Monk Options [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monk Options [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WinterPsionic
04-03-07, 02:17 AM Ok so I'm considering rolling up a Monk and I'm almost positive I'm gonna take Tattooed asap, are there any other classes that'd be good? For the Tattooed I'll be taking the 2 healing Tats and I'm not sure what others, I've flipped through a few books but because of my limited experience with Monks I'm having trouble gaging worthwhile options. I do know I'd like to maintain my Monk abilities and I have no problem doing Monk 10/Tattooed 10. Just open to suggestions.
Barloch
04-03-07, 03:02 AM Hell I'd go so far as to say go monk 15/tatooed 5 (or whatever option gets you tatoo without a dead level). Honestly monks are good all 19 levels, perfect self though I think is honestly garbage, dr 10/magic at level 20 isn't worth very much. And I've only found a couple of tatoos I think are really worth taking, most of them are useable 1/day and as a rule I don't play any class that has most of its features limited to 1/day.

On a note though about good monk prcs: the drunken master is fun if you're willing to give up some monk abilities to gain a new fighting style. The kensai also makes for a good monk prestige, as does the initiate of draconic mysteries for pure damage output (draconomicon). I'd like to see some monk prestige that focuses on stunning fist and its branch feats sometime in the future, as well as a staff fighter but I'm not holding my breath. Reaping mauler is a good prestige if you like to grapple, and if your dm uses a lot of mages you'll grow quite fond of grappling.
crimsonwolf
04-03-07, 04:06 AM i dont know what magzine it was but there was alot of "shen" prcsfor monks
Iarmeister
04-03-07, 04:12 AM i dont know what magzine it was but there was alot of "shen" prcsfor monks

That would be Dragon Mag#319: "Warriors of the Animal Fist".
Fun stuff indeed!

If you get a sec, please check out my Budoken PrC, as it might be what you are looking for:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=751039

In fact, please check out the Kung Fu Compendium for even more options:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=758520

Monks are :cool: !
Guy42
04-03-07, 04:27 AM Shou Disciple from Unapproachable East can be nice, gain proficiency with martial weapons, bonus dodge feat AC, full BAB progression, further flurry/unarmed bonuses, bonus feats, flurry with any weapons, all in 5 nice little levels.

If you can use 3.0 stuff, Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures is nice. Only way a monk can rage, and you also get full attacking during a charge, a Boots of Speed(10 rounds of haste/day) ability, and multiple Ki Shouts a day, sadly it makes a monk need 13+ CHA to qualify, and that's usually a dump slot. Even worth it if you just want to stay in for a limited number of levels, 1 level will get you a few rages and multiple ki shouts a day with +4 to the DC, up to level 4 will get you the full attacking on a charge, 7 levels will get you the haste ability, and 8 will give you greater rage, those are the ones I consider the most significant abilities, 10th level is just 5th rage for the day and no fatigue after raging. It's not really a monk PrC, but I like it for them anyway, flavor-wise and some nice abilities.

Drunken Master is always a fun one to go with too, definitely fun to play, just pick up something and hit people with it, and drink for STR/CON boosts. Gives you an excuse for constant drunkenness.
teshen
04-03-07, 02:27 PM If you can use 3.0 stuff, Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures. . .
Dragon had a 3.5 Oriental Adventures update in issue 318. It's now 3.5 worthy with little change...

If your DM allows, angle toward some of the Oriental Adventures martial art styles... It's more or less a series of feats that grant an ability once you have the prerequisites... Like Foot and Fist style (Tae Kwan Do) which grants a decent bonus to jump, balance, and tumble. Or Empty Hand (Karate) which improves unarmed strike damage. Those are fun. :dancin:
The_Shaman
04-03-07, 06:07 PM If you don't mind losing on some of the monk mojo, Monk6/SD5/Singh Rager 9 is quite solid in combat. Technically, 11 levels of monk abilities are a great break-off point as a) unarmed damage can be maxed with monk's robe and Superior US, and b) flurry is at its best. Even a relatively strange choice like a sacred templar could turn out to be more than worth it (weapon specialization - mastery, casting, DR, smite). The other OA monk classes (updated in Dragon 318) are also good though. BTW, that's where the Tattooed monk is originally from - only the version in Dragon has flurry progression, too. Try to get that if you can, WotC is really stingy with flurry in their core PrCs and it's probably the monk's greatest offensive ability. If you're LG, the Shintao Monk (aka OA palamonk) is imo a great choice.

