Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StruckingFuggle 09-17-07, 06:47 PM	This PrC has its origins way back before I heard of the Telflammar Shadowlord. Way before ToB came out. When I thought the core Shadowdancer sucked, and wanted to make a more powerful version. Then I got ToB, and I thought, man this is cool stuff. And I thought how you could go from being a Shadow Hand-focused Swordsage to a Telflammar Shadowlord … I sat on that idea for a while, and then when cleaning out my computer, I found the notefile containing my ideas for the original version; and thought "you know what would be better than a Swordsage / Shadowlord? A Sublime Shadowlord PrC". And thus, it was reworked into this, a Master PrC for the Shadow Hand Discipline. Which means I have eight more coming, because I have entirely too many ideas. : ) … I hope you enjoy it. Oh. For those of you who wonder: as far as balance goes, I want to use the level of a well-built Martial Adept as my meter stick. Maybe a little bit higher than that – I don’t want to match their power curve to that of well-played spellcasters, but I’d like to come close enough that you can hold on to the show. So enjoy; and all feedback, on the concept, the execution, the balance, it’s more than welcome. Have at me! I very much value opinions, even if I'm tired of capping thread titles off with PEACH or PEAR. :p I figure it's a given that people want comments, that's why we're posting, eh? When it comes to class abilities, fluff is in italics, crunch in plaintext. SHADOW KNIGHT Wherever you shall find light, you shall find Shadow. Wherever you shall find the shadow, you shall find me. ~Mautheo Elrentholm, Knife of the Night (pic and short fluffy story coming soon) Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus: +4 Skills: Hide 9 ranks, Martial Lore 9 ranks, Concentration 6 ranks, Sense Motive 6 ranks, Jump 6 ranks Maneuvers: Three Shadow Hand maneuvers, one Diamond Mind maneuver, and one Setting Sun maneuver. Stances: One Shadow Hand stance, and one stance from either the Diamond Mind or Setting Sun discipline. Special: Stances may not be used as maneuvers for determining the prerequisites for entry into the Shadow Knight prestige class. Feats: Shadow Blade, Skill Focus (Hide). The Shadow Knight's class skills (and key ability for each skill) are: Balance (dex), Bluff (cha), Concentration (con), Craft (int), Hide (dex), Jump (str), Martial Lore (int), Move Silently (dex), Profession (wis), Sense Motive (wis), and Tumble (dex). Skill Points: 4+Int hitdice: d8 Lv BAB Fort Ref Will Special 01 +0 +0 +2 +1 Shadow Cladding, Darkvision 15’, Partial Jaunt 02 +1 +0 +3 +2 Maneuvers, AC Bonus, Kidney Shot 03 +2 +1 +3 +2 Speed Boost, Adaptive Assassin 04 +3 +1 +4 +2 Shadow Pounce 1/round, Darkvision 30’ 05 +3 +1 +4 +3 Maneuver Swap, One Shadow One Blade 06 +4 +2 +5 +3 Shadow Pounce 2/round, Lurk 07 +5 +2 +5 +4 Flickering Shadows, Darkvision 45’ 08 +6 +2 +6 +4 Shadow Pounce 3/round, Assassin’s Strike 09 +6 +3 +6 +4 Shadow Adept 10 +7 +3 +7 +5 Warp Counter, Shadow Pounce at will, Darkvision 60’, Superior Darkvision Advancements Lv MK MR Spd AC Stances 01 0 0 - 0 0 02 1 1 - 1 0 03 0 0 +5’ 1 0 04 1 0 - 1 0 05 0 0 - 2 1 06 1 1 +5’ 2 0 07 0 0 - 2 0 08 1 0 - 3 0 09 0 0 +5’ 3 0 10 1 1 - 3 0 (MK: Maneuvers Known) (MR: Maneuvers Readied) Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shadow Knight neither gains nor loses weapon or armor proficiencies. Shadow Cladding (su): The Shadow Knight is even more at home in the darkness than a traditional follower of the path of the Shadow Hand, and can tease protection from the plane of Shadow. At first level, the Shadow Knight gains a +4 circumstance bonus to hide and move silently checks. At 5th level, a Shadow Knight adds 10% to the miss chance he gains from any concealment, and gains a 25% miss chance after using any effect with the <teleportation> descriptor. This miss chance lasts until the beginning of his next turn. At 8th level, the Shadow Knight may gain raise a Shadow Cloak, wrapping him in protective tendrils of shadow. This is a spell-like ability, useable at will, that grants him concealment, a +6 circumstance bonus to hide and move silently checks, and an additional 10’ added to his speed bonus. This effect lasts for 1 round / level, and has a caster level equal to ½ his initiator level. In addition to being suppressed where the other benefits of Shadow Cladding would be, this effect is automatically dispelled within the radius of a spell with the <Light> descriptor of 5rd level or higher or in natural daylight. Casting Shadow Cloak ends the effects of your current stance (although you may assume it again as a swift action as normal). These effects are suppressed in the radius of a spell with the <Light> descriptor of 3rd level or higher, or within the radius of illumination (but not shadow illumination) from a light source. Darkvision (su): At level 1, the Shadow Knight either gains Darkvision to 15’ or his natural darkvision extends by 5’. At levels 4, 7, and 10, this distance increases by 15’ if he got +15’ at first level, or 5’ if he got +5’. Partial Jaunt: Whenever he initiates the Shadow Jaunt maneuver and does not move its full distance, he may as a part of the same action after the jaunt move up to half his move speed as a normal move, although this counts against the movement he may normally make a round and may not exceed the distance he could teleport using Shadow Jaunt. Maneuvers: At each even-numbered level, you gain one new maneuver known from the Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, or Shadow Hand disciplines. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisites to learn it. You add your full Shadow Knight levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known. At second level, and every four levels thereafter, you may ready an additional maneuver. This advancement does not allow you to swap lower-level maneuvers for higher ones at any point. Stances Known: At 5th level, the Shadow Knight learns a new martial stance from the Setting Sun or Shadow Hand discipline. You must meet a stance’s prerequisites to learn it. AC Bonus (su): When wearing no more than light armor and while no more than lightly encumbered, the Shadow Knight gains a +1 bonus to AC and +1 competence bonus to reflex saves against effects he is aware of. This bonus increases by 1 for every three Shadow Knight levels thereafter (+2 at 5th, and +3 at 8th level). This bonus applies to his normal and touch AC, but is suppressed in areas of magical light or bright illumination. He retains this bonus even when he would lose his dexterity bonus. Kidney Shot: At level 2, before making a normal melee attack roll, a Shadow Knight may declare his next attack to be a Kidney Shot. A foe damaged by a Kidney Shot must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to taking damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is drops everything held, can only take a single move action or standard action on his turns, takes a -2 penalty to AC and attack rolls, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC. Using this ability ends the effect of your current stance, even if the attempt is unsuccessful. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this effect, and this attack may only be made as a melee attack with a Shadow Hand weapon. The effects persist until the same point on the initiative list next turn, and can be remedied by anything effect that would remove the Stunned status. The Shadow Knight cannot use this ability on the same round he Initiates a strike, although it may be combined with boosts. Speed Boost: At 3rd level, a Shadow Knight gains a 5’ bonus to his land speed, and the distance he may travel with the Shadow Jaunt maneuver is also increased by the same bonus. A Shadow Knight in heavier than lighter armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. This bonus increases by 5’ for every three Shadow Knight levels thereafter (+10’ at 6th level, +15’ at 9th level). Adaptive Assassin (ex): If a Shadow Knight reduces a foe who poses a direct and immediate threat to him or his allies to 0 hp or below with a strike from one of the Shadow Knight disciplines and while using a Shadow Hand weapon, he may instantly ready 1d3 maneuvers. These maneuvers must be two levels below the max maneuver level he can Initiate or lower. However, if you have already initiated a specific maneuver this round and recover it with Adaptive Assassin, you may not initiate it again until your next round. Shadow Pounce (ex): Whenever a Shadow Knight moves via an effect with the [teleportation] descriptor on his turn, he