New Pirate Prestige Class (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

New Pirate Prestige Class (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrawlingChaos
02-27-08, 11:14 AM Im thinking about adding this prestige class in my campain. The only other pirate prestige that I know of is in Song and Silence, and it actually focus more on the role of a (eventually) very famous pirate captain, but not on the role of the skilled warrios that populated those ships.
This seemed like a problem to me. Of course, back on the Song and Silence days, we still didn't have the goodness of the Complete Warrior and the Swashbuckler class, which can almost by itself fit that pirate-warrior role. Light armored and light weapon user, with a good dodge and some luck, the swashbuckler could resemble the way a pirate actually fought, but something is missing.
A pirate is far from a respectable fighter, using dirt tricks and resources to win a hand to hand fight, which is something the swashbuckler does not portray.

Now, with the advent of the Complete Scoundrel, I finally think we can get to a good pirate-like melee fighter.
My idea was to mix some goodies from the Swashbuckler class with some goodies from the Rogue and add some spicing from the tricks and feats that CoSc. brings to us.

I am posting my results here. I used material from CoWar, CoSc and the old pirate class from Song and Silence. If you have these books you will understand more easily what I will be talking about. Due to copyright reasons, I wont be posting the descriptions for the feats and class features present on the books that I used. I will, however, provide a quick reference to where these goodies come from, so that you can check them.

Here is the Pirate, scourge of the sea and dirty cutthroat:

The Pirate (bad name, I know)
Reqs.
Non-Lawful Ali.
Bab + 6
Sneak Attack +2, Insightful Strike, Grace +1
Skills: : Sleight of Hands 5 ranks, Profession (sailor) 6 ranks, Swim 5 ranks, Use Rope 5 ranks.

Hit Die: D10.
Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Pick Pocket (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hands (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Lvl Bab Fort Ref Will Goodies
1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Improved Daring Outlaw, Concealed Weapon Attack + 1d6
2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Fearsome Reputation +2
3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Trick: Hidden Blade, Rope Swing
4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Fearsome Reputation +4, Resourceful Concealment (+2)
5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Concealed Weapon Attack + 2d6, Shifting Deck.
6 +6 +2 +5 +2 Fearsome Reputation +6, Resourceful Concealment (+ 4)
7 +7 +2 +5 +2 Trick: Sudden Draw
8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Fearsome Reputation +8, Resourceful Concealment (+ 6)
9 +9 +3 +6 +3 Concealed Weapon Attack + 3d6.
10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Numbing Critical, Pirate Luck.

Improved Daring Outlaw: Like the CoSc feat, but the pirate levels also add up.
Concealed weapon attack: Like a sneak attack, but can only be done with a weapon previously concealed with a succesful use of Sleight of Hands.
Fearsome Reputation: Copied from the other pirate class from Song and Silence
Trick: Hidden Blade: From CoSc
Rope Swing: From Song and Silence (the other pirate prestige class there)
Shifting Deck:From Song and Silence (the other pirate prestige class there)
Resourceful Concealment: Competence bonus for use of Sleight of Hand to conceal a weapon.
Trick: Sudden Draw: From CoSc
Numbing Critical: Like similars features on the Swashbuckler class in CoWar, except this one takes dex. away from the opponent.
Pirate Luck: Like the Luck feature of the Swashbuckler, but reversed. i.e. you ask the DM to reroll a good roll from your enemies, once per day.

That's it. Also, I should mention that the damage from Concealed Weapon Attack fully adds with Sneak Attack damage and that Pirate Luck can add up with the Swashbuckler Luck.

So, what do you guys think? a workable class?

PS: I had posted this before, but on the wrong forum. Let's see if this get's some love, now.
Cartigan
02-27-08, 02:35 PM I think you are referencing the Dread Pirate (updated in Complete Adventurer I believe)

And Concealed Weapon seems excessively limiting, only works on a "concealed weapon." So not only must you be flanking or have the opponent off balance, but you have to have a weapon concealed on your person. That's ok in combination with that feat (or skill trick) that lets you draw a concealed weapon and attack at once throwing your opponent off balance. But all this only works once. How many weapons are you going to hide?

And why have this and "Improved Daring Outlaw" (which needs a cooler name) because with or without Concealed Weapon Attack, you are going to have to use the same feat to get bonus dice to sneak attack.

