Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Corsair420 04-07-07, 01:30 PM	I started this class awhile ago but never finished it until a couple days ago, I think it's pretty balanced but I could be wrong, let me know what you think. Keep in mind it is still a work in progress, so I just have the basics. Requirements Alignment: Any Race: Any Base Attack Bonus +5 Skills: Knowledge (Arcane) 8 ranks, Craft (Arrows) 5 Feats: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow or Shortbow) Special: Must have been struck by lightning(magical or natural) and survived (just like a Stormlord) Level BAB Fort Ref will Abilities ----------------------------------------------------- 1 +1 +1 +1 +0 Imbue Arrow 1/day 2 +2 +1 +1 +0 Lightning Bolt 1/day 3 +3 +2 +2 +1 Piercing Arrows +1, Electricity Resistance 10 4 +4 +2 +2 +1 Imbue Arrow 2/day 5 +5 +3 +3 +1 Lightning Bolt 2/day 6 +6 +3 +3 +2 Call Lightning 1/day, Piercing Arrows +2 7 +7 +4 +4 +2 Imbue Arrow 3/day, Electricity Resistance 20 8 +8 +4 +4 +2 Lightning bolt 3/day 9 +9 +5 +5 +3 Barbed Arrows, Piercing Arrows +3 10 +10 +5 +5 +3 Call Lightning Storm 1/day, Electricity Immunity Special Abilities: Imbue Arrow: Once per day the Shock Archer may imbue his arrows with a small amount of magic causing the arrows to deal an extra 1d6 damage on a succesful attack. The arrow is considered a magic weapon. Imbue Arrow also grants a +1 to the attack roll of the Imbued arrow. Times per Day and the damage increases every 3 levels(4th level 2/day, +2d6 damage, 7th level 3/day, +3d6 damage) Lightning Bolt: Starting at 2nd level(and every 3 after) a Shock Archer may cast a Lightning Bolt once per day, causing 2d6(+1d6 every other level, maximum 6d6 at 10th level) points of energy damage to a single target. Reflex save DC 10+ Shock Archer level for half damage Piercing Arrows: At 3rd level the Shock Archer has learned how to bestow a small amount of energy to all of his arrows, giving them the ability to pierce even the toughest of armors. This aiblity grants a +1 to all attack rolls made by the Shock Archer. All arrows fired once the Shock Archer reaches 3rd level are considered magical weapons. The bonus does stack with the Imbue Arrows ability. This bonus increases to +2 at 6th level and +3 at 9th Electricity Resistance: The Shock Archer gains an Energy Resistance of 10, this increases to 20 at 7th level Call Lightning: At 6th level the Shock Archer gains the ability to Call Lightning as the spell, cast by a druid of the same level once per day Barbed Arrows: At 9th level the Shock archer has learned how to craft barbs onto his arrows, giving them a +1 to their critical multiplier (x3 goes to a x4). Using this ability requires a DC 10 Craft (Arrows) check and requires 2 hour per 20 arrows to make. Call Lightning Storm: At 10th level the Shock archer may cast Call Lightning Storm as the spell, cast by a druid of the same level once per day Electricity Immunity: At 10th level the Shock gains immunity all energy Well that's what I have so far, please tell me what you think. As I said this is my first attempt at a PrC so any comments are welcome
crimsonwolf 04-07-07, 01:49 PM	storm lord who is a melee fighting i cna understand casting lighting down on sorry ass knights in fornt of him ... but a archer.. woulndt casting chainlighting be better? and mybe for a 10th level give him storm of vengence
Corsair420 04-07-07, 04:10 PM	i'll take a look at storm of vengence, I just wanted it to be a lightning based prestige class for a ranger, I love rangers and lightning and lightning storm just kinda seemed like an obvious choice from lightning bolt to call lightning to call lightning storm
Tuhljin 04-07-07, 04:40 PM	I like it. Everything can always be improved, though, so keep an eye out for new ideas, but overall it seems well done. You mention "energy resistance" but I think what you were going for was resistance to electricity, right? Not all energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) - immunity to all that is a bit much. :cool: Also, I think you should mention that when the archer uses Imbue Arrow or Piercing Arrows that the arrow counts as a magical weapon. Just saying it gets +1 to the roll doesn't necessarily mean that it's magical. And you should specify whether the +1 from Imbue Arrow stacks with the +X from Piercing Arrows.
