Monk and Prestige Questions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monk and Prestige Questions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WolBarret
04-21-08, 06:22 AM 1. Prestige Classes: I've heard from a guy that once you start a Prestige class, you can't stop. Is that true?

2. Quintessential Monk II: In the QM II, there's the Legendary Monk Prestige Classes. It says "Every prestige class in this chapter allows the monk to take levels while still advancing as monk." I'm assuming it means that if I'm a level 5 monk and decide to prestige as a Witchkiller(QMII), whenever I level the Witchkiller class that I level the Monk as well.

Example: Monk lv 5----> Monk lv 6, Witchkiller 1

3. Let's say I max out the prestige class and want to continue on as a Monk. Can I still gain the regular Monk super abilities that I gave up for Prestige?

Thank you.
runestar
04-21-08, 06:30 AM 1. Prestige Classes: I've heard from a guy that once you start a Prestige class, you can't stop. Is that true?

Rubbish. You have full freedom as to how many lvs of each prc you wish to take.

2. Quintessential Monk II: In the QM II, there's the Legendary Monk Prestige Classes. It says "Every prestige class in this chapter allows the monk to take levels while still advancing as monk." I'm assuming it means that if I'm a level 5 monk and decide to prestige as a Witchkiller(QMII), whenever I level the Witchkiller class that I level the Monk as well.

Monks have a rather inane multiclassing restriction which prevents them from further advancing as a monk after taking lvs in another class. What that line probably means is that after multiclassing into those prcs, you can still go back to taking lvs of monk if you ever see a need to.:)

3. Let's say I max out the prestige class and want to continue on as a Monk. Can I still gain the regular Monk super abilities that I gave up for Prestige?

You don't really give up anything, you just did not get them as you did not take the requisite lvs in monk.

When you take extra lvs of monk, you get the abilities as stated in the PHB, nothing more (which will have been delayed, so their usefulness is suspect).
WolBarret
04-21-08, 06:58 AM It also says I can stack levels and certain abilities like unarmored bonus, speed bonus, unarmed damage, etc.
Example: Level 10 monk, Level 3 WKiller----> level 11 monk, level 3 WKiller.

How would I determine the increase in unarmed damage and speed. I wish I could show you the book because its confusing me.
runestar
04-21-08, 07:10 AM You add them together and refer to the appropriate monk lv to determine bonuses.

For example, in your case, Level 10 monk, Level 3 WKiller would be treated as the equivalent of a lv13 monk with regards to unarmored bonus, speed bonus, unarmed damage, etc.

Thus, he would have +40 base speed, deal 2d6 with his unarmed strikes etc, just as though he were actually a lv13 monk.
WolBarret
04-21-08, 07:30 AM Good. So that means if I max out WKiller to Lv 10 and go back to the Monk levels. I can still gain special abilities like Perfect Self and such. Level 20 monk and level 10 WKiller. Right?

Thanks for the help.
runestar
04-21-08, 07:54 AM Good. So that means if I max out WKiller to Lv 10 and go back to the Monk levels. I can still gain special abilities like Perfect Self and such. Level 20 monk and level 10 WKiller. Right?

Thanks for the help.

Only if you do get to monk20 and wkiller10 (which is 30 lvs in itself)

Those lvs stack only for the abilities listed (typically just unarmed strike, unarmoured bonus, possibly speed). The rest do not stack.

For example, at lv20, a monk10/wkiller10 gets only the class features of a 10th lv monk (which is up to ki-strike: lawful and slowfall 50ft). You do not get any other monk features of 11th lv and above (so no diamond body etc).

Hope this clarifies things as I am not exactly sure what scenario you have in mind.:P
WolBarret
04-21-08, 08:17 AM Damn. So let's say I hit 10/10. Should I keep going with the Monk or just mult-class into something else.
dman11235
04-21-08, 09:57 AM What you should do is continue with any other PrCs you can find. The easiest part of optimizing a monk is knowing that you need to minimize actual monk levels, preferably 2, up to (but no more than) 6.
The_Shaman
04-21-08, 10:41 AM The easiest part of optimizing a monk is knowing that you need to minimize actual monk levels, preferably 2, up to (but no more than) 6.