And a class limited to a specific multiclass - in this case Rogue(Ninja/Spellthief)/Swashbuckler - is kind of sketchy.
CrawlingChaos
02-27-08, 05:23 PM I think you are referencing the Dread Pirate (updated in Complete Adventurer I believe)

Yes, you are right. The only other Pirate class that I know about is the Dread Pirate, originally published in Song and Silence. If pay close atention to that class, however, you will see that it is designed to be a captain of a pirate ship. It feels lacking if the player wants to be pirate-like adventurer, but not actually own a ship and command a crew.

And Concealed Weapon seems excessively limiting, only works on a "concealed weapon." So not only must you be flanking or have the opponent off balance, but you have to have a weapon concealed on your person. That's ok in combination with that feat (or skill trick) that lets you draw a concealed weapon and attack at once throwing your opponent off balance. But all this only works once. How many weapons are you going to hide?

And why have this and "Improved Daring Outlaw" (which needs a cooler name) because with or without Concealed Weapon Attack, you are going to have to use the same feat to get bonus dice to sneak attack.

The trick that lets you pull a concealed weapon and strike is included in the class. And it only works once.. per weapon. Don't forget that, being a pirate, you should be playing like a scoundrel so I guess the player would keep a lot of hidden weapons and surprises. If you take a look on Complete Scoundrel, there is actually a lot of "hidden" kind of weapons for you to conceal in you equipment. So I guess the asnwear to "how many weapons one would keep concealed?" is: quite a lot.
This class gives the player a full progression on the sneak attack damage (through the Improved Daring Outlaw feat at level 1 and gives Concealed Weapon Damage as an addition to the sneak attack dices. Yes, it could be quite limiting, but it is meant to be that way, otherwise it would give more sneak attack damage then the full rogue progression.

And a class limited to a specific multiclass - in this case Rogue(Ninja/Spellthief)/Swashbuckler - is kind of sketchy.

There are a dozen of Prestige Classes limited to a very slim selection of classes. The Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty much just for bards +druids. The Arcane Hierophant is pretty much just for wizards/sorc + druids. Just open any splat book, you will see that most prestige classes there are for a limited number of base classes. That's how it works.

Also, how would one represent a pirate, otherwise? Pure Swashbuckler should not be enough, since they dont have any kind of treacherous class feature. The rogue should not be enough, either. A pirate, as I see it, is actually a mix between a swashbuckler and a rogue. I suppose I could adapt it to make it possible to other classes, too.. but I think it would remove some of the flavor from it.
Cartigan
02-27-08, 05:47 PM The trick that lets you pull a concealed weapon and strike is included in the class. And it only works once.. per weapon. Don't forget that, being a pirate, you should be playing like a scoundrel so I guess the player would keep a lot of hidden weapons and surprises. If you take a look on Complete Scoundrel, there is actually a lot of "hidden" kind of weapons for you to conceal in you equipment. So I guess the asnwear to "how many weapons one would keep concealed?" is: quite a lot.
This class gives the player a full progression on the sneak attack damage (through the Improved Daring Outlaw feat at level 1 and gives Concealed Weapon Damage as an addition to the sneak attack dices. Yes, it could be quite limiting, but it is meant to be that way, otherwise it would give more sneak attack damage then the full rogue progression.
Then the Concealed Weapon thing is not only restrictive but redundant. You already have SA progression then you add a minor SA stack skill that is even more restrictive? Since that skill trick puts your opponent off balance, you will always get Sneak Attack if you succeed - and thus this ability. You are pretty much doubling their sneak attack progression. Why not add something else based on concealed weaponry?

There are a dozen of Prestige Classes limited to a very slim selection of classes. The Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty much just for bards +druids. The Arcane Hierophant is pretty much just for wizards/sorc + druids. Just open any splat book, you will see that most prestige classes there are for a limited number of base classes. That's how it works.
You make a point, but I can't think of alot that really limits it to a specific class combination (not just a single class as a requirement). Other than the Lyrist.

Also, how would one represent a pirate, otherwise? Pure Swashbuckler should not be enough, since they dont have any kind of treacherous class feature. The rogue should not be enough, either. A pirate, as I see it, is actually a mix between a swashbuckler and a rogue. I suppose I could adapt it to make it possible to other classes, too.. but I think it would remove some of the flavor from it.
x ranks in balance, profession(sailing), use rope, swim
some feats I could think of later. Combat Expertise? Combat Reflexes?