Corsair420 04-07-07, 05:30 PM	Yes I did mean electricity resistance, I usually don't make chars that get it so I figured energy meant electricity. and yea, I didn't think about the magical weapon part of it, that could be the difference between a hit that kills and the party being stomped,
Toast_recon 04-07-07, 05:55 PM	also you may want to say that the Imbue arrow ability makes the arrow deal 1d6 electricity damage. The idea is that he gives his arrows a charge, right? For instance, if it was electricity damage, the damage wouldn't apply to other shock archers. Just an idea.
crimsonwolf 04-07-07, 06:28 PM	as going back to my idea which i think you didnt answer repalce call lighting to chain lighitng
Corsair420 04-07-07, 07:29 PM	yea I forgot to throw something in there about chain lightning when I replied. I don't want to use it because I want it to be more of a fighting class as opposed to spell casting, both call lightning spells are pretty much fire and forget, while lightning bolt is like the first thing you do in an encounter, the rest is shooting
Karzach 04-08-07, 01:58 AM	On Call Lightning, when referring to the casting level, did you mean equal level Shock Archer, or character level?
Corsair420 04-08-07, 02:13 AM	It's Shock Archer level
Molot 04-08-07, 10:00 AM	I started this class awhile ago but never finished it until a couple days ago, I think it's pretty balanced but I could be wrong, let me know what you think.You've got point by point thoughts / critique. I hope it'll help and I know not all might agree with me. Keep in mind it is still a work in progress, so I just have the basics.If you'd consider it finished, then there would be no need to post opinions :D Requirements Alignment: Any Race: Any If any, then why to write about it at all? As well you might put Patron Deity: Any... and much more :D Base Attack Bonus +5 Skills: Knowledge (Arcane) 8 ranks,So it's for hexblade, isn't it? Only he can make it in 5 levels. Multiclassed characters could get it in 6 levels, but with higher cost due to cross class skill learning or able learner / education feat. Craft (Arrows) 5Doesn't exist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know only about more general Craft (Weapon smith) & Craft (bowmaking). Feats: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow or Shortbow)I'd change to Any Bow, as there are some more exotic bows in the game as I recall (footbow in Savage Species, was it?). They shouldn't be discriminated. Special: Must have been struck by lightning(magical or natural) and survived (just like a Stormlord)That one seems thematically ok. Level BAB Fort Ref will AbilitiesI'm strongly against half saves. In all official books there are only strong and weak progressions. I never get to know why it is not enough for people. Fort does not make a big sense for archer - should be weak. Ref is useful for snipers - strong. Will makes it's way to the arcane flavoured classes - might be strong... it wouldn't hurt the balance of this PrC to have 2 strong saves. Imbue Arrow: Once per day the Shock Archer may imbue his arrows with a small amount of magic causing the arrows to deal an extra 1d6 damage on a succesful attack.Did you really meant unnamed damage?! I hope you meant electric damage. How does it stack with other bonuses, for example those of bow or arrows? The arrow is considered a magic weapon. Imbue Arrow also grants a +1 to the attack roll of the Imbued arrow. Times per Day and the damage increases every 3 levels(4th level 2/day, +2d6 damage, 7th level 3/day, +3d6 damage)Looks kinda weak, but other abilities might make the power for the class. Lightning Bolt: Starting at 2nd level(and every 3 after) a Shock Archer may cast a Lightning Bolt once per day, causing 2d6(+1d6 every other level, maximum 6d6 at 10th level) points of energy damage to a single target. Reflex save DC 10+ Shock Archer level for half damageIs that any good? At least add his Cha bonus to the DC, otherwise all will pass the save check. Once a day? Make it equal to his Cha bonus so he could at least kill one person / day with it. Piercing Arrows: At 3rd level the Shock Archer has learned how to bestow a small amount of energy to all of his arrows, giving them the ability to pierce even the toughest of armors. This aiblity grants a +1 to all attack rolls made by the Shock Archer. All arrows fired once the Shock Archer reaches 3rd level are considered magical weapons. The bonus does stack with the Imbue Arrows ability. This bonus increases to +2 at 6th level and +3 at 9thSo if one is protected against all magic, Shock Archer cannot hurt him, but normal archer (like ranger) can. Sweet nonsense. Also, if this ability represents the potential to pierce through armours, it