may make a special full attack immediately afterwards; however he takes a -5 penalty to his BAB for each attack he has already made on his turn. He may never make more attacks a turn with this ability than he could with a normal full attack. At 6th level, so long as he could make at least two attacks, he may forgo all other attacks he is entitled to in the round to initiate a strike from a Shadow Knight discipline with an initiation action of a standard action that does not require additional movement, made with the attack bonus of his next attack. At 8th level, the Shadow Knight may delay these attacks until after he makes normal movement with the Partial Jaunt ability. The Shadow Knight may use this ability once per round at 4th level, twice per round at 6th level, three times per round at 8th level, and unlimited times per round at 10th level. Maneuver Swap: At 5th level, the Shadow Knight may choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one he already knows. He can choose a new maneuver of any level he likes, so long as he observes his restriction on highest-level the maneuvers he knows; he need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level." One Shadow One Blade: upon reaching 5th level, the Shadow Knight may pick a single light or one-handed finessable weapon that he is proficient with. This weapon is now considered to be a Shadow Hand weapon for the purposes of all feats, maneuvers, and class abilities that the Shadow Knight has that require using a chosen weapon of the Shadow Hand discipline. Lurk (ex): At 6th level, a Shadow Knight can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a Shadow Knight can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow. Additionally, after using any effect with the [teleportation] descriptor and provided he’s in some sort of shadow, a Shadow Knight may make a hide check as a free action at a -10 penalty. Flickering Shadows (su): The Shadow Knight’s AC bonus is doubled against attacks where the attacker has taken a penalty to his attack bonus, and takes only half the bonus damage from the Power Attack feat. He must be aware of the attack and, unlike the AC Bonus, gaining his Dexterity modifier to AC to gain the benefits of this ability. Damage taken from a successful attack the Shadow Knight gains extra AC from due to this ability is halved unless the attack was a critical hit. Assassins’ Strike: at 8(?)th level, you may swap a maneuver of 4th level or higher that you know and learn Assassin’s Strike in its place. Shadow Adept (ex): Upon reaching 9th level you may initiate a strike from a Shadow Knight discipline with an initiation action of one standard action or less (although you may not make any additional movement) at any time you are entitled to make a single attack, but not while taking a full-attack action. To use this ability, you must be in a Shadow Knight stance and using a Shadow Hand weapon. Superior Darkvision (su): At 10th level, the Shadow Knight’s darkvision becomes so acute, and his connection to the shadows so powerful, that his darkvision allows him to see into magical darkness to the distance of his Darkvision as if it were shadowy illumination, so long as the spell level is less than 1+ 1/3 his initiator level (rounding up) or the caster level of the Darkness is less than his initiator level. Warp Counter (ex): Upon reaching 10th level, the Shadow Knight learns how to bend the shadows to his defense and masters his Shadow Pounce ability. As immediate action, when he is in a Shadow Hand or Setting Sun stance and struck by a melee attack in combat, he may make a reflex save opposing your foe’s attack roll. If this save is successful, he may expend a readied maneuver to instantly and without provoking AoOs move to any square to which he has Line of Effect and from which he threatens the same foe. Their attack misses, and he may make a single attack against the foe, at his highest BAB. The foe is considered flat-footed against this attack, and the Shadow Knight’s threat range for the weapon he wields is increased by 1 (this effect stacks with Keen and Improved Critical, but is not doubled by it). If the foe is dropped to 0hp or below by this attack, his swift action for the next round is not consumed by using this ability. As a part of using this ability, he may change his stance to any Shadow Hand stance he knows. Finally, after making this attack and provided he is entitled to his benefits from Shadow Cladding, he may make a hide check at a -5 penalty. New Maneuvers: Assassins’ Strike Shadow Hand (Boost) Level: Swordsage 4(?) Prerequisites: 3 Shadow Hand maneuvers, Special. Initiation Action: Special Target: You Duration: End of turn As a part of your next attack made through the use of your Shadow Pounce ability, you may make a feint as a free action. If this feint and your attack are both successful, you deal an extra 4d6 damage and the DC to resist any effect delivered by a melee attack is raised by 2. Special: You may automatically initiate this boost as a non-action, if it is initiated as part of an ability, spell, or effect with the <teleportation> descriptor. Special: This Strike can only be learned through the Assassin’s Strike class ability. Shadow Spike Shadow Hand (Boost) Level: Swordsage 5 (?) Prerequisites: 2 shadow hand maneuvers, one of which must have the <teleportation> descriptor. Initiation Action: Swift Target: You Upon initiating this boost, you gain an extra 10’ bonus to the distance you may travel with any <teleportation> maneuver. In addition – okay. I don’t know who to phrase this in Technicalspeak. Basically, you can break the teleportation up into two sub-teleports, appearing between them just long enough to make a single attack. You must move at least 10’ with each teleport for this to work. Special: You must be in a Shadow Hand stance to initiate this maneuver. Special: If you initiate this boost, you may not gain any extra attacks from non-maneuver sources such as Shadow Pounce; but the attack from this maneuver does not count against the attacks you could make this turn. Shadow Spear Shadow Hand (Boost) Level: Swordsage 8 (?) Prerequisite: 3 shadow hand maneuvers, one of which must have the [teleportation] descriptor. Initiation Action: Swift Target: You As Shadow Spike, except you may break it up into as many sub-teleports as you want, making an attack between each sub-teleport, but taking a cumulative -5 penalty to your attack roll per attack, and only up to the number of attacks you could make in a single round, and you still must move 10’ between teleports. Mantle of Night Shadow Hand [Darkness] Level: Swordsage 4 (?) Prerequisite: 2 shadow hand maneuvers Initiation Action: Standard Target: Object touched Duration: 1 round / initiator level This ability functions as the spell Darkness, except as noted. The radius is 5’ per two initiator levels. The Swordsage may spend a full-round action to initiate this maneuver instead of a standard action, and if so the ability functions as Deeper Darkness, except as noted; however doing this provokes attacks of opportunity. The maneuver is a supernatural effect. Note: 4th level maneuver, because it's a at-near-will for a 2nd/3rd level spell that's very useful to the Shadow Knight. Solitary Shadows Shadow Hand (Stance) Level: Swordsage 7 Requires: Four Shadow Hand maneuvers, two of which must be stances. Initiation action: Special. Target: You Duration: Stance Benefit: This Stance prevents [teleportation] effects of below 8th level into any area adjacent to the Adept; and functions as the spell Anticipate Teleportation, with a fixed 15’ radius. Unlike normal stances, Solitary Shadows cannot be initiated with a swift action. Rather, while not in direct light and in a shadow-hand stance, the adept may take a full-round action to lose the benefits of his current stance and gain the benefits of Solitary Shadows. This effect ends, returning the adept to his previous stance, if the adept enters an area of direct light (bright illumination or daylight), or the radius of a light spell of greater than 3rd level that effects an area. Special: Unlike most stances, the initiating Solitary Shadows takes a full-round action. This maneuver is a supernatural effect. 7th level because it seemed like a high-level effect and that's when you get high-level stances. Not sure if it's that useful, though, or useful at all. SAMPLE NPC Coming soon! Updates Update 1: Removed stacking with Quick To Act Update 2: Removed Slayer, monkeyed with Assassin's Strike a bit, moved One Shadow One Blade to level 5 (and corrected an oversight so it works with one-handed and light melee weapons).