Aside from that, I think the Sun Sould Monk (Waterdeep) is also quite nice. I wonder if the abilities would stack with a necklace of natural attacks :P . Of course, it might be worth your time checking the psionic fist / Fist of Zuoken, it's in the SRD and requires a PP reserve (CustServ ruling, officially it requires wild talent but a PP reserve suffices) and can be taken around lvl 6.
batmanjr
04-03-07, 06:40 PM Me personally, I like the Sacred Fist from Complete Divine. I think it adds cool flavor and really if you take the Sacred Healing feat(the one that does the fast healing burst in 60' radius in place of turning attempts) you will be a great asset to the party when healing up at the end of the day. If you really want to min/max it, you take Monk up to 3rd then at 4th level(since it's a dead BAB level anyway) you take your cleric level until you get high enough to take your first level in Sacred Fist(1-1 BAB for SF) and all but 2 levels of SF increase your previous spell casting level. Not too shabby.
The_Shaman
04-03-07, 07:02 PM Yeah, all the monk/casters are interesting. I consider it best with monk 2/ shaman (OA) 8. Practiced spellcaster lifts your level back to 20, and you can pull off some quite serious stuff. Giant size, anyone :D ?
Barloch
04-03-07, 10:02 PM Me personally, I like the Sacred Fist from Complete Divine. I think it adds cool flavor and really if you take the Sacred Healing feat(the one that does the fast healing burst in 60' radius in place of turning attempts) you will be a great asset to the party when healing up at the end of the day. If you really want to min/max it, you take Monk up to 3rd then at 4th level(since it's a dead BAB level anyway) you take your cleric level until you get high enough to take your first level in Sacred Fist(1-1 BAB for SF) and all but 2 levels of SF increase your previous spell casting level. Not too shabby.

First off, monks second dead BAB level is 5, not 4, I'd suggest going monk 4 for ki strike magic and 2 levels in cleric. Second off sacred fist gain spellcasting at every single level, the text says "whenever a sacred fist gains a level...." blah blah blah, not every level exept 4th and 8th, and text trumps charts. Unless there some errata I don't know about, I'm not up to date on that.

But yes, great prestige class for monks, though I'm not fond of their abilities as most are 1/day but they get spellcasting and full BAB to make up for that.
The_Shaman
04-04-07, 01:34 PM Er, it does have a 8/10 progression. Maybe there was a reprint of CDivine or something?
StalkerEntreri
04-04-07, 01:49 PM "When a new sacred fist level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast divine spells before added the prestige class. He does no however, gain any of the other benefits a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling/rebuking undead, wild shape ability, and so on) this essentially means he adds the level of fist to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day accordingly."

Copied straight from the book
The_Shaman
04-04-07, 04:45 PM Man, I don't know what I have, and what you have, but my table shows no spellcasting progression at lvls 4 and 8. Not that I mind, of course - it's having several lvl 9 spells more, and we all love those :D .
teshen
04-04-07, 07:15 PM Man, I don't know what I have, and what you have, but my table shows no spellcasting progression at lvls 4 and 8. Not that I mind, of course - it's having several lvl 9 spells more, and we all love those :D .
I don't know where to find the appropriate passages, but the argument is solid... as I've seen many long time, reputable members of these boards cite the appropriate sources that boil it down to... 'text trumps tables.'

So yes, shaman, the table for the sacred fist is inacurate as far as it goes...

Strange huh? :shifty:
Jaxgaret
04-04-07, 07:22 PM I don't know where to find the appropriate passages, but the argument is solid... as I've seen many long time, reputable members of these boards cite the appropriate sources that boil it down to... 'text trumps tables.'

So yes, shaman, the table for the sacred fist is inacurate as far as it goes...

Strange huh? :shifty:

Yes, very strange.

I've seen this argument for classes that have as poor as 6/10 progression on the table, but magically they get full spellcasting because of the text.

But hey, I'm not going to argue with the wizened board members who know better than me.
teshen
04-04-07, 08:11 PM Yes, very strange. . . But hey, I'm not going to argue with the wizened board members who know better than me.
I do sometimes. :D

But it usually hurts. :doh:
Guy42
04-04-07, 09:07 PM I'm suprised there is no errata or anything concerning that. Giving a full BAB class full spell progression seems weird, and I doubt many DMs would be too happy about you not going off the table, despite what the text may say.
Barloch
04-04-07, 10:20 PM WotC is fully aware that text > tables and I'd imagine they're fully aware of many of these classes texts. If the table was what they had really wanted they're errata the text.
geekmasterflash
04-05-07, 01:13 AM Ninja Spy, for the win.