Sad, but true.
WolBarret
04-21-08, 10:52 PM Damn. I want to keep my focus on the Monk related Prc Classes. I had two plans:

Level 4 Monk, prestige into Shadow Sun Ninja, reach level 5, prestige into Witch Killer (Q.Monk II), and max that out.

Second option: Level 10 Monk, prestige into Witch Killer, and then max out.

But if I multi-classed, what would be good second class. I'm thinking Ranger or Druid.(I'm an Earth Genasi). Thanks for the help.
runestar
04-21-08, 10:58 PM Shadow sun ninja needs you to be at least a 6th lv monk, because you must be at least 6th lv to take a 2nd lv maneuver via martial study.

A better way to enter might be as a crusader1/warblade3/swordsage1/shadow sun ninja1+. Take the necropolitan template and you have a ready source of infinite healing, and you should still have enough maneuvers to simulate a monk.:)
WolBarret
04-21-08, 11:03 PM I don't mind waiting that long, I like the monk class. I'll probably stick with Monk until 6th level, hit a few levels of Shadow Sun, and then finish Witch Killer.

Another Question: Do any of you guys use the Quintessential Monk books for Prestige classes? If so, which class? And if you don't use the classes, do you even think the books are useful for Monk players?
dman11235
04-21-08, 11:18 PM Never heard of them.

Anyways, Tomb-Tainted Soul will also get you the infinite healing, but iirc requires evil alignment (or at least non-good)

And if you are going to use ToB classes to emulate a monk, might want to just use unarmed swordsage, with maybe a couple Warblade levels. Don't see Crusader in there.

Now, what kind of character is this going to be? Assuming from the name you are going to be anti-arcane casters, but what else?
WolBarret
04-21-08, 11:28 PM Yep, anti-caster as well as anti-undead. All I'm wanting is two Prc classes for my Monk. One being Witch Killer and the other being Shadow Sun Ninja or the classes you suggested. And hopefully reach epic level. I'm open to any Prc that stacks with Monk abilities.

Actually, a Prestige class that increases my melee abilities would be perfect. I want to get into a Mage's face and hit him so damn hard that he crumbles. And if I face a fighter, be able to hurt him.
dman11235
04-21-08, 11:43 PM Fist of the Forest is an all-time favorite for monks. Too bad it doesn't fit the concept. Well, I have heard good things about the Shou Disciple (though I am personally against them for allowing you to were armor) as they are a full BAB PrC with some more fighting oriented abilities. Shadow Sun Ninja is a really nice PrC especially if you have one of the infinite healing tricks. Occult Slayer is an arcane hunting PrC, but not a particularly good use for monks. Really what you need is Mage Slayer (feat, CWar I believe). I a bit tired right now, so sorry if this seemed a bit haphazard. I'll give you a little more help in the morning.
WolBarret
04-21-08, 11:45 PM Also, could you guys spell out the book for me word for word. I don't have all of them and I need to buy them soon. I have Tome of Battle:Book of nine swords.

So if you don't mind, spell out the book titles. I'll get them soon.

To Dman: Don't sweat it, you've been alot of help over the weeks.
dman11235
04-22-08, 09:20 AM Check out my Handy Haversack. It has all the Dictionary of Terms, so if you don't know what a shorthand is, check there, it'll help you out.

Also, what I would suggest on the mage hunting build is (I haven't seen Witchslayer, so I can't really say) just play it with normal PrCs, maybe with Pious Templar or Witchslayer (CD and ToM respectively) for Mettle, and be sure to take Mage Slayer. Just use flavor to dictate play instead of classes. Though Ranger might be a good use so you can pick up Favored Enemy (Arcanists) (CM alternate class feature). And then you can go into Stalker of Karash (BoED) and pick up FE (Evil).

