affects only a single creature (but see mass suggestion, below). Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability. • Song of Imagery (Sp): A master entertainer of 3rd level with 11 ranks in a Perform skill can create illusions simply by performing. A master entertainer can cast any illusion spell he/she has access (spells known or in his/her spell book) to by expending a daily use of bardic music equal to the level of the spell he/she wishes to cast minus 1 (minimum of 1 use, if a scroll is used as the master entertainer’s reference the scroll is destroyed during the casting normally). Casting spells in this way take 1 round(s) of uninterrupted concentration per level of the spell being cast. Using this ability dose not break the master entertainer’s concentration on other song effects. For example, Melody uses this ability to cast Major Image, she would have to perform for 3 rounds uninterrupted and spend two uses of her bardic music. • Song of Persuasion (Sp): A master entertainer of 4th level with 12 ranks in a Perform skill can deliver a performance that sways the attitude of his/her audience. Treat this as a Diplomacy check made to influence NPC attitudes (see pages 71-72 of the Player’s Handbook), but replace the Diplomacy check with a Perform check. Viewers must be within 30 Feet of the master entertainer, be able to see and hear him/her clearly and be willingly paying attention to his/her performance. This ability requires at least 10 consecutive rounds of concentration to take effect and it can affect a particular creature only once per day. Hostile audience members can’t be influenced with this ability. • Mass Suggestion (Sp): This ability functions like suggestion, above, except that a master entertainer of 10th level with 18 ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion simultaneously to any number of creatures that he/she has already fascinated (see bardic music page 29 of the Player’s Handbook). Mass Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability. Bardic Knowledge: Master entertainer knows that every great story has a bit of truth to it. Master entertainer levels stack with bard levels to determine the bonus gained on bardic knowledge checks. Disguise Spell: A master entertainer learns that it’s more entertaining when a story comes to life while the music is playing. A master entertainer gains the Disguise Spell feat as a bonus feat. Illusion Familiarity (Ex): At 2nd level, a master entertainer gains a bonus spell slot per spell level that he/she may use to cast (or prepare if applicable) an additional illusion spell each day. In addition a master entertainer knows one more spell per level; this spell may be any illusion (figment) spell and must be a spell the master entertainer is able to cast. Master Illusionist (Ex): At 4th level, a master entertainer learns that a performance isn’t great unless everyone believes what they’re seeing. A master entertainer’s illusions are more difficult to overcome. The DC’s for all illusions cast by a master entertainer are increased by +1. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level. These bonuses stack with those granted by Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus feats and similar abilities. Skill Mastery (Ex): A master entertainer is so confident in the use of certain skills that he/she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. He/she selects a number of skills equal to 1+ his/her Int modifier from the fallowing list; Balance, Concentration, Disguise, Jump, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (royalty and nobility), Perform (any), Slight of Hand, Tumble or Use Magic Device. When making a check with one of these skills, he/she may take a 10 even if stress or distractions would normally prevent him/her from doing so. Lasting Impression (Sp): At 6th level, a master entertainer learns that a true performance requires more than just music and feats of dexterity. Illusion (figment) spells no longer require concentration, they stay active as long as the master entertainer is within 15 ft. of the illusion or until it normally expirers whichever is longer. If the master entertainer becomes unconscious or dies the illusion ends immediately. Combine Song (Ex): A master entertainer of 8th level or higher can combine two types of bardic music to provide the benefits of both. The master entertainer chooses two music abilities and activates both (he/she must still activate each of these song individually expending a use of bardic music for each song) using the same standard action. If either or both require concentration, the master entertainer can maintain concentration on both by using one standard action each round to concentrate. The normal stacking rules for bonus types apply to music abilities combined with this ability. Improved Fascination (Sp): At 9th level, a master entertainer has improved his/her ability to fascinate those he/she entertains. As long as there is an illusion (figment) spell active a master entertainer gains a +2 competency bonus to his/her Perform check made to fascinate his/her audience.
bkdubs123 09-03-07, 03:36 PM	Hmm... this feels better. I would just remove Improved Fascination entirely at this point. The bonus is now so negligible that it honestly doesn't ever need to be there. Here's how fascinate works (highly abridged): You have perform (tralala) and you have fascinate. You make a perform check targetting a couple of dudes and they have to make a Will save against your perform check. Hold on a second, maybe you didn't catch the significance of that. The Will save DC against fascinate is 1d20 + your charisma modifier + your ranks in perform + any other relevant modifiers to your perform skill. Holy Toledo! So, its not really a problem with your ability or class in the least its just that Fascinate is stupidly broken. At level one you can have what +10 to your check without much trouble? So that makes the save anywhere from 11 to 30! Oh, and you may also want to remove Perform from the list of skills you can get Skill Mastery with. Just to be on the safe side.
Mordin 09-03-07, 04:51 PM	Oh, and you may also want to remove Perform from the list of skills you can get Skill Mastery with. Just to be on the safe side. Just in case you overlooked something that can be abused I'm guessing. I can’t actually see it being used under distress anyways. My only problem with removing it entirely is that I hate dead levels in PrC's. But as is, it isn't a very desirable ability anyways at that level. Any thaughts on an ability to replace it something simple?
Mordin 09-03-07, 04:55 PM	My only concern now is that it seems a bit front loaded, any thoughts?