should cap at target's armour bonus. Electricity Resistance: The Shock Archer gains an Energy Resistance of 10, this increases to 20 at 7th levelWhy not. Call Lightning: At 6th level the Shock Archer gains the ability to Call Lightning as the spell, cast by a druid of the same level once per day"the same level" means "the same as a level in a class that gave the ability it is used in". Change it to character level, double the Shock Archer level or anything that'd scale 1-20 pre-epic. Also, it'd be good to explicitly write what the save is. Barbed Arrows: At 9th level the Shock archer has learned how to craft barbs onto his arrows, giving them a +1 to their critical multiplier (x3 goes to a x4). Using this ability requires a DC 10 Craft (Arrows) check and requires 2 hour per 20 arrows to make.Is he archer or a crafter? More mechanically - can he do it only with masterwork arrows, or with just any arrow? DC 10 at this level is simply funny, as he will have 5 ranks from requirements. At worst case, he'd need 5 from dice... But if he wants to go crafter, he'd have decent int (+2), maxed ranks (14 or more)... He'd need -6 or higher at d20. He cannot fail even under very hard circumstances! Call Lightning Storm: At 10th level the Shock archer may cast Call Lightning Storm as the spell, cast by a druid of the same level once per dayLook at the comments on Call Lightning Electricity Immunity: At 10th level the Shock gains immunity all energy Looks OK Well that's what I have so far, please tell me what you think. As I said this is my first attempt at a PrC so any comments are welcomeSeems kinda weak overall, but maybe that's only me.
Corsair420 04-08-07, 12:26 PM	You've got point by point thoughts / critique. I hope it'll help and I know not all might agree with me. I meant for this class to be used in games where your mainly around 10-15th level, I don't want it to be a power class, I wanted to be able to take it at 6th level so i can get some of the good things from the core class you choose. When I said keep in mind its a work in progress, I meant that some people put in class descriptions, adventuring, and all that stuff before the actualy character stats and requirements. I made this class for rangers, if you look at the saves, it just continues onto the rangers saves fort and ref get +1 every other level and will gets +1 every 3 levels. it would also accent a fighters saves but not nearly as much. I want it to be more of a fighting class as opposed to an arcane class, as for the WF feat, I guess it could be changed to any bow, but i've really looked at other bows, usually i'm making a 2 weapon fighting ranger As for the skills, Craft and Knowledge are general skills, you could be skilled at crafting a multitude of thigns and know about anything. I had a campaign where someone took craft glassblowing and he made alchemical arrows that delivered alchemists fire as a ranged attack instead of a throw. So having craft arrows isn't that obscure, the more I think about it, your right the craft DC is to low, I want it to be hard at first so I think i'll boost it to like 15 or 18, and add like, if oyu fail the check you destroy 1d6 or 1d8 arrows. For Imbue arrows, I thought that saying Extra 1d6 damage was kinda self explanatory, it would stack with the bows damage. it may look kinda weak but think of it this way. Your fighting a hard monster in the campaign, your a 14th level ranger(5th lvl)/shock archer(9th lvl), at 14th level you have 3 attacks, that means that in one round you can do 3d8+9d6 damage not including str bonuses, that means your going to average around 50-60 damage in the first round and thats not including a possible 1d8 x4 from criting with a barbed arrow, follow that up with another 20 damage from a 6d6 lightning bolt, then drop more lightning with call lightning for 3d6(or 3d10 in stormy wheather) so on average counting 1 critical hit and saying you have an 18 in str at 14th level thats 2d8+4+9d6 +(1d8x4)+6d6= a maximum of 154 damge in 2 rounds, vs anything short of a tarrasque thats quite a bit of damage. thats not including the other 2 lightning bolts you have at 9th level shock archer. And all that damage is from the back row, you still have your fighters and spell casting throwing damage in as well. For the call lightning spells, it says as the spell as cast by a druid of the same level, so all you have to do is turn to page like 214 in the PHB and see the spell. For piercing arrows, I guess I could say that it's for overcoming damage reduction, but as I said this is more for mid level campaigns how many things for an 8th level party have complete magic protection? Thanks for the input I hope that answers your questions, I know it helped me.