And did you really just admit to pirating books on their website?
WolBarret
04-22-08, 08:08 PM I'll make sure to check out your Haversack. Pirating? Only thing I pirate is music, movies, and porn.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WolBarret 04-21-08, 06:22 AM	1. Prestige Classes: I've heard from a guy that once you start a Prestige class, you can't stop. Is that true? 2. Quintessential Monk II: In the QM II, there's the Legendary Monk Prestige Classes. It says "Every prestige class in this chapter allows the monk to take levels while still advancing as monk." I'm assuming it means that if I'm a level 5 monk and decide to prestige as a Witchkiller(QMII), whenever I level the Witchkiller class that I level the Monk as well. Example: Monk lv 5----> Monk lv 6, Witchkiller 1 3. Let's say I max out the prestige class and want to continue on as a Monk. Can I still gain the regular Monk super abilities that I gave up for Prestige? Thank you.
runestar 04-21-08, 06:30 AM	1. Prestige Classes: I've heard from a guy that once you start a Prestige class, you can't stop. Is that true? Rubbish. You have full freedom as to how many lvs of each prc you wish to take. 2. Quintessential Monk II: In the QM II, there's the Legendary Monk Prestige Classes. It says "Every prestige class in this chapter allows the monk to take levels while still advancing as monk." I'm assuming it means that if I'm a level 5 monk and decide to prestige as a Witchkiller(QMII), whenever I level the Witchkiller class that I level the Monk as well. Monks have a rather inane multiclassing restriction which prevents them from further advancing as a monk after taking lvs in another class. What that line probably means is that after multiclassing into those prcs, you can still go back to taking lvs of monk if you ever see a need to.:) 3. Let's say I max out the prestige class and want to continue on as a Monk. Can I still gain the regular Monk super abilities that I gave up for Prestige? You don't really give up anything, you just did not get them as you did not take the requisite lvs in monk. When you take extra lvs of monk, you get the abilities as stated in the PHB, nothing more (which will have been delayed, so their usefulness is suspect).
WolBarret 04-21-08, 06:58 AM	It also says I can stack levels and certain abilities like unarmored bonus, speed bonus, unarmed damage, etc. Example: Level 10 monk, Level 3 WKiller----> level 11 monk, level 3 WKiller. How would I determine the increase in unarmed damage and speed. I wish I could show you the book because its confusing me.
runestar 04-21-08, 07:10 AM	You add them together and refer to the appropriate monk lv to determine bonuses. For example, in your case, Level 10 monk, Level 3 WKiller would be treated as the equivalent of a lv13 monk with regards to unarmored bonus, speed bonus, unarmed damage, etc. Thus, he would have +40 base speed, deal 2d6 with his unarmed strikes etc, just as though he were actually a lv13 monk.
WolBarret 04-21-08, 07:30 AM	Good. So that means if I max out WKiller to Lv 10 and go back to the Monk levels. I can still gain special abilities like Perfect Self and such. Level 20 monk and level 10 WKiller. Right? Thanks for the help.
runestar 04-21-08, 07:54 AM	Good. So that means if I max out WKiller to Lv 10 and go back to the Monk levels. I can still gain special abilities like Perfect Self and such. Level 20 monk and level 10 WKiller. Right? Thanks for the help. Only if you do get to monk20 and wkiller10 (which is 30 lvs in itself) Those lvs stack only for the abilities listed (typically just unarmed strike, unarmoured bonus, possibly speed). The rest do not stack. For example, at lv20, a monk10/wkiller10 gets only the class features of a 10th lv monk (which is up to ki-strike: lawful and slowfall 50ft). You do not get any other monk features of 11th lv and above (so no diamond body etc). Hope this clarifies things as I am not exactly sure what scenario you have in mind.:P
WolBarret 04-21-08, 08:17 AM	Damn. So let's say I hit 10/10. Should I keep going with the Monk or just mult-class into something else.
dman11235 04-21-08, 09:57 AM	What you should do is continue with any other PrCs you can find. The easiest part of optimizing a monk is knowing that you need to minimize actual monk levels, preferably 2, up to (but no more than) 6.