And you are taking most of the things that make the Dread Pirate designed to be captain of a ship instead of branching off into something really unique anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrawlingChaos 02-27-08, 11:14 AM	Im thinking about adding this prestige class in my campain. The only other pirate prestige that I know of is in Song and Silence, and it actually focus more on the role of a (eventually) very famous pirate captain, but not on the role of the skilled warrios that populated those ships. This seemed like a problem to me. Of course, back on the Song and Silence days, we still didn't have the goodness of the Complete Warrior and the Swashbuckler class, which can almost by itself fit that pirate-warrior role. Light armored and light weapon user, with a good dodge and some luck, the swashbuckler could resemble the way a pirate actually fought, but something is missing. A pirate is far from a respectable fighter, using dirt tricks and resources to win a hand to hand fight, which is something the swashbuckler does not portray. Now, with the advent of the Complete Scoundrel, I finally think we can get to a good pirate-like melee fighter. My idea was to mix some goodies from the Swashbuckler class with some goodies from the Rogue and add some spicing from the tricks and feats that CoSc. brings to us. I am posting my results here. I used material from CoWar, CoSc and the old pirate class from Song and Silence. If you have these books you will understand more easily what I will be talking about. Due to copyright reasons, I wont be posting the descriptions for the feats and class features present on the books that I used. I will, however, provide a quick reference to where these goodies come from, so that you can check them. Here is the Pirate, scourge of the sea and dirty cutthroat: The Pirate (bad name, I know) Reqs. Non-Lawful Ali. Bab + 6 Sneak Attack +2, Insightful Strike, Grace +1 Skills: : Sleight of Hands 5 ranks, Profession (sailor) 6 ranks, Swim 5 ranks, Use Rope 5 ranks. Hit Die: D10. Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Pick Pocket (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hands (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex). Lvl Bab Fort Ref Will Goodies 1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Improved Daring Outlaw, Concealed Weapon Attack + 1d6 2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Fearsome Reputation +2 3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Trick: Hidden Blade, Rope Swing 4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Fearsome Reputation +4, Resourceful Concealment (+2) 5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Concealed Weapon Attack + 2d6, Shifting Deck. 6 +6 +2 +5 +2 Fearsome Reputation +6, Resourceful Concealment (+ 4) 7 +7 +2 +5 +2 Trick: Sudden Draw 8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Fearsome Reputation +8, Resourceful Concealment (+ 6) 9 +9 +3 +6 +3 Concealed Weapon Attack + 3d6. 10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Numbing Critical, Pirate Luck. Improved Daring Outlaw: Like the CoSc feat, but the pirate levels also add up. Concealed weapon attack: Like a sneak attack, but can only be done with a weapon previously concealed with a succesful use of Sleight of Hands. Fearsome Reputation: Copied from the other pirate class from Song and Silence Trick: Hidden Blade: From CoSc Rope Swing: From Song and Silence (the other pirate prestige class there) Shifting Deck:From Song and Silence (the other pirate prestige class there) Resourceful Concealment: Competence bonus for use of Sleight of Hand to conceal a weapon. Trick: Sudden Draw: From CoSc Numbing Critical: Like similars features on the Swashbuckler class in CoWar, except this one takes dex. away from the opponent. Pirate Luck: Like the Luck feature of the Swashbuckler, but reversed. i.e. you ask the DM to reroll a good roll from your enemies, once per day. That's it. Also, I should mention that the damage from Concealed Weapon Attack fully adds with Sneak Attack damage and that Pirate Luck can add up with the Swashbuckler Luck. So, what do you guys think? a workable class? PS: I had posted this before, but on the wrong forum. Let's see if this get's some love, now.
Cartigan 02-27-08, 02:35 PM	I think you are referencing the Dread Pirate (updated in Complete Adventurer I believe) And Concealed Weapon seems excessively limiting, only works on a "concealed weapon." So not only must you be flanking or have the opponent off balance, but you have to have a weapon concealed on your person. That's ok in combination with that feat (or skill trick) that lets you draw a concealed weapon and attack at once throwing your opponent off balance. But all this only works once. How many weapons are you going to hide? And why have this and "Improved Daring Outlaw" (which needs a cooler name) because with or without Concealed Weapon Attack, you are going to have to use the same feat to get bonus dice to sneak attack. And a class limited to a specific multiclass - in this case Rogue(Ninja/Spellthief)/Swashbuckler - is kind of sketchy.