StruckingFuggle 09-17-07, 06:48 PM	So, this is where I talk about all of my design decisions, so you can see where I’m coming from. Naming: *In truth, I dislike the name "Shadow Knight". They’re not knights. On the other hand, they may represent the idea of Knighthood from a ‘shadow perspective’. But still – it’s the first thing I could come up with to replace “Warp Knight”. Why ‘Warp Knight’? It’s what the ‘class’ was called when I conceived it, working on something other than dnd, when I was sixteen. I have yet to figure out a suitable replacement (though perhaps ‘Warp Blade’…) *Kidney Shot – I don’t like the name, nor does it necessarily have to be a knife to the kidneys, but heh. It’s better than Freezing Stab and Limb-lock Slash. *Shadow Cladding – "To cover with a protective or insulating layer of other material.” I thought, for lack of a better name idea, it made sense. The Prerequisites: Well, I was shooting for “entry at 7th level”. Hence the BAB and skill rank requirements. You can beat the BAB requirement, but it’s just low enough to let a straight-classed Swordsage in, with max ranks in the Shadow Hand skill and a good number of ranks at that level for its sub-schools. Martial Lore is at 9 because I figure to get into a “Master Discipline PrC”, you need to know a lot about it. Jump is just a sort of cost-requirement in part a holdover from it being an ‘upgraded shadowdancer’. Maneuvers: Shadow Hand PrC = need to know several Shadow Hand maneuvers, as well as one each from its subschools. I made a special case that they can’t be stances to make the maneuver requirements more stringent. As for feats, Shadow Blade seemed a natural. I was shooting for two requirement feats to leave one feat slot ‘open’ for characters so that there’s maybe some difference between them, though I see the open slot ending up either Weapon Finesse or Adaptive Style. I thought about making AS a requirement instead of SF(Hide) (which is really just there to take space and be sub-optimal but offer some benefit), but then the feats are basically no-cost for a Swordsage. It’d be what you take as a Swordsage, usually. Class Skills: Fairly basic, I think. Balance, Bluff, Move Silently, and tumble because they’re rogue-y (and could potentially feint if they wanted), Concentration, Hide, and Sense Motive because they’re class-discipline skills, Craft and Profession because everyone (/should) get them, Jump because it’s a requirement even if I don’t ever see them jumping (hm, maybe that should be axed), and Martial Lore because they’re a Martial Adept class. They get 4+int skills / level just to make it a bit costly compared to the Swordsage, because they’re not quite as skill-monkey-ey and not as focused around as many disciplines, so they don’t need to ‘keep up’ on as many skills. Hit Dice: d8, same as the Swordsage, since it’s a Swordsage-focused PrC. Since it’s focused on Shadow Hand, and more rogue-y than the typical Swordsage, and it’s what the Shadowlord has, I briefly considered the d6 – but it’s still an in-melee character, and d6ers have no place in the thick of combat. Though since it’s a PrC, rather than a base class, and thus only 10 levels instead of 20, it ends up only an average difference of 10 hp. Saves: Good reflex and bad fort, keeping the Swordsage progression. Yes, I use Average Saves. Will loses a bit, because the Swordsage gets good will, but this moves away from that focus, too, and so it loses a bit of will save, without falling to poor. Next are my thoughts on the abilities in their original form, explaining why the Shadow Knight has them from the standpoint of fluff and mechanics. As a preface on mechanics, I know it’s a bit loaded, but I find it easier to shove everything I want them to have in, and then remove and change what’s necessary to achieve balance. Plus, I just couldn’t decide. =) Weapon and Armor Proficiency: they stay as they are, since they mostly use Discipline weapons, light armor, and no shields. But could use a shield if they got the proficiency. Swordsage Abilities: I see them as being quick on the draw, so I decided to let it stack with Quick To Act for a few extra points of initiative. (Got rid of this one. Couldn't really defend it) Shadow Cladding: Not as iconic an ability as Shadow Pounce, but I think it’s pretty neat. Fading into the shadows. When it comes to the Shadow Cloak effect, it’s basically an at-will blur/expeditious retreat. At 14th level minimum, I don’t really think that’s too bad. Maybe a bit weak? It seems a bit weak, hence it ending your current stance but not subsuming it like several other PrC ‘pseudostances’ do. Darkvision: Well, it doesn’t make sense for a so-called ‘Shadow Knight’, focused on being in darkness, to be unable to see at night, now does it? =) … I had it expand on Darkvision at 1/3 the ‘normal’ rate if you already had it, just so we don’t get people with 180’ Darkvision. It seemed like a bit much. Partial Jaunt: It’s meant to allow you to Jaunt close to someone in either a Solitary Shadows stance or inside a Dimensional Anchor and then walk inside to get them, same as Anticipate Teleportation. But since it’s a bit tricksy, I’m thinking that maybe it should be a bit higher in level. Maneuvers & Stances: It’s an Initiator PrC, so of course it gets maneuvers. I have a section below talking about the advancement. AC Bonus: I wanted them to have a heavy-fighter-weight AC, and though they’re bound to light armor to take advantage of everything, they still end up counted as wearing medium or heavy armor (plus bonuses later on). As for fluff, at this point I see it sort of as an extension of Shadow Cladding, wreathing yourself in a bit of mildly obfuscate-y Shadowstuff to make it harder to pin you down. It’s not as good as armor, because it doesn’t function in the light, and I’ve been on and off (was ‘off’ when I decided to post, obviously) on making it a magical effect, so it could be suppressed in an AMF, too. Kidney Shot: Originally they got ‘Stunning Fist’, but then I figured at a higher level, they’d take Freezing The Lifeblood, and (especially combined with Slayer), I didn’t want them to be able to do that, or take any of the other Stunning Fist feats with it. Plus, that allowed me to make the action penalty be Slow, rather than stunned, so that it’s slightly less powerful, because it’s more at will more times per day than stunning fist. I’ve thought occasionally about changing the damage (only bonuses, only weapon damage, half damage) to try and make it more “do I slow them, or do I use something to deal more damage?” – but I think that’s the sort of thing that needs to be tested. Speed Boost: It started with wanting to increase the ‘Jaunt’ distance a little bit for the masters (I may double that benefit for Jaunt, but that may be a bit silly), and then I was thinking maybe they should be a bit speedier in general. Adaptive Assassin: They burn through a lot of maneuvers, and might even enter the class without Adaptive Style. Plus, I wanted to give each Master PrC an extra way of recovering a few maneuvers, and I like the feel of AA. The restriction at the end is in there so you don’t somehow gain extra maneuvers and keep initiating them, to hopefully avoid any sort of potential for crazy ‘infinite’ loops. Shadow Pounce: this is the signature ability of the class. Teleport-STAB! It’s staggered as it is so that even if you have multiple ways of teleporting, you can’t (automatically) port, stab, port, stab, port, stab… And you can’t use it to get extra attacks, as some readings of the Shadowlord’s Shadow Pounce allows. I couldn’t think of a better way to state it, so I just stated outright and hope it came across, if you had a “pool” of the attacks you could make a round, Shadow Pounce doesn’t let you get more. So no Pounce, Full Attack, Pounce, Full Attack Two (heh, unless you have Time Stands Still). This is absolutely the last item on the chopping block. =) Maneuver Swap: Another cost of the PrC. It doesn’t progress maneuver swap at the rate of normal classes, but instead only one swap at level 5. Slayer: It’s a weaker (arguably?) version of Death Attack, that requires some sort of setup to use. Honestly, if it’s overfull (and I think it is) this will be one of the first abilities on the chopping block. It’s too conditional, and basically an edited version of a free feat. Lurk: They originally started with Hide In Plain Sight, and then I modified it / personalized it a little. As master Shadow Jaunters and already a bit concealed when they bamf (Shadow Cladding), it seemed only logical that they should be able to warp-hide. Though the penalty, come to think of it, is a bit offset by Shadow Cladding. Maybe I should make it -15? Flickering Shadows: It’s a skill to make them more frontline, a mild sort of Elusive Target for free, meant to represent that it takes precision to pin down and score a telling blow against someone concealed in a swirling mist of personal shadows, and to give them a bit more frontline survivability. Assassins’ Strike: I bounced between giving them this maneuver, letting the first pounce catch them flatfooted anyway (too powerful), and