Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sargsarg 09-11-07, 02:16 AM	Had to try to do a ju jutsu-kinda prc using defensive throw and great just cos it would be cool. i have however not included anything concerning grapple, choking etc - cos that's not what i was interested in. anyway, havent really written a background story yet, only the abilities and so. either way, please share your thoughts on how to make it more balanced and better for play - my experience doing these kind of things isnt really top notch ^^ edit: there's no grapple involved in this prc, the abilities are based around the feats Defensive Throw and Great Throw. Master of the Gentle Way coming. Requirements To qualify to become a master of the gentle way, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Throw, Great Throw Alignment: Any lawful Base Attack Bonus: +4. Skills: Balance 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks. Class Skills The master of the gentle way's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills in the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions. Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Master of the Gentle Way Hit Die: d8 Lvl BaB Fort Refl Will Special 1st +0 +2 +2 +2 Monk abilities 2nd +1 +3 +3 +3 Throw Mastery I, Steady Stance 3rd +2 +3 +3 +3 Guard Drop 4th +3 +4 +4 +4 Throw Mastery II 5th +3 +4 +4 +4 Sacrifice Throw 6th +4 +5 +5 +5 Throw Mastery III, Improved Steady Stance 7th +5 +5 +5 +5 Twist of the Hip 8th +6 +6 +6 +6 Throw Mastery IV 9th +6 +6 +6 +6 Improved Guard Drop 10th +7 +7 +7 +7 Throw Mastery V, Improved Sacrifice Throw Class Features All of the following are class features of the master of the gentle way prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A master of the gentle way gains no additional weapon or armor proficiency. They suffer the same penalties for wearing armor as monks do. Monk Abilities: A master of the gentle way has the unarmed damage, AC bonus, speed and flurry of blows effectiveness of a monk with as many levels as his master of the gentle way levels plus his monk levels (if any). Throw Mastery I (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 2nd level or higher has trained intensively at grabbing hold of and throwing the opponent off balance, gaining a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls when making trip attacks. Steady Stance (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 2nd level or higher are much harder for opponents to trip, because of their knowledge in the art of tripping. The master of the gentle way can't be counter-tripped after a failed trip attempt. Guard Drop (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 3rd level or higher can during his turn choose to drop his guard a little, receiving a -3 penalty to his Armor Class in exchange for one additional attack of opportunity during his round. This ability last from the moment he specify it, and lasts until the start of his next turn. Throw Mastery II (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 4th level or higher has by throwing precision training learnt how to make offensive throws, and when he successfully trip an opponent using the Defensive Throw feat, the master of the gentle way can choose to throw the opponent into another one of his opponents within reach. If the master of the gentle way chooses to do this, then the tripped opponent and the one in the occupied square both take 1d6 damage, and both fall prone. The thrown opponent will roll into an unoccupied adjacent square, and the other opponent will fall prone in it's own square when using this ability. The master of the gentle way can also choose to throw them into a wall if he's standing next to one, dealing them 1d6 damage and leaving them both prone at the wall, each in their separate square. In either case, the thrown opponent takes an additional 1d6 damage, to the normal damage from the Great Throw feat, being thrown into an opponent and the opponent getting hit only takes 1d6 damage. Sacrifice Throw (Su): A master of the gentle way of 5th level or higher can once per day make a special trip attack to an opponent in reach, by in a sacrificial manner throw the opponent with his whole body using the opponent's own momentum and force added to his, causing an additional 1d12 damage, and at the same time the master of the gentle way will land prone having to use a move action to get up again. This ability is a standard action, and a failed attempt wastes that use. Throw Mastery III (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 6th level or higher has by training at how to best utilize the opponent's momentum when throwing learnt how to throw opponents further, gaining a 5 ft reach increase when determining where an opponent will land when using his Great Throw feat. Improved Steady Stance (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 6th level or higher has attained such great knowledge in the art of tripping he can't himself be tripped anymore, by any means - unless he chooses to be. Twist of the Hip (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 7th level or higher may, when using the Defensive Throw feat, choose to make a 5 ft-step to either side of the opponent when throwing. Throw Mastery IV (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 8th level or higher has by further training at making effective leg sweeps and using the opponent's own aggreessiveness against himself, gaining an additional insight bonus of +2 to attack rolls when making trip attacks. Improved Guard Drop (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 9th level or higher can during his turn choose to drop his guard as much as he sees fit, receiving a -3 penalty to his Armor Class per one additional attack of opportunity during his round, to a maximum of 5 extra attacks of opportunity. This ability last from the moment he specify it, and lasts until the start of his next turn. Throw Mastery V (Ex): A master of the gentle way of 10th level or higher has by training for a long time at only making throwing more effective perfected the art of using an opponent's momentum and force against him, gaining a +2 insight bonus on damage rolls when making trip attacks. Improved Sacrifice Throw (Su): At 10th level, the master of the gentle way has perfected his ability to make a Sacrifice Throw, and may choose to do double damage instead of an additional 1d12, and the number times he can use this ability increase to 3/day.