The_Shaman 04-21-08, 10:41 AM	The easiest part of optimizing a monk is knowing that you need to minimize actual monk levels, preferably 2, up to (but no more than) 6. Sad, but true.
WolBarret 04-21-08, 10:52 PM	Damn. I want to keep my focus on the Monk related Prc Classes. I had two plans: Level 4 Monk, prestige into Shadow Sun Ninja, reach level 5, prestige into Witch Killer (Q.Monk II), and max that out. Second option: Level 10 Monk, prestige into Witch Killer, and then max out. But if I multi-classed, what would be good second class. I'm thinking Ranger or Druid.(I'm an Earth Genasi). Thanks for the help.
runestar 04-21-08, 10:58 PM	Shadow sun ninja needs you to be at least a 6th lv monk, because you must be at least 6th lv to take a 2nd lv maneuver via martial study. A better way to enter might be as a crusader1/warblade3/swordsage1/shadow sun ninja1+. Take the necropolitan template and you have a ready source of infinite healing, and you should still have enough maneuvers to simulate a monk.:)
WolBarret 04-21-08, 11:03 PM	I don't mind waiting that long, I like the monk class. I'll probably stick with Monk until 6th level, hit a few levels of Shadow Sun, and then finish Witch Killer. Another Question: Do any of you guys use the Quintessential Monk books for Prestige classes? If so, which class? And if you don't use the classes, do you even think the books are useful for Monk players?
dman11235 04-21-08, 11:18 PM	Never heard of them. Anyways, Tomb-Tainted Soul will also get you the infinite healing, but iirc requires evil alignment (or at least non-good) And if you are going to use ToB classes to emulate a monk, might want to just use unarmed swordsage, with maybe a couple Warblade levels. Don't see Crusader in there. Now, what kind of character is this going to be? Assuming from the name you are going to be anti-arcane casters, but what else?
WolBarret 04-21-08, 11:28 PM	Yep, anti-caster as well as anti-undead. All I'm wanting is two Prc classes for my Monk. One being Witch Killer and the other being Shadow Sun Ninja or the classes you suggested. And hopefully reach epic level. I'm open to any Prc that stacks with Monk abilities. Actually, a Prestige class that increases my melee abilities would be perfect. I want to get into a Mage's face and hit him so damn hard that he crumbles. And if I face a fighter, be able to hurt him.
dman11235 04-21-08, 11:43 PM	Fist of the Forest is an all-time favorite for monks. Too bad it doesn't fit the concept. Well, I have heard good things about the Shou Disciple (though I am personally against them for allowing you to were armor) as they are a full BAB PrC with some more fighting oriented abilities. Shadow Sun Ninja is a really nice PrC especially if you have one of the infinite healing tricks. Occult Slayer is an arcane hunting PrC, but not a particularly good use for monks. Really what you need is Mage Slayer (feat, CWar I believe). I a bit tired right now, so sorry if this seemed a bit haphazard. I'll give you a little more help in the morning.
WolBarret 04-21-08, 11:45 PM	Also, could you guys spell out the book for me word for word. I don't have all of them and I need to buy them soon. I have Tome of Battle:Book of nine swords. So if you don't mind, spell out the book titles. I'll get them soon. To Dman: Don't sweat it, you've been alot of help over the weeks.
dman11235 04-22-08, 09:20 AM	Check out my Handy Haversack. It has all the Dictionary of Terms, so if you don't know what a shorthand is, check there, it'll help you out. Also, what I would suggest on the mage hunting build is (I haven't seen Witchslayer, so I can't really say) just play it with normal PrCs, maybe with Pious Templar or Witchslayer (CD and ToM respectively) for Mettle, and be sure to take Mage Slayer. Just use flavor to dictate play instead of classes. Though Ranger might be a good use so you can pick up Favored Enemy (Arcanists) (CM alternate class feature). And then you can go into Stalker of Karash (BoED) and pick up FE (Evil). And did you really just admit to pirating books on their website?
WolBarret 04-22-08, 08:08 PM	I'll make sure to check out your Haversack. Pirating? Only thing I pirate is music, movies, and porn.