Master of Masks skill list... a bit odd? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Master of Masks skill list... a bit odd? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tim4488
06-23-07, 02:09 PM I have a player joining the party as a Rogue 4/Beguiler 1, and the entire party will soon level up. He plans to become a Master of Masks, and as I looked at the skill list, it seemed a little bit off. A few skills seemed to be lacking.

I suppose first off it's worth noting that the entire class skill list is accessible by a MoM with intelligence 18, or a human with intelligence 16. Generally classes are built so that there are more class skills than can be chosen (albeit it takes a high intelligence, but it's still fairly accessible.)

So I was considering adding the following: Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive. The MoM is a pretty obvious choice for a face character, and I think they all make sense for a MoM. Diplomacy just sort of naturally follows, someone with a fluid identity and shifting to role to role should be able to gather information fairly easily, and an actor needs to be able to read his audience for a live stage performance, hence sense motive.

I don't think it'll throw the class out of whack, but I just wanted to get opinions? Good? Bad? Add one or two of the above, but not all three? Etc?

EDIT:

Well I'm at it... Tumble? Not necessary, but actors often need some kind of acrobatic skill. Especially a medieval type. Then again, maybe that's what the Jester mask is for. I dunno.
Empiro
06-23-07, 03:02 PM The class is just...poor. Great idea, but terrible execution. I'd just avoid the class or rewrite it altogether.
Tim4488
06-25-07, 11:38 AM Whether or not that's true, I'm sure he will take levels in the class anyway. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it'll work out fine.

No offense intended, but any responses that actually help me with my question?
RealSorceror
06-25-07, 01:23 PM Is he a Human? If so, just have him take the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny. That'll make all cross-class skills cost 1 skill point instead of 2.
Also, it will allow him to later qualify for the Chameleon prc, which is very similar to MoM. Chameleon is more powerful, but can't switch classes on the fly like a MoM can.

In any event, no, I don't think its a problem to add a few Charisma based skills to the Master of Masks list. They make sense, and after all, you are the DM.

And just for kicks, the Binder from Tome Of Magic is a neat base class for a Master or Chameleon (just have the MoM grant new Soul Binding levels instead of Spell caster levels).
goawayugh
06-25-07, 01:26 PM MoM is a very interesting idea, but a VERY weak class. Try directing him towards Chameleon (RoD).
RealSorceror
06-25-07, 01:33 PM MoM is a very interesting idea, but a VERY weak class. Try directing him towards Chameleon (RoD).
Agreed, although the class isn't a complete waste. Do you think a better BAB would fix it? I see a lot of Rodue-types entering this class, so shouldn't it use a Rogue's BAB? (I've personally only used it after epic level, so BAB wasn't an issue).
goawayugh
06-25-07, 01:44 PM It should have an average BAB (like Rogue). The only ones that get poor BAB are full casters and this only has 4/10 progression....

Very poorly designed class.
Tim4488
06-25-07, 03:14 PM He's not human, he's changeling. Chameleon's out.

However, I think I'll go with a 3/4 BAB and add Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Sense Motive. Thanks to those that offered suggestions.
Khatoblepas
06-25-07, 03:24 PM He's not human, he's changeling. Chameleon's out.

Chameleon's in, as Changelings can enter Chameleon. :P Specifically noted in Races of Destiny. What, you think Dopplegangers and Humans don't include Changelings, the Dopplegangerblood Human? o.O
goawayugh
06-25-07, 03:25 PM I've often heard of house ruling Changelings as also qualifying for Chameleon. I'm VERY against house rules and anything that is not in an official book, but I would even consider this.
RealSorceror
06-25-07, 04:08 PM I've often heard of house ruling Changelings as also qualifying for Chameleon. I'm VERY against house rules and anything that is not in an official book, but I would even consider this.
No need for houserules. As Khatoblepas pointed out, Races of Destiny specifically mentions Changelings as quaifying for the Chameleon prc. Changelings do have human heritage, after all.
goawayugh
06-25-07, 05:30 PM No need for houserules. As Khatoblepas pointed out, Races of Destiny specifically mentions Changelings as quaifying for the Chameleon prc. Changelings do have human heritage, after all.

I do remember hearing that now. Shows how much I use that book.
Tim4488
06-25-07, 08:51 PM Eh, I'll give it a look. Couple things though, the character is already starved for feats, and the player is very into the thespian aspect of the Master of Masks. I did mention Cabinet Trickster from Races of Eberron to him as a possible later option (though he'll be leaving the campaign in late August for college, so it's doubtful we'll get that high).

Eh. I'll mention it to him, but I think he really enjoys the MoM thing, and anyway, with 3/4 BAB and a few added skills it should be fine. Not like the party is starving for combat potential anyway, between a fighter, warlock, ranger and shadowcaster. They mostly need a face character, and he's got that well down.