letting them swap for it specifically in the place of a previously known maneuver. In the end I settled for the third one. I did want them all to have the opportunity to pop behind someone, go “surprise!”, and catch them unaware. Though I’m starting to think that since Bluff is a class skill for SKs, maybe Assassin’s Strike should be modeled as feinting as a free action once per round (+more, if it’s a foe who hasn’t seen it in this battle?), instead of the boost it is. Shadow Adept: Basically, all of my Discipline Master series PrCs are going to have some version of this ability, be it ‘at the end of a charge’ or ‘as a part of a full attack action’ or ‘as a part of an attack of opportunity’. Shadow Adept is the most generous, working on all of these except Full Attack. I’m thinking of making it merely “with the attack immediately following a [teleportation] effect. One Shadow One Blade: See Shadow Adept. Every discipline gets to pick one broadly thematically appropriate weapon from the vast list in all of these splatbooks and personal favors, and pick one to add. So maybe you’ve now got Shadow Blade with a Kukri or a Rapier or a Thinblade … at 15th level. I don’t see it as particularly unbalancing (except in some sort of radically unforeseen case), and in fact am considering moving it further earlier in the development. Its original position is that, thematically, it felt like a near-capstone when I wrote it. Superior Darkvision: Fluffwise, it’s like why they get darkvision in the beginning – after a point you’d expect someone who spends so much time in and with the darkness would get better at seeing it. And so he does, being Warp Counter: Shadow Pounce may be the signature move, but this is as much a part of the signature to me. The first name, compared to Shadow Pounce's last name. :) It's a decent capstone, I think. A hopefully-makeable reflex save vs. attack roll (just so they don't always do it) to use a minor shadow jaunt as an immediate action - to warp behind your opponent and skewer them when their pants are down. At least, that's the intent, and seems like the sort of thing a master Shadow Knight should be able to do. Disciplines it has access to and why: Shadow Hand: this one’s obvious, right? Diamond Mind: It seemed to fit, in that while it’s not sneaky or the like, a bunch of the strikes work as “assassin’s strikes” – they don’t have death attack, but warping behind someone and Nightmare Blade-ing them in the back seems pretty darn close. =P Setting Sun: I was going for “two sub-disciplines per class”, and Setting Sun is a decent fit for this whole vague ‘ninja’ vibe I see in the class. Plus, I want them to have access to Stance of Alacrity. Maneuvers Ready: Slightly slower than a swordsage. More abilities both fluff and crunchwise become slightly less focus on learning how to ready more maneuvers at once. Maneuvers Known: See Maneuvers Readied. It’s a slightly slower progression because you trade maneuvers for more class features, and in developing those features, they learn a few fewer maneuvers. Stances: It seems most PrCs give you a stance at level 5. I went with that, but now I’m thinking I need to look at it, it’s earliest-entry-scenario, and the class discipline lists so they can pick up a new, higher-level stance then. Maneuver Swap: Delayed progression to increase cost, simple as that. Comes at 5th level because that seemed to be the best place, though I can’t quite explain why. On the subject of maneuvers known, I have also been thinking of giving the Shadow Knight half-IL progression or three-fourths IL progression for non-Shadow Hand, and full for Shadow Hand. Is that too complex? / too punishing? The new Maneuvers / Stances: <coming soon>
Sleepwalker13666 09-18-07, 01:05 AM	So, this is where I talk about all of my design decisions, so you can see where I’m coming from. You wer'nt kidding about it being huge, well here I go: Naming: *In truth, I dislike the name "Shadow Knight". They’re not knights. On the other hand, they may represent the idea of Knighthood from a ‘shadow perspective’. But still – it’s the first thing I could come up with to replace “Warp Knight”. Why ‘Warp Knight’? It’s what the ‘class’ was called when I conceived it, working on something other than dnd, when I was sixteen. I have yet to figure out a suitable replacement (though perhaps ‘Warp Blade’…) *Kidney Shot – I don’t like the name, nor does it necessarily have to be a knife to the kidneys, but heh. It’s better than Freezing Stab and Limb-lock Slash. *Shadow Cladding – "To cover with a protective or insulating layer of other material.” I thought, for lack of a better name idea, it made sense. Shadow Knight=How bought Night Blades? Kidney Shot=Grueling blow? Shadow Cladding=Umbral Shroud? The Prerequisites: Well, I was shooting for “entry at 7th level”. Hence the BAB and skill rank requirements. You can beat the BAB requirement, but it’s just low enough to let a straight-classed Swordsage in, with max ranks in the Shadow Hand skill and a good number of ranks at that level for its sub-schools. Martial Lore is at 9 because I figure to get into a “Master Discipline PrC”, you need to know a lot about it. Jump is just a sort of cost-requirement in part a holdover from it being an ‘upgraded shadowdancer’. Maneuvers: Shadow Hand PrC = need to know several Shadow Hand maneuvers, as well as one each from its subschools. I made a special case that they can’t be stances to make the maneuver requirements more stringent. As for feats, Shadow Blade seemed a natural. I was shooting for two requirement feats to leave one feat slot ‘open’ for characters so that there’s maybe some difference between them, though I see the open slot ending up either Weapon Finesse or Adaptive Style. I thought about making AS a requirement instead of SF(Hide) (which is really just there to take space and be sub-optimal but offer some benefit), but then the feats are basically no-cost for a Swordsage. It’d be what you take as a Swordsage, usually. I see nothing wrong with the current setup. Class Skills: Fairly basic, I think. Balance, Bluff, Move Silently, and tumble because they’re rogue-y (and could potentially feint if they wanted), Concentration, Hide, and Sense Motive because they’re class-discipline skills, Craft and Profession because everyone (/should) get them, Jump because it’s a requirement even if I don’t ever see them jumping (hm, maybe that should be axed), and Martial Lore because they’re a Martial Adept class. They get 4+int skills / level just to make it a bit costly compared to the Swordsage, because they’re not quite as skill-monkey-ey and not as focused around as many disciplines, so they don’t need to ‘keep up’ on as many skills. Once again, fine as is. Hit Dice: d8, same as the Swordsage, since it’s a Swordsage-focused PrC. Since it’s focused on Shadow Hand, and more rogue-y than the typical Swordsage, and it’s what the Shadowlord has, I briefly considered the d6 – but it’s still an in-melee character, and d6ers have no place in the thick of combat. Though since it’s a PrC, rather than a base class, and thus only 10 levels instead of 20, it ends up only an average difference of 10 hp. Once again, fine as is. Saves: Good reflex and bad fort, keeping the Swordsage progression. Yes, I use Average Saves. Will loses a bit, because the Swordsage gets good will, but this moves away from that focus, too, and so it loses a bit of will save, without falling to poor. I'd change the fort to good, but thats just my :twocents: Next are my thoughts on the abilities in their original form, explaining why the Shadow Knight has them from the standpoint of fluff and mechanics. As a preface on mechanics, I know it’s a bit loaded, but I find it easier to shove everything I want them to have in, and then remove and change what’s necessary to achieve balance. Plus, I just couldn’t decide. =) I don't see anything wrong with the abilities considering how few maneuvers this PrC seems to get, though another option to consider, sense it is meant for a level 7 character to get into, you might expand it to a 13 level prc and give them more maneuvers. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: they stay as they are, since they mostly use Discipline weapons, light armor, and no shields. But could use a shield if they got the proficiency. Once again, fine as is. Swordsage Abilities: I see them as being quick on the draw, so I decided to let it stack with Quick To Act for a few extra points of initiative. (Got rid of this one. Couldn't really defend it) No Comment Shadow Cladding: Not as iconic an ability as Shadow Pounce, but I think it’s pretty neat. Fading into the shadows. When it comes to the Shadow Cloak effect, it’s basically an at-will blur/expeditious retreat. At 14th level minimum, I don’t really think that’s too bad. Maybe a bit weak? It seems a bit weak, hence it ending your current stance but not subsuming it like several other PrC ‘pseudostances’ do. I didn't notice a number of times per day (I did notice the duration however) so I'm going to assume for the time being it's at will, if thats the case I would change it to a stance unique to these guys. Darkvision: Well, it doesn’t make sense for a so-called ‘Shadow Knight’, focused on being in darkness, to be unable to see at night, now does it? =) … I had it expand on Darkvision at 1/3 the ‘normal’ rate if you already had it, just so we don’t get people with 180’ Darkvision. It seemed like a bit much. Once again, fine as is. Partial Jaunt: It’s meant to allow you to Jaunt close to someone in either a Solitary Shadows stance or inside a Dimensional Anchor and then walk inside to get them, same as Anticipate Teleportation. But since it’s a bit tricksy, I’m thinking that maybe it should be a bit higher in level. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I did find the description a little confusing at first, you might want to reword it a little. (course it could be because I'm tired.) Maneuvers & Stances: It’s an Initiator PrC, so of course it gets maneuvers. I have a section below talking about the advancement. seems okay AC Bonus: I wanted them to have a heavy-fighter-weight AC, and though they’re bound to light armor to take advantage of everything, they still end up counted as wearing medium or heavy armor (plus bonuses later on). As for fluff, at this point I see it sort of as an extension of Shadow Cladding, wreathing yourself in a bit of mildly obfuscate-y Shadowstuff to make it harder to pin you down. It’s not as good as armor, because it doesn’t function in the light, and I’ve been on and off (was ‘off’ when I decided to post, obviously) on making it a magical effect, so it could be suppressed in an AMF, too. I currently don't see anything wrong with it. Kidney Shot: Originally they got ‘Stunning Fist’, but then I figured at a higher level, they’d take Freezing The Lifeblood, and (especially combined with Slayer), I didn’t want them to be able to do that, or take any of the other Stunning Fist feats with it. Plus, that allowed me to make the action penalty be Slow, rather than stunned, so that it’s slightly less powerful, because it’s more at will more times per day than stunning fist. I’ve thought occasionally about changing the damage (only bonuses, only weapon damage, half damage) to try and make it more “do I slow them, or do I use something to deal more damage?” – but I think that’s the sort of thing that needs to be tested. I think it's fine. Speed Boost: It started with wanting to increase the ‘Jaunt’ distance a little bit for the masters (I may double that benefit for Jaunt, but that may be a bit silly), and then I was thinking maybe they should be a bit speedier in general. Once again, fine as is. Adaptive Assassin: They burn through a lot of maneuvers, and might even enter the class without Adaptive Style. Plus, I wanted to give each Master PrC an extra way of recovering a few maneuvers, and I like the feel of AA. The restriction at the end is in there so you don’t somehow gain extra maneuvers and keep initiating them, to hopefully avoid any sort of potential for crazy ‘infinite’ loops. Once again, fine as is. Shadow Pounce: this is the signature ability of the class. Teleport-STAB! It’s staggered as it is so that even if you have multiple ways of teleporting, you can’t (automatically) port, stab, port, stab, port, stab… And you can’t use it to get extra attacks, as some readings of the Shadowlord’s Shadow Pounce allows. I couldn’t think of a better way to state it, so I just stated outright and hope it came across, if you had a “pool” of the attacks you could make a round, Shadow Pounce doesn’t let you get more. So no Pounce, Full Attack, Pounce, Full Attack Two (heh, unless you have Time Stands Still). This is absolutely the last item on the chopping block. =) I'd change it to you can only target a single enemy once a round. Maneuver Swap: Another cost of the PrC. It doesn’t progress maneuver swap at the rate of normal classes, but instead only one swap at level 5. Once again, fine as is. Slayer: It’s a weaker (arguably?) version of Death Attack, that requires some sort of setup to use. Honestly, if it’s overfull (and I think it is) this will be one of the first abilities on the chopping block. It’s too conditional, and basically an edited version of a free feat. I'd say Kill it. Lurk: They originally started with Hide In Plain Sight, and then I modified it / personalized it a little. As master Shadow Jaunters and already a bit concealed when they bamf (Shadow Cladding), it seemed only logical that they should be able to warp-hide. Though the penalty, come to think of it, is a bit offset by Shadow Cladding. Maybe I should make it -15? Nah, -10 is enough. Flickering Shadows: It’s a skill to make them more frontline, a mild sort of Elusive Target for free, meant to represent that it takes precision to pin down and score a telling blow against someone concealed in a swirling mist of personal shadows, and to give them a bit more frontline survivability. Once again, fine as is. Assassins’ Strike: I bounced between giving them this maneuver, letting the first pounce catch them flatfooted anyway (too powerful), and letting them swap for it specifically in the place of a previously known maneuver. In the end I settled for the third one. I did want them all to have the opportunity to pop behind someone, go “surprise!”, and catch them unaware. Though I’m starting to think that since Bluff is a class skill for SKs, maybe Assassin’s Strike should be modeled as feinting as a free action once per round (+more, if it’s a foe who hasn’t seen it in this battle?), instead of the boost it is. Go with your nerf. Shadow Adept: Basically, all of my Discipline Master series PrCs are going to have some version of this ability, be it ‘at the end of a charge’ or ‘as a part of a full attack action’ or ‘as a part of an attack of opportunity’. Shadow Adept is the most generous, working on all of these except Full Attack. I’m thinking of making it merely “with the attack immediately following a [teleportation] effect. Seems okay. One Shadow One Blade: See Shadow Adept. Every discipline gets to pick one broadly thematically appropriate weapon from the vast list in all of these splatbooks and personal favors, and pick one to add. So maybe you’ve now got Shadow Blade with a Kukri or a Rapier or a Thinblade … at 15th level. I don’t see it as particularly unbalancing (except in some sort of radically unforeseen case), and in fact am considering moving it further earlier in the development. Its original position is that, thematically, it felt like a near-capstone when I wrote it. Once again, fine as is. Superior Darkvision: Fluffwise, it’s like why they get darkvision in the beginning – after a point you’d expect someone who spends so much time in and with the darkness would get better at seeing it. And so he does, being Once again, fine as is. Warp Counter: Shadow Pounce may be the signature move, but this is as much a part of the signature to me. The first name, compared to Shadow Pounce's last name. :) It's a decent capstone, I think. A hopefully-makeable reflex save vs. attack roll (just so they don't always do it) to use a minor shadow jaunt as an immediate action - to warp behind your opponent and skewer them when their pants are down. At least, that's the intent, and seems like the sort of thing a master Shadow Knight should be able to do. I have trouble understanding the ability, it seems like a lot. Disciplines it has access to and why: Shadow Hand: this one’s obvious, right? Diamond Mind: It seemed to fit, in that while it’s not sneaky or the like, a bunch of the strikes work as “assassin’s strikes” – they don’t have death attack, but warping behind someone and Nightmare Blade-ing them in the back seems pretty darn close. =P Setting Sun: I was going for “two sub-disciplines per class”, and Setting Sun is a decent fit for this whole vague ‘ninja’ vibe I see in the class. Plus, I want them to have access to Stance of Alacrity. Once again, fine as is. Maneuvers Ready: Slightly slower than a swordsage. More abilities both fluff and crunchwise become slightly less focus on learning how to ready more maneuvers at once. See above Maneuvers Known: See Maneuvers Readied. It’s a slightly slower progression because you trade maneuvers for more class features, and in developing those features, they learn a few fewer maneuvers. Once again, fine as is. Stances: It seems most PrCs give you a stance at level 5. I went with that, but now I’m thinking I need to look at it, it’s earliest-entry-scenario, and the class discipline lists so they can pick up a new, higher-level stance then. I don't see a problem. Maneuver Swap: Delayed progression to increase cost, simple as that. Comes at 5th level because that seemed to be the best place, though I can’t quite explain why. Once again, fine as is. On the subject of maneuvers known, I have also been thinking of giving the Shadow Knight half-IL progression or three-fourths IL progression for non-Shadow Hand, and full for Shadow Hand. Is that too complex? / too punishing? I'd leave it alone, maybe require that half the maneuvers learned must be shadowhand. The new Maneuvers / Stances: <coming soon> Would you be interested in having this added to the tome of secrets?