In the 3.5 Update to OA published in Dragon 318, it was left as is. So, have fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WinterPsionic 04-03-07, 02:17 AM	Ok so I'm considering rolling up a Monk and I'm almost positive I'm gonna take Tattooed asap, are there any other classes that'd be good? For the Tattooed I'll be taking the 2 healing Tats and I'm not sure what others, I've flipped through a few books but because of my limited experience with Monks I'm having trouble gaging worthwhile options. I do know I'd like to maintain my Monk abilities and I have no problem doing Monk 10/Tattooed 10. Just open to suggestions.
Barloch 04-03-07, 03:02 AM	Hell I'd go so far as to say go monk 15/tatooed 5 (or whatever option gets you tatoo without a dead level). Honestly monks are good all 19 levels, perfect self though I think is honestly garbage, dr 10/magic at level 20 isn't worth very much. And I've only found a couple of tatoos I think are really worth taking, most of them are useable 1/day and as a rule I don't play any class that has most of its features limited to 1/day. On a note though about good monk prcs: the drunken master is fun if you're willing to give up some monk abilities to gain a new fighting style. The kensai also makes for a good monk prestige, as does the initiate of draconic mysteries for pure damage output (draconomicon). I'd like to see some monk prestige that focuses on stunning fist and its branch feats sometime in the future, as well as a staff fighter but I'm not holding my breath. Reaping mauler is a good prestige if you like to grapple, and if your dm uses a lot of mages you'll grow quite fond of grappling.
crimsonwolf 04-03-07, 04:06 AM	i dont know what magzine it was but there was alot of "shen" prcsfor monks
Iarmeister 04-03-07, 04:12 AM	i dont know what magzine it was but there was alot of "shen" prcsfor monks That would be Dragon Mag#319: "Warriors of the Animal Fist". Fun stuff indeed! If you get a sec, please check out my Budoken PrC, as it might be what you are looking for: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=751039 In fact, please check out the Kung Fu Compendium for even more options: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=758520 Monks are :cool: !
Guy42 04-03-07, 04:27 AM	Shou Disciple from Unapproachable East can be nice, gain proficiency with martial weapons, bonus dodge feat AC, full BAB progression, further flurry/unarmed bonuses, bonus feats, flurry with any weapons, all in 5 nice little levels. If you can use 3.0 stuff, Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures is nice. Only way a monk can rage, and you also get full attacking during a charge, a Boots of Speed(10 rounds of haste/day) ability, and multiple Ki Shouts a day, sadly it makes a monk need 13+ CHA to qualify, and that's usually a dump slot. Even worth it if you just want to stay in for a limited number of levels, 1 level will get you a few rages and multiple ki shouts a day with +4 to the DC, up to level 4 will get you the full attacking on a charge, 7 levels will get you the haste ability, and 8 will give you greater rage, those are the ones I consider the most significant abilities, 10th level is just 5th rage for the day and no fatigue after raging. It's not really a monk PrC, but I like it for them anyway, flavor-wise and some nice abilities. Drunken Master is always a fun one to go with too, definitely fun to play, just pick up something and hit people with it, and drink for STR/CON boosts. Gives you an excuse for constant drunkenness.
teshen 04-03-07, 02:27 PM	If you can use 3.0 stuff, Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures. . . Dragon had a 3.5 Oriental Adventures update in issue 318. It's now 3.5 worthy with little change... If your DM allows, angle toward some of the Oriental Adventures martial art styles... It's more or less a series of feats that grant an ability once you have the prerequisites... Like Foot and Fist style (Tae Kwan Do) which grants a decent bonus to jump, balance, and tumble. Or Empty Hand (Karate) which improves unarmed strike damage. Those are fun. :dancin:
The_Shaman 04-03-07, 06:07 PM	If you don't mind losing on some of the monk mojo, Monk6/SD5/Singh Rager 9 is quite solid in combat. Technically, 11 levels of monk abilities are a great break-off point as a) unarmed damage can be maxed with monk's robe and Superior US, and b) flurry is at its best. Even a relatively strange choice like a sacred templar could turn out to be more than worth it (weapon specialization - mastery, casting, DR, smite). The other OA monk classes (updated in Dragon 318) are also good though. BTW, that's where the Tattooed monk is originally from - only the version in Dragon has flurry progression, too. Try to get that if you can, WotC is really stingy with flurry in their core PrCs and it's probably the monk's greatest offensive ability. If you're LG, the Shintao Monk (aka OA palamonk) is imo a great choice. Aside from that, I think the Sun Sould Monk (Waterdeep) is also quite nice. I wonder if the abilities would stack with a necklace of natural attacks :P . Of course, it might be worth your time checking the psionic fist / Fist of Zuoken, it's in the SRD and requires a PP reserve (CustServ ruling, officially it requires wild talent but a PP reserve suffices) and can be taken around lvl 6.