CrawlingChaos 02-27-08, 05:23 PM	I think you are referencing the Dread Pirate (updated in Complete Adventurer I believe) Yes, you are right. The only other Pirate class that I know about is the Dread Pirate, originally published in Song and Silence. If pay close atention to that class, however, you will see that it is designed to be a captain of a pirate ship. It feels lacking if the player wants to be pirate-like adventurer, but not actually own a ship and command a crew. And Concealed Weapon seems excessively limiting, only works on a "concealed weapon." So not only must you be flanking or have the opponent off balance, but you have to have a weapon concealed on your person. That's ok in combination with that feat (or skill trick) that lets you draw a concealed weapon and attack at once throwing your opponent off balance. But all this only works once. How many weapons are you going to hide? And why have this and "Improved Daring Outlaw" (which needs a cooler name) because with or without Concealed Weapon Attack, you are going to have to use the same feat to get bonus dice to sneak attack. The trick that lets you pull a concealed weapon and strike is included in the class. And it only works once.. per weapon. Don't forget that, being a pirate, you should be playing like a scoundrel so I guess the player would keep a lot of hidden weapons and surprises. If you take a look on Complete Scoundrel, there is actually a lot of "hidden" kind of weapons for you to conceal in you equipment. So I guess the asnwear to "how many weapons one would keep concealed?" is: quite a lot. This class gives the player a full progression on the sneak attack damage (through the Improved Daring Outlaw feat at level 1 and gives Concealed Weapon Damage as an addition to the sneak attack dices. Yes, it could be quite limiting, but it is meant to be that way, otherwise it would give more sneak attack damage then the full rogue progression. And a class limited to a specific multiclass - in this case Rogue(Ninja/Spellthief)/Swashbuckler - is kind of sketchy. There are a dozen of Prestige Classes limited to a very slim selection of classes. The Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty much just for bards +druids. The Arcane Hierophant is pretty much just for wizards/sorc + druids. Just open any splat book, you will see that most prestige classes there are for a limited number of base classes. That's how it works. Also, how would one represent a pirate, otherwise? Pure Swashbuckler should not be enough, since they dont have any kind of treacherous class feature. The rogue should not be enough, either. A pirate, as I see it, is actually a mix between a swashbuckler and a rogue. I suppose I could adapt it to make it possible to other classes, too.. but I think it would remove some of the flavor from it.
Cartigan 02-27-08, 05:47 PM	The trick that lets you pull a concealed weapon and strike is included in the class. And it only works once.. per weapon. Don't forget that, being a pirate, you should be playing like a scoundrel so I guess the player would keep a lot of hidden weapons and surprises. If you take a look on Complete Scoundrel, there is actually a lot of "hidden" kind of weapons for you to conceal in you equipment. So I guess the asnwear to "how many weapons one would keep concealed?" is: quite a lot. This class gives the player a full progression on the sneak attack damage (through the Improved Daring Outlaw feat at level 1 and gives Concealed Weapon Damage as an addition to the sneak attack dices. Yes, it could be quite limiting, but it is meant to be that way, otherwise it would give more sneak attack damage then the full rogue progression. Then the Concealed Weapon thing is not only restrictive but redundant. You already have SA progression then you add a minor SA stack skill that is even more restrictive? Since that skill trick puts your opponent off balance, you will always get Sneak Attack if you succeed - and thus this ability. You are pretty much doubling their sneak attack progression. Why not add something else based on concealed weaponry? There are a dozen of Prestige Classes limited to a very slim selection of classes. The Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty much just for bards +druids. The Arcane Hierophant is pretty much just for wizards/sorc + druids. Just open any splat book, you will see that most prestige classes there are for a limited number of base classes. That's how it works. You make a point, but I can't think of alot that really limits it to a specific class combination (not just a single class as a requirement). Other than the Lyrist. Also, how would one represent a pirate, otherwise? Pure Swashbuckler should not be enough, since they dont have any kind of treacherous class feature. The rogue should not be enough, either. A pirate, as I see it, is actually a mix between a swashbuckler and a rogue. I suppose I could adapt it to make it possible to other classes, too.. but I think it would remove some of the flavor from it. x ranks in balance, profession(sailing), use rope, swim some feats I could think of later. Combat Expertise? Combat Reflexes? And you are taking most of the things that make the Dread Pirate designed to be captain of a ship instead of branching off into something really unique anyway.