StruckingFuggle 09-18-07, 12:45 PM	You know, you don't need to reply with "fine as is" a dozen times, you can just leave those out and I'll assume as such. :p (that said, thanks) Shadow Knight=How bought Night Blades? Kidney Shot=Grueling blow? Shadow Cladding=Umbral Shroud? I do like the sound of Umbral Shroud. Too much Shadow in the class, and 'cladding' is a bit awkward and using a secondary definition of the word. I'll see how it percolates through my brain for a while. I'd change the fort to good, but thats just my :twocents: Any particular reason? It's not a very fort-focused class, and nothing really suggests to me that it should be a high-fortitude class - it's mostly an evolution of the swordsage (though I imagine you could make it in with two levels of Swordsage & then whatever, like a Warblade... hrm. I don't see anything wrong with the abilities considering how few maneuvers this PrC seems to get, though another option to consider, sense it is meant for a level 7 character to get into, you might expand it to a 13 level prc and give them more maneuvers. Eh, I think I'll keep it at level 7 entry, I think. Might move it a bit earlier... I didn't notice a number of times per day (I did notice the duration however) so I'm going to assume for the time being it's at will, if thats the case I would change it to a stance unique to these guys. Shaddow Cladding / Umbral Shroud is ... well it depends on the sub-ability. The first- and fifth-level ones function constantly (so long as they're in the shadows), and the Shadowcloak is an at-will SLA. Maybe it's a bit much to have it stack with whatever stance, but on the other hand - it's an SLA as is that ends the stance to cast, so you can take it in to combat, but if it gets dispelled (by light or magic) it takes a lot to get it up again, and it's suppressed if they get you in the light. Maybe I'll scale back some of the bonuses, like the extra speed boost, but I don't think it should be a stance. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I did find the description a little confusing at first, you might want to reword it a little. (course it could be because I'm tired.) A big part of that is my failure to word it well. It's one of those areas where I really fail at my techspeak checks. Basically, when you use Shadow Jaunt (or any of its upgrades), you can cover Distance X. Now then, with Partial Jaunt, you can instead cover Distance Y (so long as Y<X) in your teleport, and then move up to distance X-Y as normal movement. This movement is a part of the same action as the teleport (move for shadow jaunt, up to swift for shadow blink), but it counts against your movement you can make in a round, up to your max Jaunt distance of X ... and you can pounce at the end of that movement, instead of when you end your Jaunt. For example, if you have a 40' base move speed, and your foe is inside a 5' 'no teleport' bubble 20' away, you could teleport 15', move 5', and shadow pounce him. However: If you haven't moved yet: for your first move action of movement, you can move 35' feet, rather than 40'. If you've already moved: you could only cover those 5' of distance if you hadn't moved your full allotted distance with the move action(s) you took. More clear? I'd change it to you can only target a single enemy once a round. The reason it gets more uses as time goes on is so that you can pounce from one enemy to the next in a flurry of pouncey blows. Hm. I think what it needs is it to be clearly stated that you can interrupt a full-attack sequence with further jaunts, but further / later attacks are made at your lower, secondary / tertiary / etc attack bonuses. For example, Bob The Shadow Knight has a BAB of 16 ( 16/11/6/1 ) ... On his round: Standard Action: Shadow Jaunts up to Dave, attacks him at +16, then Move Action: Shadow (whatever, I forget)s to Mark, attacks him twice, once at +11 and once at +6, then Swift Action: Shadow Blinks to Squishy The Wizard and attacks him at +1. And having taken a Standard, Move, and Swift action, his turn ends. Is how it's intended, at high levels, if you want to use three maneuvers to do that. I'd say Kill it Any particular reason other than "something needs to go and frankly it's the thing that is the most expendable"? Nah, -10 is enough. Glad to have some opinion on it, but barring an argument for why (no offense intended), I think it's the sort of thing that I'd need to see how it goes in playtesting. Go with your nerf. I think I may combine the two. Make it a free bluff instead of an automatic feint, but maybe a bonus if they pull it off - since a free feint is a bit not much for a maneuver you get at that high a level. I have trouble understanding the ability, it seems like a lot. Okay. Bob is now a level Level 10 Shadow Knight, and in a Shadow Hand or Setting Sun stance. Dave attacks him, and Bob think "nuh-uh"... so instead of initiating a prepared counter, Bob uses Warp Counter as an immediate action. Dave rolls his attack, and then instead of checking it vs. his AC, Bob rolls a reflex save, with DC = Dave's attack roll. If he loses: he gets attacked as normal and is out an immediate action. If he succeeds: Dave counts as attacking Bob, but instead of Bob being hit, he can lose a prepared maneuver to <teleport> to any other square to which he has LoE and from which he threatens Dave (and can as a part of this action change his stance to any Shadow Hand stance he knows). Bob can then make a single attack (rather than a full suite of attacks via Shadow Pounce) against Dave at his highest BAB, and Dave is flat-footed against this attack. For this attack, the threat range of Bob's weapon is +1 (stacking with Keen or Improved Critical, but not multiplied by either). If you drop your foe with this ability, you have a swift action on your next round, even though you used an immediate action this round. Finally, if Bob is in some sort of shadow, he can as a nonaction make a hide check at -15. Would you be interested in having this added to the tome of secrets? It's not really magic, and it's still a work in progress, but sure, go ahead!