Molot 04-08-07, 03:28 PM	I made this class for rangers, if you look at the saves, it just continues onto the rangers saves fort and ref get +1 every other level and will gets +1 every 3 levels.But it gets screwed anyway if the entry class will be anything other than ranger, or if he'll enter it at other level than you intended. Better option is to use fractional bab and fractional saves optional rule, and give this PrC normal progression, thus making it compatible with normal games and independent from the base class used to enter. as for the WF feat, I guess it could be changed to any bow, but i've really looked at other bows, usually i'm making a 2 weapon fighting rangerI simply don't understand "but" part. I see no reason to not use "any bow" here... As for the skills, Craft and Knowledge are general skills, you could be skilled at crafting a multitude of thigns and know about anything. I had a campaign where someone took craft glassblowing and he made alchemical arrows that delivered alchemists fire as a ranged attack instead of a throw. So having craft arrows isn't that obscureThere are some "classic" crafts, used in PrC requirements, computer games, official D&D character generator (some time ago, 3.0e, downloadable from Wizzies website). Arrows falls under Bowmaking in all of them, if I recall correctly. I can't find a DC of making dorm arrows in the book, sadly. There'd be the sub-craft arrows officially falls under. the more I think about it, your right the craft DC is to low, I want it to be hard at first so I think i'll boost it to like 15 or 18, and add like, if oyu fail the check you destroy 1d6 or 1d8 arrows.If you fail craft check by more than 5, you destroy half of material. This is official rule from book, and is enough in my opinion. For Imbue arrows, I thought that saying Extra 1d6 damage was kinda self explanatory, it would stack with the bows damage.What kind of damage? Unnamed is too strong. Nothing, just nothing in the game would be resistant / immune to it. Make it either electric or half-electric/half raw magic damage. I'd prefer pure electric. Unnamed is waaaay overpowered. Note that by the rules electric from class does not stack with electric from bow and from arrow. To override this, you'd need put explicit note on this. it may look kinda weak but think of it this way.OK For the call lightning spells, it says as the spell as cast by a druid of the same level, so all you have to do is turn to page like 214 in the PHB and see the spell.I know. I've only said that it would be nice if you'd put it explicitly. Just to make it simple to use. For piercing arrows, I guess I could say that it's for overcoming damage reduction, but as I said this is more for mid level campaigns how many things for an 8th level party have complete magic protection?In 2e times there was spell explicitly protecting against magic arrows. I'm not sure if it was ported to 3.5, but if not, then it's rather matter of time... And it was mid level. I would add option to suppress that ability. And either change the name or make it works as the name suggests. Thanks for the input I hope that answers your questions, I know it helped me.You answered some parts, other things I posted above.
