Master of Shrouds, a broken class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Master of Shrouds, a broken class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SpikeRosered
11-09-07, 03:06 PM I recently made a Master of Shrouds and after only my first encounter with him, I realized the class is ridiculously broken. Incorporeal Undead command many immunities, and have the power to do ability damage, and very few creatures can survive having a shadow (with bonuses to his touch attack) doing 1d6+3 strength damage to them for very long, especially if they are being attacked by multiple assailants. This problem is compounded by the true power of the MoS, his shadows' ability to create spawns.
Now there are two ways to look out how spawns work for this class, since the book says nothing about this critical issue. Either the MoS controls the spawns, or the shadow he commands does and he loses command once it dissapears.
So basically my character is stuck in that campaign with a problem, if he keeps the power of all those spawns he becomes incredibly powerful, with shadows just swarming his enemies, dessimating them in seconds.
(This become apparent when the DM threw an arctic wolf at the party which was supposed to be too strong for us, but forgot that not only does cold damage not affect undead, but it has low strength, and in two attacks was dead :P)
The other problem being if the MoS doesn't control the shadows he creates he's a completely useless class that causes more problems than he fixes. I love the class and the idea of controlling ghosts, but when it comes to how it functions, its just way too devestating to anything the DM can throw at us. The only hope being for the DM to have tons of bad guys who seem to mysteriously have anti-ghost magic for some reason.
(Ie a drow cleric in some dark temple who for some reason has consecrate memorized)
Any tips for balancing issues that may be utilized for the PC or the DM?
serow_#R
11-09-07, 07:48 PM MoS allows ridiculous early entry because of the Will save req. Supposedly, it wasn't balanced around those levels and the reqs are in error.
Necroramo
11-09-07, 10:31 PM Check out the Complete Divine web enhancement update, which nerfs the class with half spellcasting progression and a weaker summons
SpikeRosered
11-10-07, 12:21 AM Check out the Complete Divine web enhancement update, which nerfs the class with half spellcasting progression and a weaker summons
Er where exactly can I find that?
Marcus Majarra
11-10-07, 09:50 AM (This become apparent when the DM threw an arctic wolf at the party which was supposed to be too strong for us, but forgot that not only does cold damage not affect undead, but it has low strength, and in two attacks was dead )
That's incorrect. Undead, in general, have no immunity to cold. The winter wolf's breath weapon, as a supernatural ability, is magical in nature and can thus affect incorporeal creatures 50% of the time.
Necroramo
11-10-07, 07:37 PM Here's the new version of the MoS (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/More_Divinity.zip)
Marcus Majarra
11-10-07, 08:50 PM Necronamo, that web enhancement was published PRIOR to the publication of Libris Mortis. The Libris Mortis Master of Shrouds takes precedence.
Zsasz_Diedne
11-10-07, 11:35 PM Any tips for balancing issues that may be utilized for the PC or the DM?

-Force Spells
-Rebuke Undead
-Constructs
-Undead (ba-zing!)
-Ghost Touch items
-Removal of your summoned creatures ability to create spawn (a la the Shadowdancer)

While definitely tipping the scale to the overpowered side of things and being breakable, I wouldn't call it broken. Your're definitely a mook/melee-slaying god, but at the levels where the class ability gets interesting (Dread Wraith), your BEBG (or BGBG, considering the alignment req ;) ) should be more than capable of neutralizing that aspect of your game. Thankfully you're a full progression caster, which is IMO is way more of a threat than some summoned undead.
Beckettvampire
11-14-07, 11:54 PM I actually played a MoS all the way through, and it really was kind of weak. The only two times I shinned was that I could have them spy and almost never be seen due to the fact that they could hide within objects and pretty much blend into anything, and one fight against another incorporeal creature that no one else could hit.

One the other side of that, I and all my undead died before we took down that monster, but I at least weakened it enough for the other four to kill it in the end. (hey, you can hit me, die die!!!)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpikeRosered 11-09-07, 03:06 PM	I recently made a Master of Shrouds and after only my first encounter with him, I realized the class is ridiculously broken. Incorporeal Undead command many immunities, and have the power to do ability damage, and very few creatures can survive having a shadow (with bonuses to his touch attack) doing 1d6+3 strength damage to them for very long, especially if they are being attacked by multiple assailants. This problem is compounded by the true power of the MoS, his shadows' ability to create spawns. Now there are two ways to look out how spawns work for this class, since the book says nothing about this critical issue. Either the MoS controls the spawns, or the shadow he commands does and he loses command once it dissapears. So basically my character is stuck in that campaign with a problem, if he keeps the power of all those spawns he becomes incredibly powerful, with shadows just swarming his enemies, dessimating them in seconds. (This become apparent when the DM threw an arctic wolf at the party which was supposed to be too strong for us, but forgot that not only does cold damage not affect undead, but it has low strength, and in two attacks was dead :P) The other problem being if the MoS doesn't control the shadows he creates he's a completely useless class that causes more problems than he fixes. I love the class and the idea of controlling ghosts, but when it comes to how it functions, its just way too devestating to anything the DM can throw at us. The only hope being for the DM to have tons of bad guys who seem to mysteriously have anti-ghost magic for some reason. (Ie a drow cleric in some dark temple who for some reason has consecrate memorized) Any tips for balancing issues that may be utilized for the PC or the DM?
serow_#R 11-09-07, 07:48 PM	MoS allows ridiculous early entry because of the Will save req. Supposedly, it wasn't balanced around those levels and the reqs are in error.
Necroramo 11-09-07, 10:31 PM	Check out the Complete Divine web enhancement update, which nerfs the class with half spellcasting progression and a weaker summons
SpikeRosered 11-10-07, 12:21 AM	Check out the Complete Divine web enhancement update, which nerfs the class with half spellcasting progression and a weaker summons Er where exactly can I find that?
Marcus Majarra 11-10-07, 09:50 AM	(This become apparent when the DM threw an arctic wolf at the party which was supposed to be too strong for us, but forgot that not only does cold damage not affect undead, but it has low strength, and in two attacks was dead ) That's incorrect. Undead, in general, have no immunity to cold. The winter wolf's breath weapon, as a supernatural ability, is magical in nature and can thus affect incorporeal creatures 50% of the time.
Necroramo 11-10-07, 07:37 PM	Here's the new version of the MoS (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/More_Divinity.zip)
Marcus Majarra 11-10-07, 08:50 PM	Necronamo, that web enhancement was published PRIOR to the publication of Libris Mortis. The Libris Mortis Master of Shrouds takes precedence.
Zsasz_Diedne 11-10-07, 11:35 PM	Any tips for balancing issues that may be utilized for the PC or the DM? -Force Spells -Rebuke Undead -Constructs -Undead (ba-zing!) -Ghost Touch items -Removal of your summoned creatures ability to create spawn (a la the Shadowdancer) While definitely tipping the scale to the overpowered side of things and being breakable, I wouldn't call it broken. Your're definitely a mook/melee-slaying god, but at the levels where the class ability gets interesting (Dread Wraith), your BEBG (or BGBG, considering the alignment req ;) ) should be more than capable of neutralizing that aspect of your game. Thankfully you're a full progression caster, which is IMO is way more of a threat than some summoned undead.
Beckettvampire 11-14-07, 11:54 PM	I actually played a MoS all the way through, and it really was kind of weak. The only two times I shinned was that I could have them spy and almost never be seen due to the fact that they could hide within objects and pretty much blend into anything, and one fight against another incorporeal creature that no one else could hit. One the other side of that, I and all my undead died before we took down that monster, but I at least weakened it enough for the other four to kill it in the end. (hey, you can hit me, die die!!!)