Sleepwalker13666 09-18-07, 09:18 PM	You know, you don't need to reply with "fine as is" a dozen times, you can just leave those out and I'll assume as such. :p (that said, thanks) Yeah About half way through that I figured it seemed a little redundant, but I wanted to at least acknowledge I looked over it. I do like the sound of Umbral Shroud. Too much Shadow in the class, and 'cladding' is a bit awkward and using a secondary definition of the word. I'll see how it percolates through my brain for a while. Cool, Any particular reason? It's not a very fort-focused class, and nothing really suggests to me that it should be a high-fortitude class - it's mostly an evolution of the swordsage (though I imagine you could make it in with two levels of Swordsage & then whatever, like a Warblade... hrm. It seemed more combat oriented than the swordsage to me, which I feel would justify upping the fort, but either way is really okay. Eh, I think I'll keep it at level 7 entry, I think. Might move it a bit earlier... Oh I meant make the PrC 13 levels, there are a few out there that are odd numbers like that, not 13th level entry. Shaddow Cladding / Umbral Shroud is ... well it depends on the sub-ability. The first- and fifth-level ones function constantly (so long as they're in the shadows), and the Shadowcloak is an at-will SLA. Maybe it's a bit much to have it stack with whatever stance, but on the other hand - it's an SLA as is that ends the stance to cast, so you can take it in to combat, but if it gets dispelled (by light or magic) it takes a lot to get it up again, and it's suppressed if they get you in the light. Maybe I'll scale back some of the bonuses, like the extra speed boost, but I don't think it should be a stance. I'm a little more awake now, taking a second look, I think as you suggested, simply scaling it back a bit would all that would be needed. A big part of that is my failure to word it well. It's one of those areas where I really fail at my techspeak checks. Basically, when you use Shadow Jaunt (or any of its upgrades), you can cover Distance X. Now then, with Partial Jaunt, you can instead cover Distance Y (so long as Y<X) in your teleport, and then move up to distance X-Y as normal movement. This movement is a part of the same action as the teleport (move for shadow jaunt, up to swift for shadow blink), but it counts against your movement you can make in a round, up to your max Jaunt distance of X ... and you can pounce at the end of that movement, instead of when you end your Jaunt. For example, if you have a 40' base move speed, and your foe is inside a 5' 'no teleport' bubble 20' away, you could teleport 15', move 5', and shadow pounce him. However: If you haven't moved yet: for your first move action of movement, you can move 35' feet, rather than 40'. If you've already moved: you could only cover those 5' of distance if you hadn't moved your full allotted distance with the move action(s) you took. More clear? [/QUOTE] definitly. The reason it gets more uses as time goes on is so that you can pounce from one enemy to the next in a flurry of pouncey blows. Hm. I think what it needs is it to be clearly stated that you can interrupt a full-attack sequence with further jaunts, but further / later attacks are made at your lower, secondary / tertiary / etc attack bonuses. For example, Bob The Shadow Knight has a BAB of 16 ( 16/11/6/1 ) ... On his round: Standard Action: Shadow Jaunts up to Dave, attacks him at +16, then Move Action: Shadow (whatever, I forget)s to Mark, attacks him twice, once at +11 and once at +6, then Swift Action: Shadow Blinks to Squishy The Wizard and attacks him at +1. And having taken a Standard, Move, and Swift action, his turn ends. Is how it's intended, at high levels, if you want to use three maneuvers to do that. It seems more clear and balanced today. Any particular reason other than "something needs to go and frankly it's the thing that is the most expendable"? Eh part of it, you had already expressed that you may be dropping it, and it wouldn't hurt the class any to lose it. Glad to have some opinion on it, but barring an argument for why (no offense intended), I think it's the sort of thing that I'd need to see how it goes in playtesting. By all means,, playtesting is always a good choice. I think I may combine the two. Make it a free bluff instead of an automatic feint, but maybe a bonus if they pull it off - since a free feint is a bit not much for a maneuver you get at that high a level. Might be more fitting. Okay. Bob is now a level Level 10 Shadow Knight, and in a Shadow Hand or Setting Sun stance. Dave attacks him, and Bob think "nuh-uh"... so instead of initiating a prepared counter, Bob uses Warp Counter as an immediate action. Dave rolls his attack, and then instead of checking it vs. his AC, Bob rolls a reflex save, with DC = Dave's attack roll. If he loses: he gets attacked as normal and is out an immediate action. If he succeeds: Dave counts as attacking Bob, but instead of Bob being hit, he can lose a prepared maneuver to <teleport> to any other square to which he has LoE and from which he threatens Dave (and can as a part of this action change his stance to any Shadow Hand stance he knows). Bob can then make a single attack (rather than a full suite of attacks via Shadow Pounce) against Dave at his highest BAB, and Dave is flat-footed against this attack. For this attack, the threat range of Bob's weapon is +1 (stacking with Keen or Improved Critical, but not multiplied by either). If you drop your foe with this ability, you have a swift action on your next round, even though you used an immediate action this round. Finally, if Bob is in some sort of shadow, he can as a nonaction make a hide check at -15. Either you cleared it up or I was really tired last night, it makes perfect sense today and I like it. It's not really magic, and it's still a work in progress, but sure, go ahead! The Tome of Secrets also has a "Blade Magic" section for ToB stuff. :D
StruckingFuggle 09-19-07, 06:26 PM	Oh I meant make the PrC 13 levels, there are a few out there that are odd numbers like that, not 13th level entry. I know what you meant by that. :) And I still like it as 10 levels long, though I am thinking about bumping it back to 6th level entry instead of 7th level. Eh part of it, you had already expressed that you may be dropping it, and it wouldn't hurt the class any to lose it. And poof. It's gone. The Tome of Secrets also has a "Blade Magic" section for ToB stuff. :D Go ahead and include it. :) Made a few changes & clarifications, the significant ones being the loss of the 'Slayer' ability Thinking about: *Bumping back Kidney Shot & Adaptive Assassin so it's less front-loaded. As it is, to take the first two levels you just lose one maneuver known, lose a bit of will save, and delay learning a new readied one by a level. Gasp. Oh yeah, and I can't find a good pic for the class. A (digital) cookie to anyone who can fix this! :)
Sleepwalker13666 09-19-07, 06:51 PM	http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h57/Sleepwalker13666/Anime/nasshiki.jpg It's Shiki (bust form) from Samurai Showdown, but it might fit.