Thank you, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tim4488 06-23-07, 02:09 PM	I have a player joining the party as a Rogue 4/Beguiler 1, and the entire party will soon level up. He plans to become a Master of Masks, and as I looked at the skill list, it seemed a little bit off. A few skills seemed to be lacking. I suppose first off it's worth noting that the entire class skill list is accessible by a MoM with intelligence 18, or a human with intelligence 16. Generally classes are built so that there are more class skills than can be chosen (albeit it takes a high intelligence, but it's still fairly accessible.) So I was considering adding the following: Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive. The MoM is a pretty obvious choice for a face character, and I think they all make sense for a MoM. Diplomacy just sort of naturally follows, someone with a fluid identity and shifting to role to role should be able to gather information fairly easily, and an actor needs to be able to read his audience for a live stage performance, hence sense motive. I don't think it'll throw the class out of whack, but I just wanted to get opinions? Good? Bad? Add one or two of the above, but not all three? Etc? EDIT: Well I'm at it... Tumble? Not necessary, but actors often need some kind of acrobatic skill. Especially a medieval type. Then again, maybe that's what the Jester mask is for. I dunno.
Empiro 06-23-07, 03:02 PM	The class is just...poor. Great idea, but terrible execution. I'd just avoid the class or rewrite it altogether.
Tim4488 06-25-07, 11:38 AM	Whether or not that's true, I'm sure he will take levels in the class anyway. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it'll work out fine. No offense intended, but any responses that actually help me with my question?
RealSorceror 06-25-07, 01:23 PM	Is he a Human? If so, just have him take the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny. That'll make all cross-class skills cost 1 skill point instead of 2. Also, it will allow him to later qualify for the Chameleon prc, which is very similar to MoM. Chameleon is more powerful, but can't switch classes on the fly like a MoM can. In any event, no, I don't think its a problem to add a few Charisma based skills to the Master of Masks list. They make sense, and after all, you are the DM. And just for kicks, the Binder from Tome Of Magic is a neat base class for a Master or Chameleon (just have the MoM grant new Soul Binding levels instead of Spell caster levels).
goawayugh 06-25-07, 01:26 PM	MoM is a very interesting idea, but a VERY weak class. Try directing him towards Chameleon (RoD).
RealSorceror 06-25-07, 01:33 PM	MoM is a very interesting idea, but a VERY weak class. Try directing him towards Chameleon (RoD). Agreed, although the class isn't a complete waste. Do you think a better BAB would fix it? I see a lot of Rodue-types entering this class, so shouldn't it use a Rogue's BAB? (I've personally only used it after epic level, so BAB wasn't an issue).
goawayugh 06-25-07, 01:44 PM	It should have an average BAB (like Rogue). The only ones that get poor BAB are full casters and this only has 4/10 progression.... Very poorly designed class.
Tim4488 06-25-07, 03:14 PM	He's not human, he's changeling. Chameleon's out. However, I think I'll go with a 3/4 BAB and add Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Sense Motive. Thanks to those that offered suggestions.
Khatoblepas 06-25-07, 03:24 PM	He's not human, he's changeling. Chameleon's out. Chameleon's in, as Changelings can enter Chameleon. :P Specifically noted in Races of Destiny. What, you think Dopplegangers and Humans don't include Changelings, the Dopplegangerblood Human? o.O
goawayugh 06-25-07, 03:25 PM	I've often heard of house ruling Changelings as also qualifying for Chameleon. I'm VERY against house rules and anything that is not in an official book, but I would even consider this.
RealSorceror 06-25-07, 04:08 PM	I've often heard of house ruling Changelings as also qualifying for Chameleon. I'm VERY against house rules and anything that is not in an official book, but I would even consider this. No need for houserules. As Khatoblepas pointed out, Races of Destiny specifically mentions Changelings as quaifying for the Chameleon prc. Changelings do have human heritage, after all.
goawayugh 06-25-07, 05:30 PM	No need for houserules. As Khatoblepas pointed out, Races of Destiny specifically mentions Changelings as quaifying for the Chameleon prc. Changelings do have human heritage, after all. I do remember hearing that now. Shows how much I use that book.
Tim4488 06-25-07, 08:51 PM	Eh, I'll give it a look. Couple things though, the character is already starved for feats, and the player is very into the thespian aspect of the Master of Masks. I did mention Cabinet Trickster from Races of Eberron to him as a possible later option (though he'll be leaving the campaign in late August for college, so it's doubtful we'll get that high). Eh. I'll mention it to him, but I think he really enjoys the MoM thing, and anyway, with 3/4 BAB and a few added skills it should be fine. Not like the party is starving for combat potential anyway, between a fighter, warlock, ranger and shadowcaster. They mostly need a face character, and he's got that well down. Thank you, though.