Corsair420 04-08-07, 05:14 PM	I meant to say i've never really looked at other bows, the only ones I really knew about were just longbow and shortbow(composite and mighty), any bow works so I can change that one. Changing the imbue to electricity damage works as well. What are the fractinal bab and save rules? those are unfamiliar to me. Originally I was goign to sue craft (bowmaking) but that didn't seem to fit since the class wasn't really making bows, but bowmaking would work I guess. Failing a save I know ruins half the materials, but I wasn't sure if that would work when working on an entire quiver of arrows Making the piercing arrows activatable seems likes its just a really big hassle I understand what your saying, but I dunno, i'll think about it cause it just seems off to me
Molot 04-08-07, 05:47 PM	I meant to say i've never really looked at other bows, the only ones I really knew about were just longbow and shortbow(composite and mighty), any bow works so I can change that one. Changing the imbue to electricity damage works as well.So at those points we agreed :) But I can't see changes in first post, sadly. What are the fractinal bab and save rules? those are unfamiliar to me.Simply, by this rules you: Uses equations that stands behind bab and saves tables, and rounds the final for a character, not for each class separately. counts levels of classes with strong save as if they were levels in the same class. counts levels of classes with strong save as if they were levels in the same class. Example: Fighter 1 / monk 2 / sorcerer 3 BAB: Strong 1 + medium 2 + weak 3 = 1 * 1 + 3/4 * 2 + 1/2 * 3 = 1+ 3/2 + 3/2 = 4 (by normal rules it would be 3, loosing two halves - from monk and from sorcerer) Fort: 1+2 strong + 3 weak = [2 + 1/2 * 3] + [3 * 1/3] = 2 + 3/2 + 1 = 4.5 round down = 4 (by normal rules it would be 6, due to second initial 2 for classes with strong save) As you can see, this variant gives smoother, more balanced progression. Originally I was goign to sue craft (bowmaking) but that didn't seem to fit since the class wasn't really making bows, but bowmaking would work I guess.I've always played that way and all I know does that... Too specific craft skills would make them way underpowered anyway. Failing a save I know ruins half the materials, but I wasn't sure if that would work when working on an entire quiver of arrowsIt was never explicitly stated that it does or does not. You might put a note that it does into PrC, just to avoid "double tax" :D Making the piercing arrows activatable seems likes its just a really big hassle I understand what your saying, but I dunno, i'll think about it cause it just seems off to meIf you will not, I'll find the spell I talked about :schemes:
Corsair420 04-08-07, 06:30 PM	The fractinal saves and bab thing kinda confuses me, is it in any of the books or is it just something someone thought up? And as for the spell go ahead and look for it if you really want to.
Molot 04-08-07, 06:35 PM	The fractinal saves and bab thing kinda confuses me, is it in any of the books or is it just something someone thought up?Unearthed Arcana, the sidebar on page 73. Ask google for D&D "fractional bab" or D&D "fractional saves" fore some other write-ups of that rule, it's easy and give many ways of wording / calculating it (with the same result, of course). And as for the spell go ahead and look for it if you really want to.It was just a joke, you know...
Perseus_Stoned 04-08-07, 06:45 PM	Electricity Immunity: At 10th level the Shock gains immunity all energy I assume you mean electric energy here, right? Also whats his hit die and class skills? also you may want to say that the Imbue arrow ability makes the arrow deal 1d6 electricity damage. The idea is that he gives his arrows a charge, right? For instance, if it was electricity damage, the damage wouldn't apply to other shock archers. Just an idea. I like the idea of having *one part* of this class not centered around electricity and instead focused on a more magical aspect. It should be magic damage though, not unnamed. Consider everything Molot said to be seconded by me, except for his parting comment in his first post. While I see this class as being balanced, it is not balanced when compared to some of the other archer PrCs (which is okay in my book since those suck). This isn't something that can be completely broken, so its not overpowered, but seems fine by me. It should be Craft (Bowmaking), since crafting arrows is already established as a precedent in that skill. You might want to include an ability that lets your arrows fly true through strong winds (AKA windwall cheese and the like), to help your archer get some momentum in epic levels.
Corsair420 04-09-07, 03:58 AM	Yea I did mean electricity, I didn't see that one when I changed em all, I probably will make it magic energy for the imbue arrows and change the craft to bowmaking. I didn't even think about this char fighting in stormy wheather, I could add something to make him better in stormy battles. yea the hit die and class skills and stuff I haven't done yet, but I know the hit die is going to be d8 and the class skills are probably gonna be the same as a ranger, i'ma take a look at the class skills for the ranger then get back later