OneWinged4ngel 09-23-07, 03:06 AM	Welp, I had an AIM conversation over this class with you, and pointed out a coupla issues. Just to summarize some of the main points for the benefit of people here... Just a few things that came to mind as I initially skimmed it... Shadow Cladding (su): The Shadow Knight is even more at home in the darkness than a traditional follower of the path of the Shadow Hand, and can tease protection from the plane of Shadow. At first level, the Shadow Knight gains a +4 circumstance bonus to hide and move silently checks. At 5th level, a Shadow Knight adds 10% to the miss chance he gains from any concealment, and gains a 25% miss chance after using any effect with the <teleportation> descriptor. This miss chance lasts until the beginning of his next turn. Blur is 20%, so for the sake of staying with the norm 25% should probably be kicked down that little notch. At 8th level, the Shadow Knight may gain raise a Shadow Cloak, wrapping him in protective tendrils of shadow. This is a spell-like ability, useable at will, that grants him concealment, a +6 circumstance bonus to hide and move silently checks, and an additional 10’ added to his speed bonus. This effect lasts for 1 round / level, and has a caster level equal to ½ his initiator level. In addition to being suppressed where the other benefits of Shadow Cladding would be, this effect is automatically dispelled within the radius of a spell with the <Light> descriptor of 5rd level 5rd? :rolleyes: or higher or in natural daylight. Casting Shadow Cloak ends the effects of your current stance (although you may assume it again as a swift action as normal). These effects are suppressed in the radius of a spell with the <Light> descriptor of 3rd level or higher, or within the radius of illumination (but not shadow illumination) from a light source. Darkvision (su): At level 1, the Shadow Knight either gains Darkvision to 15’ or his natural darkvision extends by 5’. At levels 4, 7, and 10, this distance increases by 15’ if he got +15’ at first level, or 5’ if he got +5’. These numbers work strangely, and really, it should just be +15' regardless of existing abilities. Otherwise, you actually get HIGHER darkvision if you *don't have it already* unless your darkvision already exceeds 40 feet. Lame. Change it. Partial Jaunt: Whenever he initiates the Shadow Jaunt maneuver and does not move its full distance, he may as a part of the same action after the jaunt move up to half his move speed as a normal move, although this counts against the movement he may normally make a round and may not exceed the distance he could teleport using Shadow Jaunt. Wording sucks. Clarify. Maneuvers: At each even-numbered level, you gain one new maneuver known from the Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, or Shadow Hand disciplines. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisites to learn it. You add your full Shadow Knight levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known. At second level, and every four levels thereafter, you may ready an additional maneuver. This advancement does not allow you to swap lower-level maneuvers for higher ones at any point. Stances Known: At 5th level, the Shadow Knight learns a new martial stance from the Setting Sun or Shadow Hand discipline. You must meet a stance’s prerequisites to learn it. AC Bonus (su): When wearing no more than light armor and while no more than lightly encumbered, the Shadow Knight gains a +1 bonus to AC and +1 competence bonus to reflex saves against effects he is aware of. This bonus increases by 1 for every three Shadow Knight levels thereafter (+2 at 5th, and +3 at 8th level). This bonus applies to his normal and touch AC, but is suppressed in areas of magical light or bright illumination. He retains this bonus even when he would lose his dexterity bonus. Kidney Shot: At level 2, before making a normal melee attack roll, a Shadow Knight may declare his next attack to be a Kidney Shot. A foe damaged by a Kidney Shot must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to taking damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is drops everything held, can only take a single move action or standard action on his turns, takes a -2 penalty to AC and attack rolls, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC. Using this ability ends the effect of your current stance, even if the attempt is unsuccessful. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this effect, and this attack may only be made as a melee attack with a Shadow Hand weapon. The effects persist until the same point on the initiative list next turn, and can be remedied by anything effect that would remove the Stunned status. The Shadow Knight cannot use this ability on the same round he Initiates a strike, although it may be combined with boosts. Dumb name. Also, it should just say "creatures immune to critical effects" instead of listing all those types. No need for redundancy, especially with the possibility of exceptions! Also, this works with all normal attacks, so there's never a reason NOT to use it, and it has some nasty effects. Also, making it get removed by healing stun is counterintuitive... should pick something more fitting and consistent with similar abilities. Speed Boost: At 3rd level, a Shadow Knight gains a 5’ bonus to his land speed, and the distance he may travel with the Shadow Jaunt maneuver is also increased by the same bonus. A Shadow Knight in heavier than lighter armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. This bonus increases by 5’ for every three Shadow Knight levels thereafter (+10’ at 6th level, +15’ at 9th level). Adaptive Assassin (ex): If a Shadow Knight reduces a foe who poses a direct and immediate threat to him or his allies to 0 hp or below with a strike from one of the Shadow Knight disciplines and while using a Shadow Hand weapon, he may instantly ready 1d3 maneuvers. These maneuvers must be two levels below the max maneuver level he can Initiate or lower. However, if you have already initiated a specific maneuver this round and recover it with Adaptive Assassin, you may not initiate it again until your next round. Shadow Pounce (ex): Whenever a Shadow Knight moves via an effect with the [teleportation] descriptor on his turn, he may make a special full attack immediately afterwards; however he takes a -5 penalty to his BAB for each attack he has already made on his turn. He may never make more attacks a turn with this ability than he could with a normal full attack. At 6th level, so long as he could make at least two attacks, he may forgo all other attacks he is entitled to in the round to initiate a strike from a Shadow Knight discipline with an initiation action of a standard action that does not require additional movement, made with the attack bonus of his next attack. At 8th level, the Shadow Knight may delay these attacks until after he makes normal movement with the Partial Jaunt ability. The Shadow Knight may use this ability once per round at 4th level, twice per round at 6th level, three times per round at 8th level, and unlimited times per round at 10th level. Maneuver Swap: At 5th level, the Shadow Knight may choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one he already knows. He can choose a new maneuver of any level he likes, so long as he observes his restriction on highest-level the maneuvers he knows; he need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level." One Shadow One Blade: upon reaching 5th level, the Shadow Knight may pick a single light or one-handed finessable weapon that he is proficient with. This weapon is now considered to be a Shadow Hand weapon for the purposes of all feats, maneuvers, and class abilities that the Shadow Knight has that require using a chosen weapon of the Shadow Hand discipline. Lurk (ex): At 6th level, a Shadow Knight can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a Shadow Knight can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow. Additionally, after using any effect with the [teleportation] descriptor and provided he’s in some sort of shadow, a Shadow Knight may make a hide check as a free action at a -10 penalty. Flickering Shadows (su): The Shadow Knight’s AC bonus is doubled against attacks where the attacker has taken a penalty to his attack bonus, and takes only half the bonus damage from the Power Attack feat. He must be aware of the attack and, unlike the AC Bonus, gaining his Dexterity modifier to AC to gain the benefits of this ability. Damage taken from a successful attack the Shadow Knight gains extra AC from due to this ability is halved unless the attack was a critical hit. Doubles up the penalty for Power Attack users, and it's strange to just target one feat. Weird things like "Power Attack gets penalized, but Greater Power Attack with Shock Trooper is fine" is just lame. Power Attack is already penalized enough by further increasing the AC for a guy who's already tough to hit. Assassins’ Strike: at 8(?)th level, you may swap a maneuver of 4th level or higher that you know and learn Assassin’s Strike in its place. Shadow Adept (ex): Upon reaching 9th level you may initiate a strike from a Shadow Knight discipline with an initiation action of one standard action or less (although you may not make any additional movement) at any time you are entitled to make a single attack, but not while taking a full-attack action. To use this ability, you must be in a Shadow Knight stance and using a Shadow Hand weapon. Okay, Shadow Adept is just cheesebait. SERIOUS cheesebait. Reasons already explained. Fix it. Superior Darkvision (su): At 10th level, the Shadow Knight’s darkvision becomes so acute, and his connection to the shadows so powerful, that his darkvision allows him to see into magical darkness to the distance of his Darkvision as if it were shadowy illumination, so long as the spell level is less than 1+ 1/3 his initiator level (rounding up) or the caster level of the Darkness is less than his initiator level. Warp Counter (ex): Upon reaching 10th level, the Shadow Knight learns how to bend the shadows to his defense and masters his Shadow Pounce ability. As immediate action, when he is in a Shadow Hand or Setting Sun stance and struck by a melee attack in combat, he may make a reflex save opposing your foe’s attack roll. If this save is successful, he may expend a readied maneuver to instantly and without provoking AoOs move to any square to which he has Line of Effect and from which he threatens the same foe. Their attack misses, and he may make a single attack against the foe, at his highest BAB. The foe is considered flat-footed against this attack, and the Shadow Knight’s threat range for the weapon he wields is increased by 1 (this effect stacks with Keen and Improved Critical, but is not doubled by it). If the foe is dropped to 0hp or below by this attack, his swift action for the next round is not consumed by using this ability. As a part of using this ability, he may change his stance to any Shadow Hand stance he knows. Finally, after making this attack and provided he is entitled to his benefits from Shadow Cladding, he may make a hide check at a -5 penalty. Overall, some cool ideas. Good luck with finishin' up and tweaking the PrC.