Mindbender: Eternal Charm ability on unconscious opponents? Will saves when helpless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mindbender: Eternal Charm ability on unconscious opponents? Will saves when helpless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tema69
07-12-07, 06:42 PM Hey. How does being unconscious affect your Will saves? can you hedge out mind control while helpless (by subdual damage for example)? Please help. :)
Captain_Kobold
07-12-07, 08:40 PM Why would you not get your normal will save whilst unconscious?

If (for example) you have been mind controlled into attacking a companion, I can see them rendering you unconscious through subdual damage. This won't prevent you from being charmed/mind controlled though. It simply means that you won't be able to act on any instructions/inclinations.
SilentOne
07-12-07, 08:46 PM You're automatically considered willing while unconscious, thus forgo any and all saving throws (meaning you fail them all). Your SR, if any, remains up and running though, since you need to consciously pull that down (yes, not part of the question, it's bonus).

As for the ability to hedge out control, I'd say if an unconscious person were given immunity somehow, either through protection from evil or mindblank, then it prevent control while the effect is active, so someone dominated couldn't be commanded t wake up, for instance, and would remain sleeping.
Captain_Kobold
07-12-07, 10:31 PM You're automatically considered willing while unconscious, thus forgo any and all saving throws (meaning you fail them all).

Really? Where did you get that from?
Kevin Andrew Murphy
07-13-07, 12:27 AM You're automatically considered willing while unconscious, thus forgo any and all saving throws (meaning you fail them all). Your SR, if any, remains up and running though, since you need to consciously pull that down (yes, not part of the question, it's bonus).

As for the ability to hedge out control, I'd say if an unconscious person were given immunity somehow, either through protection from evil or mindblank, then it prevent control while the effect is active, so someone dominated couldn't be commanded t wake up, for instance, and would remain sleeping.

The easiest way around this is to rule that the unconscious, like the dead, temporarily acquire the "mindless" template and are thereby immune to all mental compulsions because they have no mind to control and moreover, can't understand what you're telling them in any case.

Of course this probably isn't done because with a common sense interpretation, the subconscious is still possibly there and it might get a saving throw.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tema69 07-12-07, 06:42 PM	Hey. How does being unconscious affect your Will saves? can you hedge out mind control while helpless (by subdual damage for example)? Please help. :)
Captain_Kobold 07-12-07, 08:40 PM	Why would you not get your normal will save whilst unconscious? If (for example) you have been mind controlled into attacking a companion, I can see them rendering you unconscious through subdual damage. This won't prevent you from being charmed/mind controlled though. It simply means that you won't be able to act on any instructions/inclinations.
SilentOne 07-12-07, 08:46 PM	You're automatically considered willing while unconscious, thus forgo any and all saving throws (meaning you fail them all). Your SR, if any, remains up and running though, since you need to consciously pull that down (yes, not part of the question, it's bonus). As for the ability to hedge out control, I'd say if an unconscious person were given immunity somehow, either through protection from evil or mindblank, then it prevent control while the effect is active, so someone dominated couldn't be commanded t wake up, for instance, and would remain sleeping.
Captain_Kobold 07-12-07, 10:31 PM	You're automatically considered willing while unconscious, thus forgo any and all saving throws (meaning you fail them all). Really? Where did you get that from?
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-13-07, 12:27 AM	You're automatically considered willing while unconscious, thus forgo any and all saving throws (meaning you fail them all). Your SR, if any, remains up and running though, since you need to consciously pull that down (yes, not part of the question, it's bonus). As for the ability to hedge out control, I'd say if an unconscious person were given immunity somehow, either through protection from evil or mindblank, then it prevent control while the effect is active, so someone dominated couldn't be commanded t wake up, for instance, and would remain sleeping. The easiest way around this is to rule that the unconscious, like the dead, temporarily acquire the "mindless" template and are thereby immune to all mental compulsions because they have no mind to control and moreover, can't understand what you're telling them in any case. Of course this probably isn't done because with a common sense interpretation, the subconscious is still possibly there and it might get a saving throw.