batmanjr 04-03-07, 06:40 PM	Me personally, I like the Sacred Fist from Complete Divine. I think it adds cool flavor and really if you take the Sacred Healing feat(the one that does the fast healing burst in 60' radius in place of turning attempts) you will be a great asset to the party when healing up at the end of the day. If you really want to min/max it, you take Monk up to 3rd then at 4th level(since it's a dead BAB level anyway) you take your cleric level until you get high enough to take your first level in Sacred Fist(1-1 BAB for SF) and all but 2 levels of SF increase your previous spell casting level. Not too shabby.
The_Shaman 04-03-07, 07:02 PM	Yeah, all the monk/casters are interesting. I consider it best with monk 2/ shaman (OA) 8. Practiced spellcaster lifts your level back to 20, and you can pull off some quite serious stuff. Giant size, anyone :D ?
Barloch 04-03-07, 10:02 PM	Me personally, I like the Sacred Fist from Complete Divine. I think it adds cool flavor and really if you take the Sacred Healing feat(the one that does the fast healing burst in 60' radius in place of turning attempts) you will be a great asset to the party when healing up at the end of the day. If you really want to min/max it, you take Monk up to 3rd then at 4th level(since it's a dead BAB level anyway) you take your cleric level until you get high enough to take your first level in Sacred Fist(1-1 BAB for SF) and all but 2 levels of SF increase your previous spell casting level. Not too shabby. First off, monks second dead BAB level is 5, not 4, I'd suggest going monk 4 for ki strike magic and 2 levels in cleric. Second off sacred fist gain spellcasting at every single level, the text says "whenever a sacred fist gains a level...." blah blah blah, not every level exept 4th and 8th, and text trumps charts. Unless there some errata I don't know about, I'm not up to date on that. But yes, great prestige class for monks, though I'm not fond of their abilities as most are 1/day but they get spellcasting and full BAB to make up for that.
The_Shaman 04-04-07, 01:34 PM	Er, it does have a 8/10 progression. Maybe there was a reprint of CDivine or something?
StalkerEntreri 04-04-07, 01:49 PM	"When a new sacred fist level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast divine spells before added the prestige class. He does no however, gain any of the other benefits a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling/rebuking undead, wild shape ability, and so on) this essentially means he adds the level of fist to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day accordingly." Copied straight from the book
The_Shaman 04-04-07, 04:45 PM	Man, I don't know what I have, and what you have, but my table shows no spellcasting progression at lvls 4 and 8. Not that I mind, of course - it's having several lvl 9 spells more, and we all love those :D .
teshen 04-04-07, 07:15 PM	Man, I don't know what I have, and what you have, but my table shows no spellcasting progression at lvls 4 and 8. Not that I mind, of course - it's having several lvl 9 spells more, and we all love those :D . I don't know where to find the appropriate passages, but the argument is solid... as I've seen many long time, reputable members of these boards cite the appropriate sources that boil it down to... 'text trumps tables.' So yes, shaman, the table for the sacred fist is inacurate as far as it goes... Strange huh? :shifty:
Jaxgaret 04-04-07, 07:22 PM	I don't know where to find the appropriate passages, but the argument is solid... as I've seen many long time, reputable members of these boards cite the appropriate sources that boil it down to... 'text trumps tables.' So yes, shaman, the table for the sacred fist is inacurate as far as it goes... Strange huh? :shifty: Yes, very strange. I've seen this argument for classes that have as poor as 6/10 progression on the table, but magically they get full spellcasting because of the text. But hey, I'm not going to argue with the wizened board members who know better than me.
teshen 04-04-07, 08:11 PM	Yes, very strange. . . But hey, I'm not going to argue with the wizened board members who know better than me. I do sometimes. :D But it usually hurts. :doh:
Guy42 04-04-07, 09:07 PM	I'm suprised there is no errata or anything concerning that. Giving a full BAB class full spell progression seems weird, and I doubt many DMs would be too happy about you not going off the table, despite what the text may say.
Barloch 04-04-07, 10:20 PM	WotC is fully aware that text > tables and I'd imagine they're fully aware of many of these classes texts. If the table was what they had really wanted they're errata the text.
geekmasterflash 04-05-07, 01:13 AM	Ninja Spy, for the win. In the 3.5 Update to OA published in Dragon 318, it was left as is. So, have fun.