ManTimeForgot 09-11-07, 02:30 AM	Class won't be able to do what you want it to do due to serious BAB/Strength deficiencies. Grapple in D&D is stregth and BAB based, so low strength coupled with low BAB makes a grapple/throw class untenable. My suggestion to you is instead of allowing the ability to throw into other people give the MotGW a competence bonus to grapple/throw checks equal to his class level. This will slightly more than equalize him with a fighter betraying this class' focus on the CQC discipline. Oh and just so you know, the martial art you are looking to duplicate is called Aikido. Jujitsu was the fighting art of samurai and used weapons as well as chokes, locks, holds, and throws. MTF
sargsarg 09-11-07, 09:13 AM	Class won't be able to do what you want it to do due to serious BAB/Strength deficiencies. Grapple in D&D is stregth and BAB based, so low strength coupled with low BAB makes a grapple/throw class untenable. My suggestion to you is instead of allowing the ability to throw into other people give the MotGW a competence bonus to grapple/throw checks equal to his class level. This will slightly more than equalize him with a fighter betraying this class' focus on the CQC discipline. Oh and just so you know, the martial art you are looking to duplicate is called Aikido. Jujitsu was the fighting art of samurai and used weapons as well as chokes, locks, holds, and throws. MTF ah perhaps. but as i wrote, i'm only interested in the throwing aspect of ju jutsu (where judo and all kind of other stuff is a sub of if ive gotten it correctly), ergo it's not a grapple class - which is kinda obvious when looking at the abilities and how they work. so again, there's no grapple involved. but thanks for replying ^^
nonsi 09-11-07, 09:16 AM	See if you find this one suitable for your needs: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-539540 It was made whan I was quite new to the 3.5e gamerules, so you'd probably be able to further improve the "Intercepting" part.
Yosho 09-11-07, 05:23 PM	Im not sure if you have seen Tome of Battle: Book on Nine Swords but you should take a look at it. It has 3 new base classes and 9 martial art diciplines. One of these diciplines is called setting sun and works alot like jujutsu/judo and aikijustu/do. Personaly I would take a look at that book and make this prestige class an extension of that dicipline. Hope that helps.
sargsarg 09-12-07, 12:12 AM	Im not sure if you have seen Tome of Battle: Book on Nine Swords but you should take a look at it. It has 3 new base classes and 9 martial art diciplines. One of these diciplines is called setting sun and works alot like jujutsu/judo and aikijustu/do. Personaly I would take a look at that book and make this prestige class an extension of that dicipline. Hope that helps. we dont use ToB and those classes/things, so im afraid that's not possible.
ManTimeForgot 09-12-07, 03:31 AM	On the topic of RL: Judo is indeed a derivative of Jujitsu, but Judo has two parts: standing and ground. Standing utilizes a lot of throws, but ground utilizes almost exclusively grapples and locks. Aikido is probably a better analogue for the style you wish to "emulate." And as far as the class goes I understand that you want it to be based around defensive throw, but that just isn't really intelligent for the character. Trip attacks run into problems when flying opponents come around, whereas the grappler has no such problems. Another thing to consider is that defensive throw and grapple synergize. A standing grapple can very easily be turned into a trip attempt, then defensive throw. Now if you are really set upon absolutely not having grapple being a part of the class, then you are at the very least going to have to include grapple defenses. This class absolutely requires close quarters to utilize, and making the CQC feat required is kinda jacked. So I would suggest adding in some class bonus to defend against grapples (bonus to touch AC versus grapples, bonus to escape grapples, and perhaps finally give the character a chance to throw somebody when they successfully escape a grapple). Big monsters in late game are very hard to trip and tend to have... well monstrous grapple scores, and so methods of avoiding getting grabbed and pummeled might be good. Likewise due to trips ineffectiveness against fliers you might consider giving him a technique to ground fliers by "throwing them" to the ground (of course this is probably more a grapple technique, but whatever you do you do need to consider flying for later levels). To be perfectly honest though the level of specialization this class has on a single type of combat maneuver leads me to believe that this should be broken down into monk/fighter class abilities and feats, but if you prefer the PrC approach to specialty maneuvers then by all means. On that note the sacrifice throw ability line is pretty tame and doesn't seem to fit the nature of what a sacrifice throw is. I'd suggest making it an anti-charge ability allowing a character to exploit the vulnerabilities of a charging character: something on the order of "provokes an AoO that must be a defensive throw" adding 1/2 of the opponents speed to the throw distance (perhaps with bonus damage based on distance thrown). Also 3/day for a minimum 14th level ability is no where close to what is needed. Unarmed attacks already don't do very much damage, even with this class having the monk damage progression (and fighters not having any such thing); a dedicated throw specialist should be throwing far more than 3 times per single combat. You can't power attack with a throw (ok maybe you can, but it just doesn't work very wel together even if you can), and opponents will usually try to avoid being close to such a character once they figure out what his game is. Grapples solve that problem, but since you stated you don't wish this to become a part of the class, I'd say you are left with stuns, which neatly leaves the fighter out and making IST a minimum what 16th level ability? By 16th level 3 times per day abilities need to be doing more than 2d20 + 10 damage. When your fighter type ability doesn't outpace the bard's damage ability (which is also like 3/day) by a lot, then something needs a little change. As a high level ability maybe allow a stunning throw (stunning fist attempt and defensive throw to be used together). I'd certainly consider that, and stunning fist for a monk already gets plenty of uses. This would also somewhat neatly solve the problem of foes moving away too easily after getting thrown. MTF